kirk paolinelli

"In addition to this entire dog issue not necessarily shedding any light on humans, it's also worth noting that you don't see too many fighting poodles." You don't see many 5'0" nba players, doesn't mean people 5'0" tall can't be taught to play basketball.

What dogs can't be trained to be vicious or fighting? I don't believe this to be true. Some breeds are more vicious than others. But even those breeds can be raised to be social pets. I'm not arguing against the importance of genetics, I'm arguing their importance relative to how those genes are nurtured. So you would rather choose the breed on that bet?

"Nobody is questioning if children should be abused. The question is whether we are at a point where we can say with solidity "Yes we are confident that childhood trauma is the primary driver of violence/aggression and thus should be our main strategic focus" or if we are at a point where we still do not know the primary driver(s) of violence/aggression and thus more research is required before drawing a conclusion as to the best strategy." I'm still not sure why it is important whether childhood trauma is the primary driver of violence and aggression. And what do you mean by "our main strategic focus"? Also when you talk about the burden of proof, what kind of proof are you looking for? I mean scientific trials would not be possible for something like this because childhood trauma could come from parents, siblings, relatives, teachers, friends, classmates There are too many variables. That's why I asked the question about the dogs not to discredit you. It to me is just simpler way to look at the effects of nurture, dogs enviornment is pretty constant, Where as kids have many more influences and are at greater risk of mental abuse. I thought that question would help you see my perspective. I guess maybe you haven't been around dogs or just don't see the correlation I do. Also when say "more research is required before drawing a conclusion as to the best strategy" , What kind of research would meet your burden of proof? In this area I don't think you will ever get anything better than correlations and theory, or at least I can't imagine how you would. As for best strategy. What do you think of mine? To live your life free of using violence or aggression towards others.

I'm do not feel i'm asking pointless questions. I'm honestly interested in your answers. To me it really doesn't matter what Stef thinks the causal reasons for aggression or if he has any proof of it. It would be the arguement from effect. You shouldn't abuse children or anyone for that matter because it's wrong. What I do believe though. Is that neither you nor tron would answer my dog question. Which by the way you haven't answered. I think this is because you both have a gut feeling as well about how much nuture matters. As tron stated in reference to my question, that different breeds have different tempermants. This is true but it is nowhere near as important as how the dog is raised. They train fighting dogs to be vicious. Even a pit bull needs training.

"- Is childhood trauma the primary reason for violence/aggression in our world?" Do you think there is any way to prove this, at this point and time? The best I think you can get is a theory. But less violence/aggression towards children would be automatically less violence/aggression in the world. Which I think everyone would agree is a good thing. "Should reducing childhood trauma, strategically, be the #1 objective for those who want to create a peaceful, healthy, sustainable world?" I would think living your life free of using violence or aggression towards others would be the best way. Your own actions are really the only thing you can control. I'm interested to know what you think? Why does it matter if its the primary reason for violence/aggression? If childhood trauma is a reason but not the primary reason does that make a big difference to you? Or do you believe it has nothing to do with it? What do you believe is the primary reason? Genetics? I believe we are not nearly at a point where we can say with much confidence that nurture, rather than nature, is primarily responsible for the violence/aggression in the world. I would guess it is some combination of both and we can't yet pinpoint what that is. Even Stefan claims to be agnostic on this, but I don't think his work usually reflects that agnosticism and often it seems to pretty solidly be based on the nurture side of things. Yes we all agree we should reduce childhood trauma as best we can. But how that relates to reducing the larger issues of violence/aggression (whether it is a massive impact or a minor impact) we don't know yet. The question is whether there is some other factor that is crucial. And if you too blindly buy into one side of this debate prematurely, you stop looking for those other factors as hard. Perhaps there is indeed a significant genetic component, for example. And people should be seeking that out just as strongly as they seek out environmental causes. Until we have a solid answer, we should avoid bias. And remember that there are implications even for simply stating a stance. If you say that violence/aggression are based in trauma, then you are implying that parents who have a violent/aggressive child were abusers. If you're wrong, that is a terrible false accusation. And that's just one example. Taking stands on these types of issues has consequences and should not be done lightly. If your goal is to bring about a healthier, more sustainable, more peaceful world, then of course it matters what you think is the primary strategic way to do that. "The question is whether there is some other factor that is crucial." What do you think are possible factors? What do you think is the crucial factor? "And if you too blindly buy into one side of this debate prematurely, you stop looking for those other factors as hard." I think this is a little insulting to use the word "blindly", I think there has been plenty of studies and evidence used by Stef. I know for me, a lot of this just makes sense at gut level with what i've seen and experienced in my life. Have you had experiences that contraindicate the theory that abuse towards children leads to more abuse? And I'm talking in the general sense. Also I posted this question earlier. I have a question to you as far as nature vs. nuture. If we were going to make financial bet as to whether dog was vicious, and we had some standard to measure this when the dog was full grown. But you have a choice to pick the breed or how it's raised what would you choose? What would you choose? This I think goes a long way telling us how much effect nuture has on an idividual.

"- Is childhood trauma the primary reason for violence/aggression in our world?" Do you think there is any way to prove this, at this point and time? The best I think you can get is a theory. But less violence/aggression towards children would be automatically less violence/aggression in the world. Which I think everyone would agree is a good thing. "Should reducing childhood trauma, strategically, be the #1 objective for those who want to create a peaceful, healthy, sustainable world?" I would think living your life free of using violence or aggression towards others would be the best way. Your own actions are really the only thing you can control. I'm interested to know what you think? Why does it matter if its the primary reason for violence/aggression? If childhood trauma is a reason but not the primary reason does that make a big difference to you? Or do you believe it has nothing to do with it? What do you believe is the primary reason? Genetics?

I k It's quite well known that particular dog breeds have particular innate behavioral traits, and varied levels of innate intelligence. I noticed you didn't answer the question. Is there a paticular reason why?

I have a question to you as far as nature vs. nuture. If we were going to make financial bet as to whether dog was vicious, and we had some standard to measure this when the dog was full grown. But you have a choice to pick the breed or how it's raised what would you choose? I know for me I would choose how its raised everytime.