emilia

I feel productive and like it's going to be a good day and that I will get things done, when I drink coffee. But I manage to do that every morning. It is a small high, that I look forward to feeling, but I don't think it damages me in any way. It gets the day started for me. Your reaction to coffee does sound more intense than mine, but I still kind of relate to your describing it as "feeling like a superhero". It is not clear to me based on your post, why you think you cannot just have coffee everyday. What would be the downside of that? I can imagine that you would rather feel good without an external substance, so maybe I am answering my own question here...

Nice thread. I thought of this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcxv7BWJq0k

Thank you for sharing this!

I couldn't think of any other reason why you would say " I don't know how you know so much about me", other than to put me down for trying to claim that I know something about you, that I couldn't possibly know. I felt hurt by that, and that's why I said the "ouch". My interpretation could be wrong, which is why I asked you why you said it. I asked it in a passive aggressive way though, and I am sorry about that. I have no problem with it, if you think I don't know enough about you, but I would prefer that you just tell me that, instead of using passive aggression like that. (If my interpretation is correct.) I'm having trouble deciding what to say about the rest of what you say. I'm surprised that you are having so much trouble understanding what I have been trying to say, because you haven't asked me for clarifications or you haven't asked me what I think you should do. I agree that I haven't given you much information, so based on that I understand that you would be confused, it's just that I thought you would tell me that you don't understand or ask me more questions, if you were interested in what I was trying to say. You did ask a couple of questions, which I think I have answered except for this last one, which I only answered the "ouch" to, for reasons that I explained above. I don't have very clear ideas about what you should do, and I have tried to make it clear. There are some things that I have said that I was sure of, and others that I'm not so sure of. I've tried to make that clear, but it might not have been clear enough. I have given you the thoughts that I have and then I have been looking to see how you respond, and if you find what I say interesting or helpful, and then ask me more if you do.

Ouch. Why did you feel the need to say this? You have given a lot of information in this thread. Sure, the temptation will be there, but you can keep an eye on yourself, and depending on how good friends you are, she could even do it for you, don't you think? Learn from your mistakes and work through your feelings.. Yes, that's true, but all it means that there are also women who think this way. I don't see how that changes anything.

That was not friendship that was described on the video. She was talking about situations where men are being used by women. And they also let themselves be used. If the women you know are like that, then I absolutely understand why you wouldn't want to be friends with them. But it is also possible to have normal friendship between a man and a woman, where neither of the people is using the other. Women are capable of that too..And maybe it's obvious, but it's not like those relationships described on the video, would have been any healthier if they were having sex.And I'm in no way saying that sex is not important. I think it is.I'm not sure about this, but I think given your history, it would be really good for you to spend more time with women.

Sure, I value a romantic relationship over a platonic one. But I also value a friendship over no relationship. If you choose to not be friends with someone, because you are interested in her romantically but she is not in you (but would still want to be friends), you must value sex over friendship, because if you didn't, you would choose the friendship no matter what. And that doesn't make sense to me, because a friendship is the most important part of a romantic relationship, isn't it? The rest of it is sexual in one form or another. I'm not completely certain of my logic above, so correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have clear thoughts on this besides what I already said. I do think you are going towards a right direction with your thoughts. And I'm quite certain that in the future you will be satisfied with friendship if your love is unrequited. That has been my experience (though I am a woman), that it will be very difficult at first, but you will get over it and value the friendship with someone you think is great. At least for me, I eventually stop feeling attracted, because I know nothing is going to happen. But most importantly you have the help of self knowledge. I think those feelings you have around unrequited love, are connected to childhood, and it would be better to feel them and analyse them, than avoid them. Not saying it will be easy...

Sexual risks have nothing to do with the question the op asked, and I'm not yet sure what I think of the scenerios you hypothesized, that's why I didn't comment on them.I appreciate your honesty in admitting that you don't have a philosophical argument.

All you are saying here, is that it is important to spend time together in order to have a well functioning rtr relationship. This has nothing to do with whether or not there are multiple partners. What if neither of the "main" partners work (for whatever reason)? They will have 40-60 hours of extra time per week compared to your example. Can they use that time to have other partners? What about friends? Why is it ok to spend time with them but not with someone you have sex with? And do you not rtr with friends? How is that different from rtr with multiple partners? Is it ok to have dinner with a friend? Is it ok to have hobbies, because they too will take time away from your relationship?

If whether or not the woman is available influences the amount of torture you feel, then what tortures you is clearly not the attraction you feel, but the impact that the woman not being interested in you, has on your self esteem. So clearly the problem is, like JohnH. said, that you don't want to work through the feelings that rejection brings out in you. I think it's the opposite of what you say: you need to have self respect to still be able to interact with someone who finds you deficient in some way, otherwise you will feel a desire to get away from them. Remember that all the qualities that made you like that person to begin with, are still there and the only thing that has changed is that she has rejected you romantically. If the reasons you liked her were genuine, and the main reason for your interest was not the way she makes you feel about yourself but your respect for her, you will have no reason to stop interacting with her.About the car analogy. If you value someones company so much that you would want to have a romantic relationship with them, isn't that a rare situation, especially amongst FDR people? It doesn't make any sense to walk away from them, just because they won't have sex with you.

If you are not satisfied with friendship with someone who you are romantically interested in, then what you are saying is that you value sex (or romance) more than friendship, no?If you are friends with a woman that is attracted to you, and you are worried about leading her on, can you not have an honest discussion with her about it? I think it's interesting that you say that women who you have talked to about this topic, don't think it is a big deal whether or not there is attraction, but still you think it's necessary to not be friends with women who are attracted to you, because you are afraid of leading them on. I find that contradictory.

I don't see why not.

I'm not sure if I will be able to say anything helpful or understanding about this, because I am still trying to resolve a similar thing about my own parents. But I will try. I think this quote is very important and shows possibly the worst part of the abuse that has been inflicted on you. You wish that your father was worse than he is... I think that points to his "niceness" being abusive. You suffer because of it... I'm probably exaggerating here, but it's as if any good behaviour from his part means that you have to forget your feelings and self-interest. So that kind of means that the behavior isn't all that good after all...

I just want to point out, that you imply here that you think your childhood had an impact on your later life, but that you don't think your experiences were horrible or devastating. But when you describe what happened to you, it clearly is horrible and devastating. In fact the word cynicist chose to use about your history was horrible, and I agree. It seems like you are already getting this, when you say that re-reading what you wrote, it came across as unbelievable. This is part of the denormalization process, that cynicist talked about, and I agree it is very important and helpful.

Don't think too much about it, just write whatever is on your mind. Don't sensor yourself and be totally honest. This can be difficult at first, if you're not used to writing to yourself. You may feel like someone is watching you or reading what you write, but no one is. I wouldn't try to have any kind of structure, but just write for as long as you have something to say, and then stop. Continue the next day, or when you feel like it. I have noticed that this way, even though I am not consciously trying to find solutions to my problems or gain new knowledge about myself, this often happens, within some time of having written about a specific thing. And the immediate result of writing about something that bothers me, is that I always feel much better after having written about it. I think journaling works because you are at the same the one telling your story and the one witnessing it, so it is a little bit like therapy. And it really helps in clarifying your thoughts to your self, which is a key in getting to know your self. I find it easiest to write in the morning with my first cup(s) of coffee of the day. That is when I am the most in touch with my feelings, and the happenings of the day have not yet distracted me. I feel that my thoughts flow better then.