Belluavir

If I have a virus, destruction of that virus is preferable to me. Your proposition is not universal and your 'should' does not logically follow.

Christians are persecuted minority don't ya know

They're also only 'plus sized' when compared to ridiculous and vain womens clothing sizes, not compared to women who are obese. They dont have guts that hang over their knickers, they dont have cellulite, they are mobile, etc. I doubt you would ever see these 'plus sized' women sitting in McDonald's scarfing down three big mac combos. If you have eaten so much that you cannot walk anymore, can hardly breathe and are so addicted to food its pretty much all you think about, you are not beautiful, you are revolting and pitiable.

I am guessing there wont be too many lawful evils in this group

Does anyone know if he or his wife beat their children? If not then he is considerably less evil than the vast majority of the worlds population who do or would.

In this scenario you've got a robot body. The robot wouldn't consume as many resources as a human and wouldn't have the capacity to over induldge in resource consumption. There is plenty of energy from the sun and in radioactive materials lying around and likely the reduced need for farming would be postive for the environment. Socially I wonder how this would work. Suicide is quite frowned upon in our society, not taking the immortality option if it's available to you would be tantamount to committing suicide. It also makes me wonder how long people would decide to live. Would I really want to live forever? Having never been faced with the option I don't know if I can honestly answer that question. I don't want to die nearly as soon as I will. But after the first couple million years, will I change my mind? How long do you think you'd want to live?

Goddamn feminism shit is infecting everything. The athiest community and now the gay community. What's going to be ruined next I wonder. Wouldn't it be more just to be disgusted by how the straight community has presented it's opinion about the existence of gays?

But all you've got is a hypothesis! You haven't done any of other other work! You certainly haven't sought to disprove it either . You're going around and around in these circles of just insisting that X is true therefore Y is also true, without having actually proven X, not even a tinge of evidence, nor a hint or a shadow. Complete, thorough, utter unsubstantiation. And there's no curiousity in this as you first claimed, no seeking answers to challenging questions, you're trying to come up with post-hoc rationalizations for what you already believe. I'm going to try to go over this again to make it more clear. 2. It's more helpful to be concise with definitions rather than using leading questions to further a point. I presented two possible definitions of creation and you make it seem like you agree with both of them. The act of making or producing something that did not exist before could fall in line with the magic based definition. 1 or more atoms which did not exist before in any way, now exist, thus they have been created. That is different than creation meaning reforming existing matter into a different shape, which again does not require consciousness. A definition that adds intent, that the matter was formed to serve a function, is a definition that necessarily requires consciousness, the other two presented above do not. 3. Jellyfish are not conscious, they have no brain, yet they eat, breath, swim around, hunt, form into collectives, reproduce. Consciousness is not a prerequisite for a living creature to perform work. 4. You've largely ignored my argument here which is frustrating. No, we don't know where the universe came from. What that means is that we don't know where the universe came from. It does not logically follow that an extreme complexity arises from nothing and is responsible for it. This proposition raises not only the same questions that its supposed to answer, but it raises quite a few new ones, what's the point? And more importantly, there's no reason to consider it as a possibility because it's based on nothing but the whimsy of a layman. 5. Nope, sorry, you've made no progress towards proving your assertions. 6. Ah so I was wrong. You know what the thing I was wrong about and what you actually meant have in common? They're completely baseless, senseless and useless. 7. Not even close. 8. You keep saying 'has to' and 'must have' but you offer no reason for this assertion. The origin of the universe is an unknown and these idle musings put us no closer to solving it. All you've done so far is restate your position. Reword some things, incorporate some language from other people's arguments, including mine, into your response without understanding what they're talking about and then just restate what you already said. This isn't curiousity, this is a tactic.

I thought minarchism was a cure for baldness since Stef had more hair when he was a minarchist. I don't know much about baldness.

Your first presupposition is that 'God' (capitalized for some reason) is a valid thing to 'search' for. You haven't defined God or even justified why you've used a singular. Not saying that these things are wrong, but it's a better starting point. 1. Can't argue with that. 2. Okay so what do you mean by creation? Is that *poof*ing things into existence that didn't exist before? Is that taking existing things and altering them to meet a particular end? Robots can do that and they don't have consciousness. 3. Or they could be robots? Biological robots programmed by abusive parents, brain frazzling drugs and oppressive education. Maybe they're not actually conscious, I mean, they walk around and they go to work and function and all that but when you try to talk to them its like talking to a chat bot. I'm not saying that this is actually the case, but its a possibility, .001% maybe. But you use the word must when this point is built upon the shaky ground of the previous point. Again, my argument here does not necessarily invalidate yours. 4. How do you know that? None of your previous points suggest that, there is no evidence that I'm aware of brought forward by the scientific community that suggests that. This point perhaps sheds some light on your definition of creation, if creation can include such things as the formation of the structures of the universe, then that certainly does not require consciousness. We understand quite a bit about how things like stars and planets and solar systems come to be, even if we can't observe them directly. We understand enough about the universe to where we can make predictive models. Some things we can test directly, some things we can observe as they happen and other things that have already happened we can still know about because of extrapolations based on our understanding which also conforms to bits and pieces of data left over from the past. From that a scientific theory is born and we can use that to make predictions about future events, and as those unfold it sheds even more light on our past. 5. This supposition is invalid, see above. 6. Consciousness does indeed exist outside of the human mind. Other animals exhibit signs of consciousness. The rest of your supposition is invalid however. I think you're fundamentally missunderstanding how the natural world functions, and that it does so without consciousness. Unlike other animals, non-living matter does not exhibit signs of consciousness. 7. This supposition is invalid, see above. 8. Agreed, but I don't get what the point of this one is. I'm kind of responding as I go here so maybe that will become more clear in the upcoming long bit. This isn't a criticism of your argument but you're example isn't very good, no one person is capable of producing a particle accelerator. I just can't see an astro physicist mining his own iron, driving his own train to his own foundry, etc. etc. etc. The Long Bit: When vastness became aware of itself? So... basically, *poof* magic, is what you're saying. Are you sure you can't see any holes in this? None of this vast paragraph has any basis. Even if your previous eight suppositions were correct, you'd still be a long way off from proposing a specific deity, you might be able to pull off some deist shit or a Joe Rogan acid trip but that's about it. You've got nothing, there's no saving this line of reasoning (if you can call it that), cut your losses and start over.

There are some furry porn games that penetrate very deeply indeed. Final Fantasy Tactics is neither indie nor new, but it has a pretty deep and interesting story (although it gets a bit too JRPGish around chapter 5). The updated translation on the PSP version overall is easier to follow and it makes a bit more sense but I enjoy the original english translations' quirks and use of the word God in place of something less controversial. Also the cut scenes are really cool, they look like stage performances. I don't know if that was intentional or because of the game's limitations, but it's cool nonetheless I think. I've thought it would be cool to do a reenactment of it.

The burden of proof for such evidence would fall upon the person making the positive claim "one ought to call the police in cases of child abuse." It being "all we've got" or the fact that it's the status quo that we're used to operating under is not sufficient. I think we can all agree on the fact that the street gang we call "the police" is a pretty monsterous organisation. Why would I want to get them involved in anything if I wasn't being compelled to do so? I could be off base but it sounds to me like fighting fire with gasoline. Roads are not sufficiently analogous. Sure the roads and the police were put in place by the same mechanism, but one is actively malevolent in and of itself and one just kinda sits there wearing out faster than it can be replaced. Sicing the government attack dogs on bad parents adds a whole new level of escalation to the situation that I'm not sure is helpful (perhaps it is, but that's where evidence needs to come into play to at least show some kind of correlation between bearucrates, the barbarians in blue and positive outcomes for children). Doing something is not necessarily a good idea, especially if we have no idea what the outcome is or if the outcome turns out to be worse than completely ignoring the problem. We're certainly not immune to the hammer and nail fallacy and I think we should be more thoughtful and cautious and less hysterical and reactionary, especially when it comes to using state institutions like gunmen and rape cages. And weren't the police called on Elliot Roger? What did they do again? Nothing? Worse than nothing, they provided a false sense of security! Hey if a bunch of thugs who failed an IQ test says he's a cool dude, then everything must be hunky-dory, right?

wtf @ #4

Thanks for sharing that. Really fucking annoying people, he's quite something to be able to keep his cool in the face of people who ask questions and expect responses but ignore the responses and continue on with their talking points.

Well the money is fictitious, the fed fictitious, the government itself is a fiction, perhaps it makes sense that she'd be really into just making a bunch of shit up to suit her own needs...

There's like what, six billion people on this planet? Do you seriously think you have to join a band of maurading barbarians to meet any of them? I have a friend who spent some time homeless, he wandered the streets and met lots of interesting people. Not saying that you have to be homeless but the point is that there are people out there, take some chances, step outside your comfort zone, just talk to somebody. And you could do all kinds of things other than become a cog in a murder machine. You could quit your job and do something completely unrelated, just for a change of pace. There is a company called C.R. England, if you've spent any time on the highway you've probably seen their trucks. They will pay for you to get a class A CDL (Commercial Drivers License) and garauntee you a job driving all across the country, no previous experience necessary (except a drivers license and a relatively clean record, no DUIs etc.), if you don't live near the training facility, they will pay for your accomodation (it takes about a month to compete). You get to travel, you make good money ($30k- $40k first year, keeps going up after that) , you get new skills, you get to meet new people. And who knows, maybe you'll love it and you'll buy your own truck and work for yourself. Or maybe you won't like it that much and you'll quit after a year or two but it'd still be a cool and different experience and you can move on to something else. That's just one example. Come on man, you can do better than this, you ARE better than this. And maybe it's the anarchist in me talking but do you seriously believe the bullshit propaganda about traveling the world and meeting people and all this great shit they promise you? I'd sooner accept a check from Newt Gingrich. You don't REALLY know what you're going to get into because there's so much bullshit surrounding it, but you do know that the military is pure fucking evil, more evil than the IRS I'd say, and that's really saying a lot. If you want to learn to survive, there's plenty of groups, classes, hobbyist organisations and the like that are around. If you want to learn to defend yourself, take up krav maga. Also if you want to make your own decisions and live life for yourself, is taking orders from the man about when you can take a shit or whatever they're gonna tell you to do really the way to go?

In this case it'd be more like the Supreme Court removing a restriction rather than adding one. Section 3 of DOMA prevents the federal government from recognising same-sex marriages, which means more people pay more tax and more people are forced to testify in court against their spouses. More importantly, in my opinion anyway, it prevents Americans from sponsoring their foreign spouse to immigrate, which keeps people apart and destroys lives and families. It's certainly doing quite a number on the lives of myself and my partner, to put things incredibly lightly. I really, really hope that the supreme court makes the right decision. I believe the oral arguments for the DOMA case are tomorrow, the audio as well as the transcript will be posted online.

I find the senses to be very valid. Your senses don't lie, only your brain can misinterepret their findings.

This is something that's been bothering me for a long time. Stef always says not to take his word for it, not to just assume that whatever he says is true and sometimes he provide citations to verify his claims. I understand why he and anyone else would do that and I'm not saying that that shouldn't be the case. But what I'm having trouble is that if I click that citation and read the article or look at the graph or whatever it may be, I now I have to take the author of that article's word for it. If I read their citations, I have to take the authors of those articles at their word and so on. If a subject is outside of my direct experience, don't I, at the end of the day, have to take someone's word for it? I understand that there is a matter of trust and I can use logic to an extent to discern truth from falsehood, but it's still the case that I have to just accept what certain people say about certain things. I find this very bothersome, while I feel like it's not quite right, I can't get it out of my mind.

I'm sorry, I took the wrong approach with this thread. My partner read through it and he pointed out that I lost track of what I actually wanted to talk about and got side track answering specific questions rather than better explaining what I'm asking for. What this thread is about is how I missed out on a lot of things growing up as a Jehovah's Witness. I was very, very isolated and I never acquired the social skills I need to actually interact with people and live a normal life, getting to do normal things that so many other people got to take part in, and what I really want is to find out what I can do to develop those social skills now so I can make up for those things that I missed out on and I can live a more normal, happy life.

Maybe Jack Herer if I had a choice. I'm not fussy though.

I agree, surely she, a young, healthy, well to do woman would be more suited to sleeping on the couch or living room floor than the children of a very poor family. I'm sure that if Kate Middleton tweeted that she needed someone to bring her a toilet brush in the next fifteen minutes, there would be a line of people with toilet brushes running out into the street, but I have a feeling that if I did the same, a tumble weed wouldn't even be fucked to blow past me in a mocking sort of way.

Weed. I'd like to try other things but that's the main one I feel bad about missing out on. I think I'd rather avoid anything too hazardous like meth, heroin or pcp. Sorry, my post was a bit rambling so I understand that things are particularly clear. I'm combining them because I feel like shit about missing out on an opportunity to have both simultaneously. I don't know when or how I'm going to be able to get either of those things, although I'm more worried about not being able to find drugs. Friends to get friends to get drugs. It's more like hoping that I'd be able to access it through someone who's my friend, I'm not sure how else to do it (relatively) safely. But I'm not going to choose friends on that basis. I'm pretty damn bored, let me tell ya! I know it's not the be all end all and I know it's not going to magically make me happy but actually getting to experience it for myself will make me feel more fulfilled and less regretful and give me some closure. I've known people who use drugs who aren't addicts and who aren't miserable. They use it sometimes because it's fun and they enjoy it or they used to use it and don't want to anymore. The options aren't 1) drug addict or 2) clean, sober, straight + narrow. Just like how sex isn't 1) aids meds for the rest of your life and unwanted octuplets or 2) eat the key to the chastity belt and tatoo on your purity ring. I know that there is a lot lacking my own life and drugs won't make up for it but it's part of it and right now I feel that it's quite a big part of it. I know from what I've been reading that as I get older it's going to get harder and harder, and I feel very anxious that I may have missed my chance and I'm worried that there's never going to be closure when there could have been, because I took the cowards way out and pushed away people who were reaching out to me becuase my parents made me fearful and hateful of other people. I let that happen, I didn't face those emotions and I wasn't honest with myself and now it's gone. It makes me sick thinking about it. If I had some good friends and I could have access to drugs, be it through friends or not, then I can move on and not feel so terrible about myself all of the time. Thanks for the other advice as well. I know about Silk Road but I'm a bit apprehensive about it. If I'm caught, that means deportation and a criminal record. They have a forum though, I'll have a browse through it. I'm quite interested in psychodelics as well. Growing things myself isn't a bad idea but my living conditions aren't stable enough for that to work and I don't know when they will be stable enough. That sort of thing doesn't work for me unfortunately, it makes me more contemplative and that generally makes me feel worse.

I've never used any drugs, not even marijauna and it's hard to explain how I feel about that. I feel jealousy, sadness, anxiety and frustration. I feel jealous because I don't have access to it and a lot of other people do. I see and hear references to it all the time, people that I know online use/have used them, my brother used marijuana, he told me about it, showed me the pipe he used, but never offered to do it with me. He told me that it's a stupid thing to do and he did XYZ stupid things while high, he wanted to protect me, I get that, but I don't need to be protected, I'm not a child and when I was, I didn't want to be one, I want to make my own decisions, not be protected by people who think they're better than me. Sorry that was a bit rambling but that thought came to mind and I thought it might be useful to run with it. The reason I feel sad is because I can't get what I want and also that I squandered an oppurtunity to get what I want, and not just drugs. In 2011 I went to college in southeast Queensland, Australia, for a year (I'm originally from the US and I'll be heading back there soon, it's a long story though I'm happy to talk about that if anyone is interested, it's just not directly relevant). There were people there who used drugs and there were people there who were really sweet and nice to talk to and who reached out to me (a few of those were the same people), and, as I have done since probably elementary school, if not earlier, I pushed them away. On one hand I felt a desire to engage with them but on the other hand I felt a very strong reluctance and I'd make up some excuse in my head not to join them for lunch or I would just outright feel afraid and give into that. I've been looking around the internet and the way that most people seem to get drugs is through their friends and I don't reallly see how to do it otherwise. Growing it isn't an option and won't be for the foreseeable future. I can't just go up to random people on the street because I don't want to be arrested and subsequently deported and even if that wasn't an issue, having a criminal record would be. I'd also be worried about just getting ripped off. That leads me to the anxiety and frustration. I don't know what to do about it and it's really getting to me, it's made especially worse by the fact that I can't even say anymore that nobody ever offered it to me, it was offered to me and I turned it down, even though it was something I really wanted. I don't think it'll ever stop hurting unless I make up for it, but I don't know how to actually accomplish that. What I'm looking for here is someone to reach out to me. I'm not a bad person, people don't avoid me or think that I'm awkward or anything. I can be funny and interesting, I can be caring and empathetic. People tend towards liking me and I tend towards feeling scared of them and trying to alienate them. I don't want to live like this anymore but now it seems like it's just fucked beyond repair, I had a perfect chance and I fucked it up and there's no more chances left. On one hand I know that can't be true but on the other hand, I don't know where another chance is. Thank you in advance to anyone who's willing to read this and offer a helping hand.