[Anyone else feel like a Superhero after they have a cup of Coffee?]

I feel productive and like it's going to be a good day and that I will get things done, when I drink coffee. But I manage to do that every morning. It is a small high, that I look forward to feeling, but I don't think it damages me in any way. It gets the day started for me.

 

Your reaction to coffee does sound more intense than mine, but I still kind of relate to your describing it as "feeling like a superhero". It is not clear to me based on your post, why you think you cannot just have coffee everyday. What would be the downside of that?

 

I can imagine that you would rather feel good without an external substance, so maybe I am answering my own question here...

[Songs About Self Knowledge/Improvement?]

Nice thread.

 

I thought of this:

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcxv7BWJq0k

[A Letter to Myself]

Thank you for sharing this!

[Can a guy have female friends?]

I am confused about the "ouch". But let me tell you how I'm experiencing our exchange.

 

You've kindly offered several corrections and pieces of advice. But despite this, I've only grown more confused about what I'm supposed to think or do. I'm sure I do have some baggage in this area, and you've suggested that I do, but you haven't told me why you think it's baggage that leads me to false conclusions. You just put it forward as an idea. And I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that.

 

And when you said "ouch" you gave me no information on what was prickly or painful about my statement. I would really like to apologize if I did something inappropriate, but I have no idea what it was that I would be apologizing for...

 

Maybe it's some limitation of mine, and I guess it wouldn't be terribly surprising if it were, but I kinda feel like I'm pulling teeth over here in order to understand where you are coming from.

 

Honestly, I'm trying to be as sincere and honest as I can about this, and trying to meet you where you're at, but for whatever reason we keep missing each other. That's frustrating for me.

I couldn't think of any other reason why you would say " I don't know how you know so much about me", other than to put me down for trying to claim that I know something about you, that I couldn't possibly know. I felt hurt by that, and that's why I said the "ouch". My interpretation could be wrong, which is why I asked you why you said it. I asked it in a passive aggressive way though, and I am sorry about that.

 

I have no problem with it, if you think I don't know enough about you, but I would prefer that you just tell me that, instead of using passive aggression like that. (If my interpretation is correct.)

 

I'm having trouble deciding what to say about the rest of what you say.

 

I'm surprised that you are having so much trouble understanding what I have been trying to say, because you haven't asked me for clarifications or you haven't asked me what I think you should do. I agree that I haven't given you much information, so based on that I understand that you would be confused, it's just that I thought you would tell me that you don't understand or ask me more questions, if you were interested in what I was trying to say. You did ask a couple of questions, which I think I have answered except for this last one, which I only answered the "ouch" to, for reasons that I explained above.

 

I don't have very clear ideas about what you should do, and I have tried to make it clear. There are some things that I have said that I was sure of, and others that I'm not so sure of. I've tried to make that clear, but it might not have been clear enough. I have given you the thoughts that I have and then I have been looking to see how you respond, and if you find what I say interesting or helpful, and then ask me more if you do.

[Can a guy have female friends?]

I don't know how you know so much about me

Ouch. Why did you feel the need to say this? You have given a lot of information in this thread.

The Scott guy is not someone I imagine myself ever being, but where I do see it being relevant is how you avoid being that "super friend" and just be an actual real friend. I mean it's not like my unrequited feelings would just magically disappear (at least not right away). Some part of me would still be tempted to try and impress and win her affections. I guess, it just seems like dangerous territory, if not a plain ol' bad idea.

Sure, the temptation will be there, but you can keep an eye on yourself, and depending on how good friends you are, she could even do it for you, don't you think? Learn from your mistakes and work through your feelings..

And you're right that it's not the same sense of the word "friendship". At least not with the Scott fella who was called a "bitch", but it was the same with Karen's current boyfriend when she said that she didn't want to "just be friends". That's actually more what I was referring to.

Yes, that's true, but all it means that there are also women who think this way. I don't see how that changes anything.

[Can a guy have female friends?]

She also comments on this phenomena where a guy is into a girl and then gets frustrated when she doesn't reciprocate, and how that all escalates into mutual resentment. I don't know if that's anything you are saying, but what you said reminded me of how guys who resent the friend zone are sometimes portrayed as being immature and jerks for "settling" for friendship. I don't think that's accurate at all and she explains it very well in this video:

That was not friendship that was described on the video. She was talking about situations where men are being used by women. And they also let themselves be used. If the women you know are like that, then I absolutely understand why you wouldn't want to be friends with them. But it is also possible to have normal friendship between a man and a woman, where neither of the people is using the other. Women are capable of that too..And maybe it's obvious, but it's not like those relationships described on the video, would have been any healthier if they were having sex.And I'm in no way saying that sex is not important. I think it is.I'm not sure about this, but I think given your history, it would be really good for you to spend more time with women.

[Can a guy have female friends?]

I value a romantic relationship over a platonic one, yes. Don't you?

 

I think I mistyped the bit about what ladies feel about it. And I concede that point anyway.

 

I don't know what the hell I think about it all right now. I know there is that part of me that hates seeing unrequited love, but maybe that's not really something I can spare myself or others from.

 

Probably the thing I want more than anything else in the world, is to fall in love. I tend to put barriers in the way of that, and it would be a shame if that's what I were doing here. That friendship may grow into a love relationship for all I know. Or maybe I will be satisfied with friendship when my love is unrequited (even if it wasn't the case in the past). I don't know, what do you think?

 

I'm open to any criticism or advice you may have.

Sure, I value a romantic relationship over a platonic one. But I also value a friendship over no relationship. If you choose to not be friends with someone, because you are interested in her romantically but she is not in you (but would still want to be friends), you must value sex over friendship, because if you didn't, you would choose the friendship no matter what. And that doesn't make sense to me, because a friendship is the most important part of a romantic relationship, isn't it? The rest of it is sexual in one form or another.

 

I'm not completely certain of my logic above, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I don't have clear thoughts on this besides what I already said. I do think you are going towards a right direction with your thoughts. And I'm quite certain that in the future you will be satisfied with friendship if your love is unrequited. That has been my experience (though I am a woman), that it will be very difficult at first, but you will get over it and value the friendship with someone you think is great. At least for me, I eventually stop feeling attracted, because I know nothing is going to happen. But most importantly you have the help of self knowledge.

 

I think those feelings you have around unrequited love, are connected to childhood, and it would be better to feel them and analyse them, than avoid them. Not saying it will be easy...

[RTR and open relationships]

Time was only one of my main points (I also addressed sexual risks, and hypothesized some scenarios where it might work out). But if you want to focus on the time factor I brought up, we can do that. For me, there's no way I'd be able to share my time... and I actually am 'unemployed.' But I really wouldn't want to share my time anyways (sorry, I still need to develop an argument for what is currently stated as just a preference). My time goes towards my relationship with my boyfriend, building a sustainable home for us (which includes gardening and animal husbandry, among other things), eventually building our business, building self-knowledge, and eventually raising a family.  These are my hobbies, which happen to be a lifestyle, which also happen to contribute to the long term health and happiness of our relationship. And I do have close friends, although few. They happen to have similar interests, so being able to share time together is quite a privelage, if you know what I'm saying! My boyfriend has time-consuming and extensive hobbies of his own. He focuses more on the energy/water supply/etc. side of our sustainability effort. In addition, he has a gift and a passion (that's putting it lightly) for engines, mechanics, and in general creating and modifying things using his hands. His hobbies take up a lot of his time as well. He also has a few close friends who he spends time with occasionally. This should give you more insight into my perspective. For our lifestyle, never. For our personality types, never. Because of the type of love we have for each other, never. Do you live a lifestyle that supports non-monogomous relationships? If so, cool, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Sexual risks have nothing to do with the question the op asked, and I'm not yet sure what I think of the scenerios you hypothesized, that's why I didn't comment on them.I appreciate your honesty in admitting that you don't have a philosophical argument.

[RTR and open relationships]

I do see why not: Quality time spent together is necessary to have a functional and RT relationship with someone you would like to spend your life with. If you were in such a relationship that you've described here ("open"), how would you divide your time and still achieve that "quality" that's so necessary to keep a relationship healthy and real? If you and your main squeeze are working 40-to-60-hour work weeks, then you're already struggling to get that quality time together. Now add one or two more squeezes with whom you must share your time. Plus, if you spend time with some of your buddies on the weekends that also cuts into your schedule. Also, can you imagine planning dinners... who will you eat dinners with? For my partner and I, I always have dinner planned and cookin'. Dinner is an awesome chance to spend quality time together, recap the day, talk about your thoughts and feelings and ideas that occured during the day, work out any relationship problems, etc. I would be so pissed off if my love called during the day and said "I'm having dinner with Squeeze #2 tonight." I guess you could make a schedule in advance, but then it reminds me of growing up with divorced parents whom you had to share your time between. And there's little room for spontaneity.

All you are saying here, is that it is important to spend time together in order to have a well functioning rtr relationship. This has nothing to do with whether or not there are multiple partners. What if neither of the "main" partners work (for whatever reason)? They will have 40-60 hours of extra time per week compared to your example. Can they use that time to have other partners? What about friends? Why is it ok to spend time with them but not with someone you have sex with? And do you not rtr with friends? How is that different from rtr with multiple partners? Is it ok to have dinner with a friend? Is it ok to have hobbies, because they too will take time away from your relationship?

[Can a guy have female friends?]

Incapable of working through feelings? Uh, I guess that's one way to put it. Another might be not wanting to torture yourself by being around someone you are attracted to who will never feel the same way about you. It's one thing if she's already unavailable (married or lesbian for example) but if not then the implication is that you don't meet her standards in one way or another. I don't know how any self-respecting man could stay in a relationship like that, where the woman thinks you are deficient in some way. I would either want to meet that standard or drop the relationship because the emotional turmoil would be too great. To continue my analogy beyond the point of usefulness : Of course I would refuse to get the car! Then I would go to another dealership where I could get what I wanted plus the upgrades. Otherwise I would be thinking, "Why couldn't I get them? I thought I had the money that I needed, but apparently it wasn't good enough for the salesman".

If whether or not the woman is available influences the amount of torture you feel, then what tortures you is clearly not the attraction you feel, but the impact that the woman not being interested in you, has on your self esteem. So clearly the problem is, like JohnH. said, that you don't want to work through the feelings that rejection brings out in you. I think it's the opposite of what you say: you need to have self respect to still be able to interact with someone who finds you deficient in some way, otherwise you will feel a desire to get away from them. Remember that all the qualities that made you like that person to begin with, are still there and the only thing that has changed is that she has rejected you romantically. If the reasons you liked her were genuine, and the main reason for your interest was not the way she makes you feel about yourself but your respect for her, you will have no reason to stop interacting with her.About the car analogy. If you value someones company so much that you would want to have a romantic relationship with them, isn't that a rare situation, especially amongst FDR people? It doesn't make any sense to walk away from them, just because they won't have sex with you.

[Can a guy have female friends?]

If I am attracted, then I just know that I'm never going to be satisfied with friendship. It's never going to work for me and I'm either going to pursue it romantically or drift apart pretty quickly. If I'm not attracted, but she is, then I find it difficult personally to know what is leading her on or not. Maybe other people don't have that problem, but I've been accused of it a couple times. So generally I stay away from friendships with females, unless I know there is no attraction either way and I actually enjoy spending time with them. This hasn't happened since high school for me... I'd be happy to have female friends, but there's a significant issue of attraction to consider that you don't have to think about with guy friends. All the guys I've talked to about it have had similar experiences / attitude. Women I've talked to about it don't seem to think it's that big of a deal whether or not there is attraction. That seems so weird to me, but maybe that's because I'm missing something. I don't know.

If you are not satisfied with friendship with someone who you are romantically interested in, then what you are saying is that you value sex (or romance) more than friendship, no?If you are friends with a woman that is attracted to you, and you are worried about leading her on, can you not have an honest discussion with her about it? I think it's interesting that you say that women who you have talked to about this topic, don't think it is a big deal whether or not there is attraction, but still you think it's necessary to not be friends with women who are attracted to you, because you are afraid of leading them on. I find that contradictory.

[RTR and open relationships]

I don't see why not.

[Guilt and sympathy for parents]

 

I wish he were one of those fathers that was uncaring emotionally as he is in action. Then I wouldn't feel so bad. I wish he didn't feel anything about me. I wish he didn't think about me. I can't shoulder this burden of having to offer emotional support for the father that inflicted more damage upon me than I could ever quantify.

 

It's not fair.

 

 

I'm not sure if I will be able to say anything helpful or understanding about this, because I am still trying to resolve a similar thing about my own parents. But I will try.

 

I think this quote is very important and shows possibly the worst part of the abuse that has been inflicted on you.

 

You wish that your father was worse than he is... I think that points to his "niceness" being abusive. You suffer because of it... I'm probably exaggerating here, but it's as if any good behaviour from his part means that you have to forget your feelings and self-interest. So that kind of means that the behavior isn't all that good after all...

[Self Doubt and Self Knowledge]

 Before discovering Stefan and FDR, I was completely ignorant about the degree to which the things that someone has experienced during their childhood really affected them later in life. What I had initially believed was that for anything to have an immense impact on one's adult life it had to be some horrible, devastating experience (like being raped, seeing somebody die, being severely physically and/or verbally assaulted, etc.) Looking at it now, I can see that my ignorance stems from the fact that psychology and childhood trauma were something my parents never talked about - unless that was to dismiss or ridicule the topics. It is kind of funny because just realizing this shows the level to which things that happen in one's childhood unconsciously permeate in their future experiences, thoughts and relationships.

I just want to point out, that you imply here that you think your childhood had an impact on your later life, but that you don't think your experiences were horrible or devastating. But when you describe what happened to you, it clearly is horrible and devastating. In fact the word cynicist chose to use about your history was horrible, and I agree. It seems like you are already getting this, when you say that re-reading what you wrote, it came across as unbelievable. This is part of the denormalization process, that cynicist talked about, and I agree it is very important and helpful.

[Starting Self-Knowledge Journey, Some Questions]

Don't think too much about it, just write whatever is on your mind. Don't sensor yourself and be totally honest. This can be difficult at first, if you're not used to writing to yourself. You may feel like someone is watching you or reading what you write, but no one is. I wouldn't try to have any kind of structure, but just write for as long as you have something to say, and then stop. Continue the next day, or when you feel like it. I have noticed that this way, even though I am not consciously trying to find solutions to my problems or gain new knowledge about myself, this often happens, within some time of having written about a specific thing. And the immediate result of writing about something that bothers me, is that I always feel much better after having written about it.

 

I think journaling works because you are at the same the one telling your story and the one witnessing it, so it is a little bit like therapy. And it really helps in clarifying your thoughts to your self, which is a key in getting to know your self.

 

I find it easiest to write in the morning with my first cup(s) of coffee of the day. That is when I am the most in touch with my feelings, and the happenings of the day have not yet distracted me. I feel that my thoughts flow better then.

[I need parenting advice....Help]

I have a couple thoughts about the 8 year old.

 

 

First, I have a 8 yr old boy who is very over emotional.  His father and I are divorced and while we were together, my ex was very violent.  He occasionally spanked the boys and beat our dog in front of them and had a very viotile temper.  Whenever my ex would raise his voice, my 8 yr old would immediately start crying and go put his head in his lap.  He always told me he was scared, but he knew that my ex always wanted him to be a man, be tough.  If one of his oder brothers upset him, he cries.  If he gets his feelings hurt, he cries.  And it's not easy to get him out of these moods.  I try cuddling him and talk to him about what happened that made him be upset but it seems like it takes hours for him to come out of the mood.  What else can I do?

 

I think part of the problem might be that you are thinking of him as over emotional instead of just having emotions, and that you view his sad moods as something that you need to get him out of. I think he cries, because he has had a sad life / sad experiences. It is good that he cries, it means he is in touch with his emotions. My advice to you is to just let him cry for as long as it takes, even if it takes hours, days, weeks, months... He probably feels that you view his crying as something he shouldn't do, just like his father did, but he still can't stop crying (I assume he tries to), which makes him feel like a failure, which makes him cry even more...

 

A lot of times he cries because something isn't fair.  Like if one of
his older brothers get invited to a party, he cries becasue he didn't
get invited.  And then he goes over the top and starts feeling sorry for
himself by saying, I never get invited to parties or I didn't get to do
that, it's not fair, etc.

 

This isn't a description of something that isn't fair, but of something that he thinks is not fair. Did you notice that?

[Today's child abuse intervention: Just speaking the truth.]

Tasmlab, you are here defending the use of force against your children and saying that it's necessary that they cry. You are then provided an opportunity to find information that could teach you not to use force and not make your children cry. Your reply is "I am looking forward to hearing it", but still don't listen, meanwhile your children keep crying while you listen to podcasts in order...

[Today's child abuse intervention: Just speaking the truth.]

tasmlab, I really recommend you skip forward in the podcasts to the time that Stefs daughter was born. There is so much evidence starting from there that is relevant to this thread. For example, Isabella did not cry almost at all. And I am pretty sure that she didn't have the terrible twos either, although i can't remember that for sure and could't find evidence just now. Someone could back me up on this if they remember? I also remember Stef saying that he had no trouble saying no to Isabella, because she was so happy and free almost all the time, that she didn't mind it at all, when in some rare occasions she was not allowed to do something she wanted.