Atticas14

Thanks for the reply... Believe me I know I would regret it, but the "get even" side of me that produces absolutely nothing at all good in my life just screams to do it. Moving on hasn't been so simple to me. She keeps calling me, and I keep calling her back. I don't know what the point of continuing any relationship with her is at this point, but I haven't been able to just walk away despite having tried many a time.

For some reason quoting doesn't work at my work computer... So I hope you guys notice this response. Sorry for not responding sooner, but I've been doing better, doing the things I enjoyed before the break up. I still get angry going through scenarios in my head, about him and her, and what they might be doing now. That's a total waste of my time and brain power but sometimes I just can't help it. That was definitely apart of it. She was a friend, someone to talk to, if not about anything important or deep. She was fun to be around; and I definitely could have made more out of the relationship had I put more effort into it. Rex - "Maybe a thought experiment would be useful: If you were all powerful and could control the future, how might your future look, and would she be part of it? What do you want out of life, and what kinds of people do you want to spend it with?" If I was all powerful I would help her grow into a mature person, an independent person who could take care of herself, and she would not bend to the will of others so easily. Her new boyfriend would probably drop dead of a brain aneurism, and I would be rich and powerful and sleep with every attractive woman on the face of the earth. Kinda shallow I guess; but ultimate power ultimately corrupts and that's probably what would happen to me. Rex - "If I were you, I would take a look at all the women you've attracted, or been attracted to as an adult, and try to identify common traits. I'd then look at what those traits show me about myself, for better and for worse. I'd then take what I've learned, and trace it back to my childhood." I haven't had many girlfriends. Just two, and both relationships lasted over three years. The first girl I dated was very independent, strong willed and intelligent. The second one, which we've been discussing, is a polar opposite. There's a lot of similarities to what you described earlier. I've been attracted to a lot of girls like the second one; girls that are easily controllable, unintelligent, easily manipulated, and they typically come from abusive backgrounds. I guess that tells me that I'm not looking for someone to challenge me. I don't want to work on relationships, I just want the person to exist until I'm ready to use them for my amusement. How that relates to my childhood, I dunno. Again it could be that my model of a relationship was created by pornography; so I use women in the same manor that I use porn. Andrew - Thanks for the post. I appreciate your support. I'm not much of a ladies man, when a girl comes my way I jump on it. As stated above I'm 27 and I've only had two relationships. I don't get around many women so my selection is extremely limited. I know that's not a good excuse, but in the past I've had to make the decision to either be alone, or be with someone who really isn't compatible with me; and I've always chosen to not be alone. Thinking about my ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend abusing her. Thinking about her being happy with him but stringing me along. Thinking about her just going with the flow, letting everyone around her dictate what she should do in life. Thinking about the bad decisions she's making in life. Thinking about her letting him move in after they had only known each other for a month; thinking about them having a sexual relationship so quickly after we ended ours. About my parents, yes there was an occasional spanking. The kicking incident was an isolated thing, it's the only memory I have about my father "disciplining" me. I understand that it was less than ideal, even wrong, for them to do those things; and I know this is me trying to minimize their wrong doings, but I had it a lot better than a lot of other people out there. I'm not complaining about what they did to me. Could It have been handled better? Yes, but it wasn't and I don't see the benefit of my holding it against them. I realize it was wrong and it had a negative effect on my growing mind; but what is the end goal of me realizing all the abuses I suffered as a child? I understand that everyone here is trying to get me to realize that the abuses I suffered as a child play a large role in how I feel now, but I don't understanding how knowing that helps me overcome and mature. I don't think any relationship is without it's ups and downs. Wouldn't my parents concealing the negatives of their relationship from their children be a positive thing? I don't recall any moments where they were noticeably mad at each other or having any difficulties at all. I was never worried about the mental or physical state of my parents or their relationship. I never sensed any dysfunction, I'm just assuming their was dysfunction because every relationship has it. I'm definitely jealous of her current relationship, but I'm more worried about the lack of emotional support and growth I provided while we were together. I was just apart of the cycle of abuse she's dealt with her entire life; and I'm sorry for that. I still feel like the girl is doomed to remain in that cycle unless someone intercedes in her life. Edit: I didn't really address my relationship with my mother. She was the primary source of discipline, and support. I was homeschool from first to ninth grade, she was my teacher and was always there for me. I really don't have any complaints, or maybe I just don't know what to expect from parents.

Alright, so is this my next step? Or where should I go from here?

I've never hung out with her and the new boyfriend, but at one point I got fed up with her sneaking around and lying behind both of our backs. I waited at the dudes car and talked to him when he got off work. I don't know what I thought that would accomplish, but I did it and I guess he felt very threatened. I still care for the girl, and she told me quite a few stories about him disrespecting her, verbally and sexually; so yes I hate the guy quite a bit. I really never evaluated the girl in the entire four years, and these negative personally traits never really became apparent until the break up. Honestly I don't want to be alone, I really don't have any friends and not having anyone to talk to anymore really sucks. I don't want the girl back as a lover. As I've said before we would be a disaster. A lot of this anger is because I feel partially responsible for the girl, which I am not. I feel like I'm her only hope at growing up; her only hope at getting herself out from under this mess she has brought into her life since we broke up. I'm of the opinion now that you can't force people to change, and this is her mess to clean up. However I don't have any hope for her, I think she's completely and totally doomed to live her life as it is dictated by others. She's just so malleable and simple minded; she thinks everything that happens to her is what she deserves. My parents had, and still have, a very good relationship. I do not have any memories of them arguing or fighting. I'm sure they did, but they kept it well hidden from me. I can't really think of any examples set for romantic relationships while I was a child. I was home schooled and really didn't have much access to that type of thing until I attended ninth grade public school. Describing my child hood would again be home school, and lots and lots of video games. Porn was a big factor starting when I was like twelve. My parents put our family computer in the office which was behind my bedroom on the second floor, easy easy to sneak around and do pretty much whatever. It's probably my biggest problem today. (Edit - It seems that lots and lots of porn was my example of romantic relationships) My parents really didn't like me playing video games as much as I did. As for discipline and violence see post #8 on this topic. No, I'm not mad about him kicking me. I realize that it was a poor parenting technique, but my father was punished much more harshly when he was a kid. He was a very stand off-ish father. He has done an excellent job of providing for the family, but he was never really there in the way of emotional growth. Yes, I think him talking to me would have had a much greater effect. I probably threw the poor little dachshund because of the pent up anger from my father kicking me. In my fathers mind I'm sure he was perfectly justified; but in my mind no. I've heard Stef talk about how ignorance about parenting is not an excuse for bad parenting.

For now I can go along with all of this. I've distanced myself from the girl in the past, but I always seem to run back into the situation. I suppose I'm a glutton for pain. I don't want to hurt her further, and if I can get a hold of myself I hope I'll be able to grow away from the thoughts that bring about the rage. If it's appropriate lets go into why I feel like retaliation would have been an appropriate course of action. I understand it would of hurt her and followed her around for the rest of her life. I know that my family would have been seriously disappointed that I stooped to such a level. I know that I would have regretted it after it had taken place. So lets talk about my childhood and see if that goes anywhere. I have my bachelor's in criminal justice. I always kind of believed in justice, that wrongs should be righted. I was raised as a non-denominational Christian. It was very strict. I always thought I was going to hell because everything was a sin. Hurting someone was always something that you apologized for, asked forgiveness, and then repented (you didn't do it again); and I did that for my girlfriend. I did some lousy things to her and I tried to right them the best way I knew how. I was spanked. Not abused in the sense that our society would consider abuse. Spankings were on the bottom with a hand or a belt. I know this community considers it abuse and I agree. More often than not the fear of a spanking or the fear of eternal damnation in fire and brimstone was used in its stead. In first grade I remember being paddled by the principle for fighting on the playground. While in kindergarten through first grade I spent a few hours a day at a day care. There were a bunch of kids and the woman in charge of the day care was the eye for an eye type. If you hit someone, she had no problem smacking you right back. One memory is particularly strong. I don't remember how old I was, but I remember kicking my dog while my dad was watching. I don't know why I kicked the dog, but I remember my father kicking me back and asking me how I liked it (I didn't like it). When I was young I was mean to our dogs. I have one memory of taking our little dachshund out behind my house, picking it up over my head, and throwing it as hard as I could. It's horrible to think about now. I think the dog bit me (probably because I was being mean to him), and I wanted to show him who was boss. He was such a good dog too, he didn't deserve that. I'm sure there are other things, but that's all that comes to mind right now.

After a second read through it's starting to sink in. I think your absolutely right about most everything with the exception of the denial/anger/bargaining/depression deal. I ended the relationship, during her "break" when she refused to communicate with me about working on our relationship. I don't think I'm depressed right now, but the anger is still following me around quite often. The hardest part I have accepting is that it's not up to me to fix her. I get it, it's true, but this girl is completely helpless and hopeless without someone stepping in to guide her. Her family is manipulative, and they're raised her with no self-esteem. She's so incredibly wishy washy; on several occasions during the break up she told me that she was leaving the other guy and coming back to me; only to go home and return to her old ways. Her family taught her to bend to the will of those she cares about and she was with him more often than me. The girl doesn't know how to say no, and will do anything to avoid hurting someones feelings. I suppose I'm rationalizing what I'm doing by thinking that causing a little hurt is justified if the end result is her growing into a better person. Again I'm not looking to get her back. I accept that we wouldn't be happy together. I just think abandoning the girl is dooming her to the life of the very problematic girl she is today. My absolute hatred for this new guy might be another issue. I've met him before and several times he's threatened to harm me if I didn't stay away. I really want him to feel the same emotional pain that I went through. About my dream. I don't remember too much of it. I remember my ex-girlfriend, her new boyfriend, and I were sitting around talking. My ex-girlfriend was making me angry with some startling confessions. He was asking her questions and I was just listening. Honestly the only question I remember is him asking her about her sexuality. He asked her whether or not she liked girls, and if she had been with a girl. She replied yes to both. There was more to it than that. There was a lot of talking and questioning, but that's all I remember. To my knowledge she isn't bi-sexual and in real life is repulsed by the idea of being with a girl. What would you like to know about my childhood?

Hey, thanks everyone for the replies. I'll get into more depth as I have time, but I'm running late as is. Dsayers - In my book tough love in my book is a parent or loved one not allowing someone to do something that you know will hurt them. Like her mother not allowing that jerk to move in after they'd dated for a month. Maybe in this case it's none of my business, but I'm not talking about violence here. About betraying her trust, well... There is none to be betrayed. Is trust not something that is earned? Does it not disappear when she lies, deceives and manipulates? Again, this is probably another indicator that I shouldn't even be talking to the girl anymore. Wuzzums - Typically it went back to something she was more familiar with, or something she more comfortable talking about. Example - When we were talking about our problems, considered what it would be like if we got back together, she would start talking about how stressful work is. Rex I'll have to get back to you, super late for school now, but I would like to delve into my past if you think we can discover anything useful. In the time being what should I do? Just forget the girl exists and only seek help for myself? The girl is practically helpless, she won't get help if someone doesn't hold her hand in the process.

Hello to everyone in Free Domain Radio Land. This is my first post on the forum, though I've been long subscribed to the program on YouTube. I'll start out by saying that I'm 27 years old, and my ex-girlfriend is 22. I've been going through some tough times with said ex-girlfriend. We were together for almost four years. The relationship was rocky at best. It had it's highs and lows. I thought the sex was great and I enjoyed not being alone, but I never really connected with the girl on an emotional level. Talking too her was like speaking to a fourth grader. She really had a problem listening to people and understanding what was going on. In my opinion she listened to respond, not to understand. She constantly changed the subject thinking that it was a perfectly normal way to carry on a conversation. It was nearly impossible to get the girl to understand anything. While I explained something, she was thinking of something completely unrelated to respond with. She kind of reminds me of that kid on YouTube that likes turtles. You talk to her and talk to her and in her little head she knows that in a minute it's going to be her turn to talk but she has no idea whats going on so she says something completely irrelevant. I didn't give the relationship 100%. I spent a lot of time playing video games while she was over at my house. Maybe that was because conversation with the girl was so frustrating. About five months ago she sent me a text message saying that she needed a break from the relationship. It was messy. I was angry that she did everything over text message and wouldn't see me in person. I threatened to throw all of her stuff away if she wouldn't come see me. That got her mother to call me which made me even more angry and I ended the relationship. Two months later I thought I had made a mistake and got back in touch with the girl. We hung out a bit, she said she still had feelings for me, but she told me she needed time to herself. To make a long dramatic story short she was dating someone else. Her parents had let the guy move in to their house and live with her. Whats worse is she never told me any of this. I learned it all from her friends and family. She kept telling me that she loved both of us and that she didn't know what she wanted. Again she told me she needed time to herself, yet she was living with the guy. Her mother turned out to be a complete joke. She mother loved me one day and hated the new guy, and the next she threatened to kick her daughter out of the house and disown her if she got back with me. At one point in this whole cluster she came over to my house. I made all kinds of symbolic gestures and promises about how I would be different. The night went very well, her and the guy were still dating, but we kissed a bit and I really thought I had her back. I was wrong. The next day she needed "time to herself". Anyway, it turned out to be a disgusting web of lies while I waited on the girl for months. She kept feeding me the line "I just need time to myself" while she continued to live with the guy. The final straw was when she mother posted a picture of her new engagement ring on Facebook. She swore to me that they weren't engaged, but asking her to take the picture down brought nothing but resistance. She didn't want the picture taken down for some reason or another. I wrote her a long letter that basically said how I thought she was such a horrible person and that I didn't want to be with her anymore, that we weren't a compatible couple and that I really hope she gets her stuff together. I still feel that way. I understand that we wouldn't be happy together. I'm still attracted to the girl and I still care about her, but I've been doing some really stupid things lately. I'm telling myself that all I want is an apology. An apology for stringing me along for two months and constantly lying to me about how she "needed time to herself". I'm telling myself that getting the girl to recognize her mistakes instead of making more and more excuses would be good for her, but I'm going about it in a very hurtful, and manipulative manor. Basically it's blackmail. I have a lot of unflattering material of the girl and have threatened to show it to the world if she doesn't, as I call it, "make this right". I'm not asking her to leave the other guy, or come back to me, or anything like that. I just want to see her grow and mature. To recognize her mistakes. To make her see what a dysfunctional family she's in. At the same time another part of me wants her, and the other guy, to feel the emotional pain I went through over the two months while she lead me on and lived with that guy. I feel that she deserves it, straight up. It would follow her for the rest of her life, and bring a lot of disrespect upon me from my family and friends; but if I did it right now it would make me feel better. At least for a little while. Right now I'm at the point where she's willing to go and talk to a psychologist. At least she says she is. I really don't believe a word that comes out of the girls mouth anymore. I've omitted a ton of information here. There's so much more to the story but I have a hard time sorting out the relevant from the irrelevant. That and I don't want everyone who reads this to drop dead from boredom. I'm just so angry that she started seeing this guy days after she got out of our four year relationship; and then she made all these horrible decisions about letting the guy move in and then having unprotected sex with someone she barely knows. She constantly lied to me, and the other guy. Mostly about how she repeatedly said "I need time to myself" while living with the other guy. Anyway I just had to post because I just woke up. I had a dream about her, and the guy she's currently dating, and when I woke up I was fuming mad. I'll add that int he past I have never had anger issues. I don't get mad and punch things. I'm not a violent person. I'll be happy to add any requested information, the mean ass letter I wrote her, or whatever. Thanks to anyone who offers any advice and I'm sorry for all the grammatical errors in here. I'm sure there are a bunch, but I just woke up and I can't find my glasses... Thanks again.