Henry1958

I guess this requires both a long and a short answer. Long answer first. Here you can get all of the information you want on how sugars can be converted into fat. All the information you need is there. How Sugar is Converted to Fat Now you state: "Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that..."" First "we know that..." is actually a quote from Dr. Attia not myself, and the whole quote is "we know that refined grains and starches elevate your blood sugar in the short run, and there's even reason to believe that sugar may lead to insulin resistance directly.". I see nothing wrong with this statement can you point out what the problem is? So not only did you attribute the quote to the incorrect person, you misinterpreted it's meaning. Then you said: "don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please." So you are asking me for clinical data whereas the proof you supply is some lame propaganda video produced by a vegetarian/vegan web site author. I guess we could replace the Paleo authors in the video with what is current considered the "Gurus" of the Paleo field. I added Dr. Attia as well. http://ultimatepaleoguide.com/mark-sisson/ http://robbwolf.com/about/ http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/tag/ancestral-health/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/3353110/Big-fat-lie.html http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia I don't know... I find them all quite hot. A bit less lean than the vegans in the group, but I'd do em. Jeff Nelson should find a more flattering word to describe the vegans in the video than lean. lean  Main Entry: lean  [leen] Show IPA Part of Speech: adjective Definition: bare, thin Synonyms: angular, anorexic, barren, beanpole, bony, emaciated, gangling, gangly, gaunt, haggard, inadequate, infertile, lank, lanky, meager, no fat, pitiful, poor, rangy, rawboned, scanty, scraggy, scrawny, shadow*, sinewy, skinny, slender, slim, spare, sparse, stick, stilt, stringy, svelte, sylphlike, twiggy, unfruitful, unproductive, wasted, wiry, wizened, worn For the short answer, since you obviously tried to insult me by to attribute a quote to me that was not mine, and truncating it in an attempted misrepresented its meaning, I'll just say "Go fuck yourself and shove your Shrek doll where the sun don't shine.". If you require any assistance on how this is feasible, I'd recommend clicking on my first web link. I'm sure it will have all of the information you require on how to achieve these two maneuvers and make them especially enjoyable. I'm not sure if you are actually a meat eater dressed in vegan drag to try to make the vegan community look like assholes? Being that 75% of my diet is vegan, I guess I too should be 75% insulted. And don't judge the Paleo community by my posts. I in no way represent them since I'm not actually Paleo, just an asshole. BTW CrazyCunuk. I believe CarbCruncher was being sarcastic when he stated: "Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet.". Or he could just be a fucking idiot to make such a statement? They only become obese when they adopt the North American diet. As you can see in the article by Dr. Attia, the data is not all in, so no definitive reason can be given for this, only theories. http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-do-some-cultures-stay-lean-while-still-consuming-high-amounts-of-carbohydrates

Yes, I can be inconsistent and abrasive. Let's just say I didn't ace debating 101 so let my emotions get away from me at times. I did apologize, (a somewhat qualified apology), for my opening statement and wanted to pull it but didn't know about the edit option of the site. Let me apologize again. I think you are misrepresenting my position. I don't really care about what each individual does with their bodies. My concern is what society as a whole is doing to their bodies and if this damage is not due to their individual choices, but driven by false, incomplete, or outdated information. A few of questions I've posed are: First law of Thermodynamics, Calories in Calories out argument. Is it valid? Obesity causes all of the associated rather than being a co-symptom of some other underlying disease? Is advising an obese person to eat less and exercise a valid approach? Do many obese people deserve the scorn that is laid upon them by the rest of society, or do they deserve our sympathy instead? Health benefits/damage of a low carbohydrate and/or low fat diet? Whether the Canada/U.S. food guilds are beneficial or harmful and part of the cause of the obesity epidemic? What is the cause of the obesity/associate disease epidemic when looking at the latest science? Should we reexamine our own personal bias on these subjects, (as I have don't myself), or just keep on relying on our old dogmatic beliefs? Were the statements Stephan made in his video inappropriate? So I'll have to ask you a question in return, and as you misrepresented your question to me, I'm doing the same to you by using a generalization on your feelings on the topic. Obesity and it's associated diseases, (Heart disease and stroke, High blood pressure, Diabetes, Cancer, Gallbladder disease and gallstones, Osteoarthritis, Gout, Breathing problems), are in effectively epidemics. Why is it that you don't care about what society is doing with their bodies, whether purposefully or inadvertently? My bad assumption. Sorry about that.

Um, since when have I tried to make this a point of right or wrong? If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I'm very open minded, tried many different diets on myself, and still use a combination. The only close mindedness I see in the discussion are from yourself and wdiaz03. Wow, I guess you're all excited and proud of yourself that you made a point which was true. You have humbled me and I'm so ashamed. From what I can infer you both seem to be Moral Vegans and, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I find that many Moral Vegans tend to be Authoritarians. Since Moral Vegans are selecting their diet based on moral rather than health reason, they have the tendency to want to want to inflict their beliefs on others. What a stupid example of offering someone a million dollars if they work out for 5 hours a week. I guess it's like fear factor, and these idiots are offered $50,000. If you've got the million please make me the offer and I'll gladly work out for 5 hours a day. When you pay me I'll go back to my 3 day/30 minutes a day workout and laugh all the way to the bank, (or probably convert them to Bitcoins). Where did I state that each person isn't different and one diet fits all? My diet changes all the time and is still in flux as I experiment on myself. I'm not trying to promote any one diet. As for not respecting fellow posters that comes with the territory when fellow posters have no respect for whole swaths of the population. If obesity was a race rather than just a condition I would have pegged him as a racist rather than just a prejudice. I'm so happy for you that you won one of the arguments, where no argument was implied, and tripped me up. My shame. Now you can take your Soya Bean Ball and go home.

This is true which shows how difficult it is for people to keep up an exercise regime. Now strap a 40 extra pound weight to your body and try hitting the gym This should give you an idea of what it's like to exercise, or walk for that matter, if you are obese. It also shows that a lot of people do have the underlying motivation to become healthier, but find it difficult to make it into a lifelong habit out of exercising. This is also reflected in the number of people who have purchased diet books, tried diets and failed, tried diets, succeeded in loosing the weight, then gained all of the weight back after two years. It takes a long time to form a habit of going to the gym, changing diet, etc. This article seems to say it averages at about 66 days. So, 66 days so that working out a the gym is not just a matter of willpower. http://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/hbrc/2012/06/29/busting-the-21-days-habit-formation-myth/ I think that most people want to loose weight and be healthier. The question is, are they getting the correct advise on how to proceed. We haven't discussed some of the latest science on exercise that has come out lately regarding frequency, intensity, type, and rest. You'll probably think me an idiot when I state that probably the most important aspect is the latter, (Yes, being a sloth). Of course I have my own opinions on this subject and the science is always progressing. Here is what I read into it: "Hey you obese, lazy, overeating sloths who brought this on yourself! Why don't you go down to the gym and exercise. You can hang out with those steroid popping body builders and the pretty boys and girls. Oh, but by the way, I do respect you, so not hard feelings". So in one post you managed to insult obese people, body builders, good looking people, and people who go to the gym in general. Then you topped it off with a holier than though attitude about respect. So your whole post was very prejudicial and seeing that you targeted 4 groups in just two paragraphs, I would judge you a to be prejudice in general and arrogant to boot. Forgive me if I'm incorrectly judging your personality but I can only go by what I read, and read into, your posts. So this also brings me back to Stephans comments in the video: "Don't give me this bullshit that everybody has some thyroid problem. No! People eat too much and don't exercise." and "...they're generally such an unhealthy group of people that they desperately need all the medications that keep their fat asses walking around. " In my opinion these statements are extremely prejudicial.

http://www.gyminsight.com/blog/2013/05/most-current-fitness-industry-statistics/ "According to the IHRSA statistics, the number of health club or gym memberships has increased from 41.3 million in 2005 to 50.2 million in 2012." I do go to a gym and there are a lot of people there, many overweight, some obese, most there for health reasons. The steroid jocks are by far the minority, and please do tell me what's so bad about wanting to look good?Why don't you do two seconds of research before posting your bullshit?

Here's a link to the a study done in Japan about red meat and cancer. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/73040.php It's just one study so you can take that with a grain of salt. I've also noticed a lot of chat about sugar and cancer growth. Here is a link to they Mayo clinic stating it is a myth. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cancer-causes/CA00085/NSECTIONGROUP=2 "This misconception may be based in part on a misunderstanding of positron emission tomography (PET) scans, which use a small amount of radioactive tracer — typically a form of glucose. All tissues in your body absorb some of this tracer, but tissues that are using more energy — including cancer cells — absorb greater amounts. For this reason, some people have concluded that cancer cells grow faster on sugar. But this isn't true. " Here is a study saying that one specific type of sugar "truncated O-glycans" aid in the growth and spread of cancer. This is September 23, 2013 study so very recent so the Mayo clinic web site is probably just out of date. http://www.oncologynurseadvisor.com/specific-sugar-molecule-causes-growth-of-cancer-cells/article/312933/ "For 30 years, many scientists have worked on using the truncated 0-glycans as biomarkers for diagnostics and outcome predictions. Now, this research team has finally pinpointed the significance of these sugar molecules, which actually cause the cancer cells to grow and the cancer to spread more aggressively." I found a link to a video of Dr, Jameth Sheridan which I thought I'd share since he'sbeing interviewed by John Kohler who has two YouTube channels, "Growing your Greens" and "Discount Juicers". I love organic gardening, eat tons of raw foods and like to juice vegetables, and fruits (less now and fruits low sugar ). I kind of started on this quest after watching the movie "Sick Fat and Almost Dead" which is how I was feeling at the time. I did a 30 day fast which was interesting, and am still doing research. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFNFGgGGi8U He certainly makes it sound like staying on a Vegan diet is difficult and requires a lot of forethought and diligence. As for Paleo, (especially the later, less restrictive versions), I find that they are it much easier to follow since they are quite flexible. I have found that Vegan and Paleo diets have a lot of commonalities. Stress fresh organic foods, Lots of vegetables and leafy greens, moderation and variety of the foods, etc. Where I find the two camps differ as follows I would consider Paleo basically amoral, except that they do stress grass fed and free range, ethical kill/butchering since they don't want extra hormons in the meat that are released during butchering. Vegans tend to come in two camps. The ones doing it for health reasons, (Health Vegans) and the ones doing it for moral reasons, (Moral Vegans). Paleos and Health Vegans tend to have minimal conflicts since they are both striving to achieve the goal of optimal health. Paleos and Moral Vegans tend to have conflicts which I believe does not come from their difference in food choices but their general belief systems. In general Paleos tend to be libertarian, whereas Moral Vegans tend to be authoritarian. This is just my observation on the trends I've observed in each of the groups. One moral argument for Vegetarian/Vegans that I find very compelling is the statement: "If I can kill it, I'll eat it". This is a very personal which can't be used to dictate your beliefs on others.

My example was based on your statement: "Stefan is citing statistics and general trends.". I did the same thing but replace the statistics about Obese people in general to black people. It was just to make a point.I guess another example is to bring this issue into one of Stephan's favorite issues of children.http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htmSo I can't replace "Black" with "Children", but when the children turn 16, (adults, no longer the responsibility of their parents), they automatically get lumped into Stephan's original statements and should get off their lazy asses, eat properly and exercise.Regarding choice, most of the "choices" were made under the advise of the government, media, and doctors. For example, my mother switching from butter to margarine. Most people believe the food guild which is posted in every doctors office. Eat a diet high in carbohydrates.My contention is that we are now living through the consequences of these recommendations.Watch the videos by Gary Taube. This is an interesting directions for research. Do you know if any studies differentiated between the types of fats consumed? animal vs vegetable, saturated vs unsaturated, processed vs cold processed?

I guess I can bring in some other statistics from the CDC for a demonstration:http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsObesityAdults/"Compared with whites, blacks had 51% higher and Hispanics had 21% higher obesity rates"And then change Stephan's statements to:"Don't give me this bullshit that everybody has some thyroid problem. No! Blacks eat too much and don't exercise." and "...they're generally such an unhealthy group of people that they desperately need all the medications that keep their fat blacks asses walking around. "I think this could be problematic.

Actually the thread has kind of skewed from my original intention? I wanted to talk about a couple of ethical things: Was Stephan's comments in the video offensive and insensitive? As I've mentioned earlier, 3 weeks ago I would not have been offended. Now, after watching Dr. Attia's video, I was offended. Did Stephan us the logical fallacy "correlation does not imply causation"? So the correlation/causation leads into the question: Does obesity cause all of the other diseases that seem to coencide with it, (Diabetes, Heart Disease, Cancer etc.) or is it just a symptom of some other underlying disease/environmental factor that causes them all? What is the underlying mechanism causing fat retention/loss? The majority of people who loose weight on a diet gain it all back within a year or two. Why is that? How much willpower does an average person have? Is it a limited resource? If not, then in make sense that most people would break their diet due to lack of willpower. Are there mechanism to stop the cravings and the addictive nature of some foods? All of these diseases seem to increase rapidly after the introduction of the food guilds. Are these guilds a factor in the epidemic? I had a feeling that when I posted a video by Dr. Attia, (Popular in the Paleo world), that things may degenerated into a Vegan/Paleo debate. This debate should be moved to another thread.

Enough of the "appeal to ridicule" logical falacy. Naturally a debunking itself needs a debunking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVzZ9nuap8 http://www.paleostyle.com/?p=2143 I haven't found a debunking of the debunking of the debunking yet. Please note that in the section of the video where he states that the recommendations are coming from Christina Warriner, she leads in with this statement: "Can we take lessons from these paleolithic diets that we still can apply to our lives today and the answer is yes." On a side note. How do you link a youtube video into the forum? I've only found link and Image. H. I guess 1 - Ad Hominem, 2 - Appeal to Authority and 3 - Appeal to Ridicule are also up your alley.

Bulbasaur,It seems we've been studying the same authors. I'm still trying to sort of the plethora of information I've tried to absorb the last few weeks. I'm still a newbie on the topic. I recall hearing about a high fat diet a couple of years ago just laughed it off. Now, I'm not so sure, although at this time I would not want to try a ketogenic diet.Regarding carbohydrates, by the time you reach insulin resistance you have probably done some major damage, (perhaps unnoticed), to your body. Wouldn't it be wise to reduce the intake of carbohydrates to mitigate their cumulative affects? I'm not suggesting zero since there is a point of diminishing returns, (you probably don't want to worry about hitting insulin resistance at age 100).Of course, each of us different which is why I'm of the opinion to try things out for yourself and see what works. I guess I could be considered a bio-hacker. So far I've played around with juice fasting (actually did it for a whole month), vegan (yuk! I was always hungry), and now checking out a modified paleo with higher fats. Throughout, I have juiced regularly, eaten tons of vegetable, eliminated wheat, reduced most other grains and legumes. I have also resistance trained for about 30 minutes a day 3 times per week.I do feel pretty damn good now, (probably better than I've felt in the last 20 years). I've lost about 32 pounds, (200 down to 168), belly reduced from 42 - 34.5 inches.

CrazyCunuck, From what I recall HFCS and other sugars are considered carbohydrates. As for toxins from plastics I agree that these should be investigated, not just for possibility of them causing obesity, but their other deleterious effects, (being an estrogen mimic for example). I try to stay away from them as much as possible. As for my posts or Dr. Attia's presentation, I find your statement "it is not simple, cut and dry as you think it is.", baffling. I can't find anywhere that that has been stated. I've added a somewhat large transcript of the presentation to demonstrate this. "I have my own ideas about what could be at the heart of this, but I'm wide open to others. Now, my hypothesis, because everybody always asks me, is this. If you ask yourself, what's a cell trying to protect itself from when it becomes insulin resistant, the answer probably isn't too much food. It's more likely to much glucose: blood sugar. Now, we know that refined grains and starches elevate your blood sugar in the short run, and there's even reason to believe that sugar may lead to insulin resistance directly. So if you put these physiological processes to work, I'd hypothesize that it might be our increased intake if refined grains, sugars and starches that's driving this epidemic of obesity and diabetes, but through insulin resistance, you see, and not necessarily through just overeating and under- exercising. When I lost my 40 pounds a few years ago I did it simply by restricting those things, which admittedly suggests I have a bias based on my personal experience. But that doesn't mean my bias is wrong, and most important, all of this can be tested scientifically. But step one is accepting the possibility that our current beliefs about obesity, diabetes and insulin resistance could be wrong and therefore must be tested. I'm betting my career on this. Today, I devote all of my time to working on this problem and I'll go wherever the science takes me. I've decided that what I can't and won't do anymore is pretend I have the answers when I don't. I've been humbled enough by all I don't know. For the past year, I've been fortunate enough to work on this problem with the most amazing team of diabetes and obesity researchers in the country, and the best part is, just like Abraham Lincoln surrounded himself with a team of rivals, we've done the same thing. We've recruited a team of scientific rivals, the best and brightest who all have different hypotheses for what's at the heart of this epidemic. Some think it's too many calories consumed. Others think it's too much dietary fat. Other think it's too many refined grains and starches. But this team of multidisciplinary, highly skeptical and exceedingly talented researchers do agree on two things. First this problem is too important to continue ignoring because we think we know the answer. And two, if we're willing to be wrong, if we're willing to challenge the conventional wisdom with the best experiments science can offer, we can solve this problem." Perhaps you neglected to actually watch the video prior to posting your response.... If you catch my drift.

I think that I should apologize for my "go fuck yourself" statement but I was expecting replies like: "Don't give me this bullshit that everybody has some thyroid problem. No! People eat too much and don't exercise." and "...they're generally such an unhealthy group of people that they desperately need all the medications that keep their fat asses walking around. "Yes, I pulled them out of Stephan's video. Here's a link to the video I'm commenting on (go to around the 4:00 minute mark):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX43DaFlgeII can't say that I'm not guilty of this sentiment myself. If you talked to me 3 weeks ago, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with Stephan's statement. Similarly, if you asked me what I thought of Anarchist 3-4 years ago, I would have said: "You mean those assholes that burn and break things at demonstrations. They're assholes.". This, not knowing that I was actually an anarchist myself but was blinded to its true meaning by the government and media. I discovered this through Stephan's podcast.I do think there are a lot of avenues for discussion on diet/health issues especially since I believe you can place a majority of the blame on the government itself via the "Canada food guide" and the "US food guide pyramid". Government got involved in nutrition and we are now suffering the consequences.

This is a reply to Stephans' latest video "The Obamacare Extension - Government Without Painkillers". It is not replying to the video in general, but Stephans' comments on Obesity. My first note is that correlation does not imply causation. I'll start you off watching this Ted talk by Dr. Peter Attia. For your information Dr. Attia is on a ketogenic diet, (High fat, adequate protein, low carbohydrate). http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes.html If you are to lazy to spend 15 minutes watching the video and still comment negatively on this post you can go fuck yourself. So in general my research seems to point to the fact that our obesity epidemic and all of it's corresponding diseases seem to be related to diet. The question is whether obesity is a symptom rather than a cause of the epidemic of diseases. It seems to me that most of the problems stem from the change to our diet in the 70's when the government started to promote a diet of low fat, high carbohydrate and trying to avoid all saturated fats. I recall in my childhood when this first came out that my mother automatically got rid of the butter and switched over to margarine, reduced the eggs and bacon, and cut way back on saturated fat. Today in her 80's she is still eating margarine, is on Anti-Statin drugs and in turn has dementia, (yes correlation does not imply causation). If you wish to watch some videos on the topic here is a series on fat. This is just a start and may be biased since they do sell books but an interesting series of video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEWc5fL04o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-meOl6vyLHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqPmJHEEw4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIEDYbGJsmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E0pFl370Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH5wquzbtAY I have a lot more to discuss about this topic but will cut it short to not overload anyone. Some of the proposed discussions are: High fat/Low carbohydrate vs. Low fat/High carbohydrate diets Canadian and American food guilds, (I believe the cause of the obesity/disease crisis. Hydrogenated oils Palio vs. Vegan/vegetarian diets. Bacon Will spam be discovered as the ultimate health food. My diet choices and weight loss/health over the last 6 months. Bio-hacking etc. It should be noted that the Palio group tend to be very libertarian so feel that this is a great discussion topic for this forum. I hope that you will spend some time doing some research on this top and most of all watch Dr. Attia's video. After watching it it changed my attitude when seeing an obese person from total disgust to one of sympathy and empathy. Thanks, Henry

Thanks you. The video was very helpfull and answered all of my questions. Henry