Horseradish

So I went to therapy this morning, and read my post here. It was a very long read, and very uncomfortable to do since I was reading it directly to her these things I haven't brought up in sessions before. But it felt right, like there was no other option, I definitely couldn't pretend I hadn't had these feelings and just go on with the session. She thanked me for bringing this up, and said that how I feel is really important, even if how I feel is that she isn't the right fit. She responded to some of the things in my post, and we talked about a bunch of things about it, how I felt, and how she felt since she didn't know about this until today. I felt good about what we talked about. She apologized for not bringing up Homecoming, but said I also didn't bring it up so she didn't know how important it was to me, but apologized and said it clearly is. She asked more questions about how I felt about her, and said maybe she is just not the right fit as a therapist. I said it was a kind of instinctive feeling, and that also I felt a unsafe, but that I have also found many things very helpful. She asked how long I had felt this. I said I have only felt this intense urge to not go back for a few days, but I have felt it a little since the very beginning, a fear that she was not the right fit. And I also said that I really didn't like the process of looking for a therapist, so from the beginning I wanted it to be a good fit but was scared it wasn't, so I didn't want to bring up my discomfort. When she talked about what she was feeling, she said she was a bit confused, because she did think we had gone pretty deeply into my childhood in the past few sessions. I agreed, because we had, and said that was part of my mixed feelings. She apologized for moving too fast, or for directing things too much, and asked if I felt rushed along or pressured into anything. And I said I didn't, which is true, with everything new she told me ahead of time and said it was a suggestion and we didn't have to do it. She also said that to her therapy is a slow process, and it takes awhile to develop a relationship between client and therapist. We had tried imagery a month or so ago, I didn't feel like I trusted her enough yet to do imagery but I didn't say that, I just said I didn't know if I would feel safe, and we tried it and I couldn't picture a safe place and started crying. She said about that she thought we were just going too fast at the time. I told her that makes sense because I didn't say anything at the time, I felt a long time ago that I didn't trust her but I didn't say anything until now. I also realized at some point that I wanted to apologize for that, because I wasn't being honest, and so I apologized to my therapist for not being honest at the time, and only bringing all this up after the fact. She also said that maybe she is not the right fit, and that happens. But she also wondered if this was related to where we were in the process, and if it was me resisting. But she said she didn't know, and there is no way for her to know. And I agreed and said that's why I said that I had just seen my parents, that maybe they subconsciously influenced me. My therapist said that she thought it would be a disservice to me if I didn't try other therapists, and she hoped for me that I did find a therapist that I felt really comfortable with. And she said that she would be sad, because she cares for me, but she wants me to find a good fit. She asked how I would feel not having her as a therapist, and I said I would feel okay, a bit relieved. She asked what I planned to do, and I said I wanted to take a break from therapy and do some self-exploring and reading and such for awhile, and then look for other therapists and see how that feels. At this point, my therapist said (and this isn't a direct quote) "what comes to mind for me, since I do want the best for you, is that you feel comfortable retreating and being alone, and I think part of what makes this process so difficult for you is having another person there, because you feel so comfortable on your own". And I thought that was a very important point, because I do find it very easy to kind of "retreat into my cave" and so my desire to work things out without a therapist at all is pretty tempting. So she suggested that when I was processing this and jounalling, to try to figure out why I feel this way, to figure out if it is not a good fit between me and her, or if it's me resisting working through things with another person, or something else. When I said goodbye I felt very sad to say goodbye to her and I was crying. And then I skipped one of my buses and walked a long way instead, and was crying and thinking most of the way. Afterward it felt very good that I had been so honest, that is probably one of the most honest moments of my life, if not the most honest moment. When I got home I found myself typing my first really controversial thing on facebook (someone was talking about how poorly the elderly are treated, and I typed "what about the young who are born hundreds of thousands into debt?"). It felt much easier to say something that I cared about on facebook without worrying what people would think, it feels like a breakthrough in my own honesty. I was also thinking that it's a possibility that I felt unsafe or like I couldn't trust her could have been that I wasn't being entirely honest either, like projection. Stefan has said that dishonest people find other people untrustworthy. I've been crying a lot, I feel very sad actually and now I feel like I want her back as a therapist, but I think it is a good idea to try some other therapists and see how that goes. But I definitely feel a lot of sadness.

Ah okay, I was asking because I was wondering if whoever was in the room above you was dangerous to you, but I guess not if it was a single story house, unless your Dad did some work on the roof or something. And I'm sorry to hear about all this, that sounds awful to have terrifying dreams like that caused by your father. It might not be the crabs, but seeing an unexpected living animal in a place that is normally just her and her parents. I'm not sure though, that's an interesting point you brought up.

I actually had that opened in my chrome tabs for awhile and just looked at it again today, I think it is pretty relevant. That's very true. And the way I ended my friendship with my former roommates left things hazy, and even at the very beginning of therapy that was one goal I talked about was honesty so that I can have more clarity when ending relationships in the future. I think that is a good idea, and I will post about it here afterwards. Thanks, that is very helpful too.

Thanks Prairie, I think that is very helpful. I think part of the reason I hesitate in just ending therapy is the client consent form, I knew there was something about the client and therapist agreeing to end the relationship. I reread it just now and it says: "Therapy can be terminated at any time by either the client or the therapist. It is important that the reasons for termination are discussed and agreed upon by the client and the therapist." This makes me even more worried. Does that mean I need to go to a session and find a reason to agree to end therapy?

Thanks, I think you definitely might be right. I feel like I owe some sort of reason, maybe it's a fear of judgement. With my past friendship with my old roommates, I keep thinking back to what they think of me or say about me now, and then I remind myself that I don't need to care what they think or say anymore. I have thought about saying this to her, but then I think that I am denying my own feelings by going back at all. But maybe not, maybe going back and being honest about all this is how to gain certainty. Because if I am honest about all this and she is accepting of all of it, that would be a good sign. But when I write that last sentence what pops into my mind is more shallow sessions and me not delving deep. I have also thought of going to another therapist at the same time, but then I think that if I felt the need to do that, there is no point continuing with my current therapist because it would mean I definitely didn't trust her. Thank you for responding.

Hey Ivan, I had a couple thoughts that might help. The first is that if you find yourself writing for others, write that too. Like if you are midsentence, maybe just stop the sentence and write a dash and write "Whoa I just realized I am writing for other people". Or if you don't notice while you are doing it, but you notice while reading it, write about that, or write notes in the margins. I put the date on all my journals, and sometimes I write in the sides and put a date there too. For example: April 20th - While I'm reading through this I'm noticing that I'm writing for other people, I wonder why I was doing that?". And I would also say don't judge yourself when you find you are writing for an audience, just be curious about it. The other thought I had was to have another notebook where you do write for other people, even if you don't plan to actually publish it or anything, but maybe there is something that draws you to writing like that? You do youtube videos, so maybe there is a part of you that enjoys writing for other people, and it might be helpful to have two separate journals, one just for you and one for an audience.

So, in the last two weeks I've been feeling that I haven't been delving deeply enough into my feelings. And when I go to therapy, it feels helpful but not very deep, like I am scratching the surface once every two weeks and that's it. My instinct is that my therapist is not the right fit for me. When I am in the waiting room and she comes around the corner, I feel a bit hesitant, not excited to see her. But then if I think about not going to her anymore, I think "but she has said a lot of useful things" and I will think of various things I have liked, and then things that were deep. And I think "how will I end it?". I worry that she will wonder what she did wrong. Or I think that she will think I am dropping her as a therapist quickly and suddenly which is how I have done some things in the past, like when I moved out of my parents house, or moved out from my roommates/friends. I wanted to really delve into my feelings this weekend, so I went to do the first meditation in Homecoming by John Bradshaw. And it says: "Do not do this exercise if: You do not have your therapist's permission". I thought I would just do it, and then I saw this and felt helpless - how will I ever start feeling my childhood feelings? My doubt about my therapist became stronger as I was reading The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller in the last few days. I was reading about the dangers of an unprocessed therapist treating her clients as subsitute parents. And I was thinking of how at the very beginning of therapy I told her I wanted to work through Homecoming by John Bradshaw. And in the first and second session she mentioned it and that she would try to get a copy, and hasn't mentioned it since, and neither have I. A few sessions ago I thought "well I don't want to work through this book for now, it's on the backburner, so that's fine". But as I was reading Alice Miller, and she talked about how clients of unprocessed therapists will find themselves able to follow the unconscious wishes of their therapists, and I wondered if I stopped wanting to work through Homecoming because it was her unprocessed desire? And right now I find I really do want to work through this book, and I felt frustrated because it says I shouldn't do it without my therapist's permission. Oh, also, I saw my parents last weekend, and before I saw them I told my therapist "I would like to bring up some of my issues from childhood with them this weekend" and she said "To what end?". I answered "I don't know... actually I think I would like to tell my Dad that it bothers me when he worries about me". I wanted to add these recent events in case a) seeing my parents influenced me to not want to see this therapist or b) my therapist saying "to what end?" really affected my feelings about her, or both. Does anyone have any thoughts? I want to follow my instincts, which would be to no longer see this therapist, but I am worried that I am wrong, and I am worried how to end a therapy relationship (I have seen her since beginning of January this year).

What was the room right above your bedroom?

I think it kind of led to peaceful existence, but then crazy, impossible shit happened that ended that.

Maybe it was this one: Moving Towards Something Real, September 23, 2013, first caller (9:33) I just started watching this today and remembered your question.

That part appears to be nonsense. These aren't even based on anything but they're presented like statistics.

I am the oldest child in a family with four siblings. The sister two years younger than me and closest to my age, I wouldn't say I bullied her, but as I'm thinking about it there are some things I remember doing or participating in that were definitely bullying. What I remember doing a lot of though was taking advantage of our age difference in games like marbles, I'm not sure if that also falls under bullying, but it's definitely poor treatment. And also we would just fight a lot, which fairly early on was pretty even I guess because I was overweight, but I remember many fights where I thought I would win that turned out to be pretty even. I never even thought about all these things I've done until Stefan talked about his brother doing stuff like this to him, and Stefan would say that his brother was accountable for those things to some extent. When he talked about this, I thought back my childhood. And for me, the things I did to my sister didn't seem at all conscious. Like not only was there no malicious intent, but there was no intent at all. Most of my childhood feels that way. That things just kind of happened, that I wasn't making choices, that I just did what I thought I should do at the time. So when Stef talked about his brother's being responsible, it really made me think about whether I was responsible, because my childhood certainly didn't feel that way. The whole thing up until maybe age 12 or so just feels like a film in my head, not like something I participated in. But I was also the person who did them. I tried talking to my sister about it once. I think I brought up a memory. I don't remember if I apologized, or if I said something like "that was really awful of me" or something. But I do know she just brushed off the topic. Something like "It's fine, forget about it, it's not a big deal, let's talk about something else". And this was a few years ago, so maybe when I brought it up I really didn't want to talk about it, which she might have sensed and then wanted to brush off the topic too. I also brought it up with my therapist, just the age difference thing, I didn't think of the other stuff at the time. I gave an example of playing marbles, and I would tell my sister rules that would help me win, like I would use a big marble and she would use a small one, or I would say she needs to hit my marble twice to win but I would only have to hit her marble once to win. This was when we were pretty little, what comes to mind is ages 5 and 3, but I'm not sure if that's right at all. My therapist said that that is pretty common, and normal for siblings of different ages, and that there is nothing wrong with that, that it's just part of development. To me I agree, what I remember thinking when I made up the rules is something like "this will help me win, so I'm going to do it". The bullying that comes to mind, I had a friend when I was in grade 4 I think. My parents never liked her. But my friendship with her just feels to me like it happened, without my choice again. Just that she was around me, and therefore we were friends. The bullying, one example was something pretty awful that I don't want to write actually, but it was something this friend suggested that we do to my sister. I think she thought it would be funny. I don't remember how I felt. I don't think I thought it was funny. But it just felt like she suggested it, and so I would do it. So much of my childhood felt like this, like there were no decisions that I was making, that things were just kind of happening. I think when I was in junior high and high school is when I started feeling like I was making some choices, but even then I felt more like I was just making decisions as they came up. The first time I started really feeling like I was really making decisions was when I was 24, when my depression went away after a 3 month group procrastination workshop where CBT and other techniques were discussed. So, I know that I did these things. But I don't know how responsible I am. Certainly at least responsible enough that it is worth talking to my sister again about and apologizing, because I definitely regret that I did those things, and won't do them again (not that I can anymore). And talking about how it made her feel, about what she thinks about it now. But I definitely feel less responsible than Stefan feels his brother was in his childhood. This is one of the things that has been in the back of my mind for a few years that I don't know what the answer is.

I like this. I found this a really powerful idea too lately. I have only in the last few months heard Stef talk about this, I'm not sure if he has only recently been talking about it or if I've just noticed it now. Pete Holmes has also said almost the same thing in his podcast, that when he was starting out in comedy he had to ditch all the friends who weren't serious about comedy, that he had to have the right type of people around. I was on today's show talking about moving out of a dysfunctional roommate situation. And since I moved out I have found myself much more able to be honest, and much more able to explore what I want to do in life. Around those "friends" I was terrified of them discovering things about me. They expected me either to get a degree and find a standard job making 60-80K a year, or be a "failure" and work retail for the rest of my life. And while I lived with them those were the only options I was considering. And I think you're right Ivan, that even if I keep those people around and "do my own thing" it would be really hard, because I had desires that I was hiding from them, but I couldn't act towards them because I needed support. I needed to not be in proximity to people who were hostile to my desires, because how do you aim for your dreams when you feel that your desires are a secret?