lbnuke

I recently read the mises.org article that Stef read in this video about climate change in 12 minutes. I had heard the podcast before, but the article provides graphical representations of both the model supporting the case FOR climate change, the model for the case in OPPOSITION to climate change (man-made, global-warming, etc.), and the actual data. I found this article to be concise and efficient at explaining where the case FOR climate change falls flat on its face. While I don't know enough about CO2 emissions and their link to temperature rise on Earth (air, atmospheric, ground, or ocean temps) to say I have an opinion either way, I don't think the link to temp rise is causal with CO2. Howevet, that's not the point of my post. I work for a company that specializes in renewable energy certification, technical and contract review, and estimates that support funding for renewable energy projects. As such, many of the people that I work with, and come in contact with, on a daily basis, have drunk the climate-ade and mock people that are skeptical of the conclusions. This verbally occurs at meetings with mocking tone and laughing by most, but not all. A top technical expert in our field recently attended an internal program that presented some of the conclusions of the big data analysis regarding climate change and those conclusions painted a doom and gloom scenario for our world, of course, which left some of the people, specifically in the group I work, feeling down, depressed, angry, and motivated to do something. Quite a mix of emotions. So, in an effort to help bring some light to the situation, I thought of sharing this article with my co-workers, those I work with on a daily basis, with hopes of presenting the alternative to the mainstream opinion for the sake of discussion and perhaps bringing some relief to a gloomy scenario presented by the case FOR climate change. Even now, when I type this, I get nervous thinking about sending that email out and what the consequences are for me within my colleague circles at work. Stef has discussed and is very key in pointing out that it is the slaves that monitor each other and that it's horizontal, not vertical, social forces that influence our decision making more. However, I was also motivated by one of Stef's recent podcasts encouraging us to reach out, speak with reason and evidence, curiosity, and humility about these things. I wanted to share this because of the experience of myself internally. Some of the thoughts I have or questions to myself include: why do I do what I do professionally (I'm a civil/structural/electrical engineer specializing in solar energy)? does working for this company and doing what I do professionally present a value separation or disagreement within me? if I send this out to my team, what will their responses be? will sending out this article affect my professional future? Any feedback is appreciated.

Hey Liberty! Thanks for posting and organizing. I love the image to accompany the meetup. Unfortunately, I can't make it; we're prepping for the holiday, finishing up school work for the term, and at year end for my job in supporting some financial closing. Please keep me updated on anything that's coming up after the New Year. I'm definitely interested in meeting face-to-face in San Diego with others from FDR. I met an old acquaintance from grade school at a meetup through FDR when I first started listening to/reading Stef and we still stay in close contact. It's the highlight of my month/quarter when the two of us get to hang out.

This is a great question and a good topic to share experiences on. I have two little ones (6 and 1) and we're approaching this type of thing with the Holidays here in the US and, specifically, Santa Claus. Have you considered just asking questions of the boy? I don't know his situation, but he may still be naturally extremely curious and find the questions good tinder to start his brain to think rationally. For example, you can sympathize with his opinion in understanding that some people believe that bacon is bad and then ask "Why do you think bacon is bad?". Asking the question, in my opinion, is a sign of curiosity to the boy that you're interested in what his opinions are and what he has to say. Also, this type of questioning would allow the parents to step in at any time prior to there being any conflict. I'd be interested in following how this develops and if you take any steps further. I've found that when dealing with my son's (6 y.o.) best friends saying things that I don't agree with, that sympathizing with them is the best first step. For example, my son has a friend that is very devout Catholic. When he hears a siren, he says a little prayer. I was with him one time when we heard a siren and he said "we should say a prayer because someone probably got hurt". I thought this was very thoughtful of him and responded "wow, that's a good thing to think about doing, I like that you think of others in that way and are concerned about their health." The conversation didn't go further... he's six :-). But I'd like to think that I can establish a good history with this boy and his family and at some point in the future, the conversations can go deeper.

The link to the San Diego RSVP has expired. Can you verify and re-post? I live in San Diego and am interested in meeting up.

I'm currently serving on a jury, about to begin deliberation in a criminal trial, where the "victims" are minors who the prosecution claims have the protection of the law since they are not "of age" to rationally or reasonably make decisions about their lives. I'm torn because there are clearly victims in this incident, as presented by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt, however, I don't agree with the justice system as the proper means to deal with convicts of this nature. Are there crimes where the state does currently have the best solution to protect those that are preyed upon? I fault the parents of the minors a great deal for allowing their children to be in the circumstances which lead to the incident, but they're not on trial, nor is there a proper mechanism by which parents are brought to justice in our current system. The circumstances testified to by witnesses, victims, and the defendant them self put the defendant at fault for the crime and in clear violation of the law. If I support a GUILTY verdict, I'm providing my consent for the full force of the legal and executive system to ravish this person's life, place them in a prison where they will be preyed upon and raped, and likely not receive the psychological aid that they are in so much need of, considering the details of the case. However, if I support a NOT GUILTY verdict, I am supporting this person in their return to the streets where they can continue to pursue this lifestyle that clearly puts minors in danger for their person and potentially their lives. However, I know that a person's freedom is restored. I apologize for being vague, but I am still sitting on the jury and cannot release specific details of the case. Looking for feedback and specific, logical, rational discussion about the topic. FYI, there is little chance for jury nullification in this trial. The offenses being claimed and prosecuted are of such a nature that to nullify the law would remove the legal protection of many minors and children that currently do not have the support of parents or the community in their protection.

awt, I want to thank you for your post and commend you on your courage to post this topic and your experiences here with the group. I'm sorry that you're in the situation that you're in especially with your daughter. I also have a 5-year old son and am in a similar situation with my wife: escalating conversations, name-calling, etc. I want to let you know that I'm interested in hearing more about your experience and how you have found success in any way you find it. When I've tried to use the RTR approach with my wife, the conversation turns to me being fucked up, me being called names, and her thinking that I'm throwing the guilt card at her. I just want to share that experience with you because RTR is your choice to use or not; it's not a requirement to move forward. However, Stef clearly states that bringing RTR to a situation usually brings you to a point where it will work going forward, or you'll have the closure that you need emotionally that you need. Either way, the conclusion will present itself. Do you and your wife agree on your parenting styles and how you'd like to raise your daughter? If you agree, do you implement your parenting in different ways or the same ways? Do you think that you had an established value system when you met and courted your wife? I ask this because I think that over time, values can change, especially if they're not rooted in the non-aggression principle and voluntary exchange.

I had a professional experience I'd like to share that I think is a good example of implementing voluntarism into my professional life. I am a licensed professional engineer. I had a client that I did work with for about 6 months who used my stamp and signature in my absence, without my permission. This is fraudulent and a form of identity theft. I discovered this through working with another, mutual client of ours. I found a set of drawings with my stamp and signature that I didn't work on. Tracing the paper trail, I found the client who used it without my permission, while I was on vacation. Once discovered, I called that client, but only got his voicemail. I called the local police where I live to ask what to do. They said the complaint must be made in the jurisdiction where the crime took place (different than my home). So, I called the jurisdiction where the crime took place and they instructed me to file a report with my local police and then file for a transfer to their jurisdiction. Things complicated further when I mentioned that this client operated in a third jurisdiction, in a different state. I called the police where the client operates and they said they can't do anything unless the report and complaint came from the jurisdiction where the crime took place. So... plan in mind: put together the evidence (emails, phone calls, documentation, etc.), make copies, go to my local police to file a report, transfer that report to the jurisdiction where the crime took place, that jurisdiction investigates, contacts the jurisdiction local to my client, we get lawyers involved, mitigate, potentially litigate (blah, blah, blah). Seeing this as the option that the state had for me, I wanted to act in a voluntary manner and leave the state out. I then spoke with a fellow FDR member about options. We discussed non-police action and staying out of the courts. He really liked the idea that I came up with. I finally got through to the client and explained my thinking and that I didn't think that either of us would want to go through that process. I then told him I would send him a proposed contract, similar to our standard professional services agreement. I've attached that agreement in its executed form, with names and projects greyed out for confidentiality. This agreement essentially put forth a plan of action where I would take over professional liability for the work that was done in my absence, after reviewing the documentation and performing the necessary calculations to verify that the work is suitable for installation. It also required that my client acknowledge the fraudulent activity that was done. We agreed to my standard fee plus 20% to cover for the extra work involved in executing, heart-ache, etc. The client was very thankful of this approach. While I specifically told him we won't do business together, he was thankful to not get involved in the court system. When I spoke with other engineers that I practice with about what I had chosen to do, they were outraged. "You should contact the state license board!" "Your should sue him and put him out of business!!" "What's to stop him from doing it again if he only pays a 20% premium?!?". While these are valid concerns for society's status quo for approaching these situations, I don't like society's solutions and do not want to point guns at people to solve the problems. This man didn't pose a direct threat to myself or my family and was treated as such. I then thought about the "what's to stop him from doing it again" phrase, brought up by A LOT OF PEOPLE who heard about my choice to pursue this action. I simply responded with "what's to stop him if we go through the courts? He clearly has my stamp and signature on his computer (.jpeg file) and can use it as he wishes. This is true whether the state is involved or not. My way, I have an open admittance of his guilt, he fessed up to the choice he made, the proper parties (common clients we share) were notified and know what happened. Actually, he's in a worse situation now because some of his best clients won't work with him anymore after this incident. So... tell me, what would stop him in your world?". About 50% of people understood this and agreed with my point. Also, because the state is our foregone conclusion for how to handle these types of conflicts, not many people build this type of negotiation into their contracts BEFORE THIS TYPE OF THING HAPPENS. This is very unfortunate, as a simple one-page summary identifying a path and party to resolving these disputes would help resolve these issues without involving the heavy hand of the state. Does anyone else have similar experiences they can share? What do you think of the approach that I took?

David, I don't know your life situation at all, age, income, relationship status, history with your FOO, etc. However, I can speak to the biological imperative that drives all of us at an animal level. We in the FDR community are striving to properly combine the rationality of the frontal cortex in making sound decisions with a rational understanding of the impulses we feel associated with the reptilian brain stem as a better way to understand the world we live in, survive and thrive. I agree with Kevin that you don't need a reason to not have kids; not having kids does not require action. You don't need a reason to do nothing. However, from my experience, the reasons for having kids should be thought about, pondered, discussed, and well understood, as the responsibility associated with the action of that decision means another human being comes into the world. There are many people to contribute to the world without having kids. What are you long term goals and do they include kids?

I watched the short video and read the short article at the link below and am curious what the FDR community has as a translation of the one ring to the power of violence/government/coercion, etc. http://kottke.org/15/02/lotrs-one-ring-explainer Does anyone have suggestions?

I would start with the curiosity to ask what they mean by Somalia. Wouldn't the fact that the country still has a name, is recognized as a legitimite country be a counter to their own argument? OR Try arguing their point for them. What about Somalia makes it resemble what you think is anarchy?

This story comes up every year for me. My wife, parents, sister, and friends all give me grief about choosing the path I choose: to not perpetuate the myth of Santa Claus with my kids or any others. VParkh, I appreciate the sharing of the perspective of the older sibling that, although already akin to the story of Santa Clause and the lie it is, is asked to continue the lie. How proper is this in representing the myth of country, family, culture, religion, etc.? My most challenging discussions in this matter are with people who openly admit it's wrong to lie to our children, but then continue the story, myth, and mystery of Santa Clause. And I find that most people cannot connect the two. My frustration arises when these same people want a smooth, respectful transition through the teenage years, without seeing the psychological priming that the parents are committing the children to by lies like Santa Clause, the easter bunny, Jesus, religion, god, etc. What I also find hard to swallow this time of year is the elf on the shelf. For those of you that don't know the story, there is a stuffed animal elf that moves throughout the house each day, watching the children and reporting back to Santa about whether the children are being good or not. When the children are acting out, the elf is then pointed to and referenced as reporting to Santa about their behavior. I'm no psychologist, but I would like to hear some of the experts speak on the matter, specifically dealing with Christmas.

I recently watched Christopher Nolan's new movie Interstellar twice in a few days. It usually takes me two or three times watching a movie to best grasp the themes and catch the key lines, events, etc. During my second time watching the film, the following scene and quote really stood out to me: "Once you're a parents, you become the ghosts of your children's future." Since coming to FDR and learning more about peaceful parenting, child developmental cognitive science, and child psychology, I have radically changed my expectations with regards to being a parent and the role that I have as a father. I have a month old daughter at home, as well as a 5 year old son. Culminating all that I've learned since my son was born I can see why, psychologically, people are drawn to ghosts, angels, demons, and gods in their adult lives. When we see angels portrayed in movies, or even ghosts for that matter (they're all the same), the experience is quite similar to what an infant is going through. Large, fuzzy figures that make muffled noises at a distance and only upon approach do these figures start to sharpen to become people, and only at a close, intimate distance, do faces appear that the child can then recognize and find comfort (or pain) in seeing. The parallels between how a child perceives the world from its first consciousness in the womb through to self realization and the religious/spiritual experiences that adults portray in their literature and film are staggering. My daughter loves just looking up at my face (although bearded) and staring, while I make small noises and do my best to ensure her security, warmth, comfort, and feeding. If only others could understand that our connection with these angles, demons, or gods comes not through the spiritual, but is a fundamental representation of our own experience as growing cognitive beings, I think there would be a lot of progress towards parenting peacefully, objectively, and intimately. I guess that angels, demons, and gods ARE the ghosts of those peoples' pasts, i.e. their parents (or caretaker, authority figures, etc.) from past experiences that are pre-cognition and locked in the sub-conscious brain. As for me, I want my children to know my future ghost as loving, calm, patient, thought provoking, and protective, while recognizing and honoring their individuality. Anyone else have any thoughts? Anyone see Interstellar and get something else out of the movie that may have stood out to you?

So... to expand, how do we as parents raise our children to have the power, initiative, and confidence to make decisions for themselves? I find that I will want to lecture my son about my conclusions about what will happen if he chooses a certain course of action rather than ask him about it. There's not much that a 5 year old can communicate about the motivations and impulses to do A vs. B, but they can make the base decision of A or B.

I found out a key piece of information about this after my wife and I discussed it. This woman and her husband cannot control themselves around candy. Wow, who would have thought? So, in essence, they can't control them selves, so they need to project that lack of control onto their children, who also love candy, and will likely not be able to control themselves because of this imposed control on the part of their parents. I am one to avoid conflict, especially in a room of my wife's friends (they're closer to her, and my wife gets upset with I discuss contentious topics with our friends at our house). And, the downside of the contentious conversation would be that everyone at the table would disagree with me and likely start speaking in another language. That says a lot about me and what psychological blocks I have, and my ability to remain gracious, Socratic, and kind in pointing out flaws in peoples' conclusions. Thoughts?

I wanted to share an experience that I had with the board. I don't quite know what I expect to get out of posting it, perhaps some feedback, some thoughts, or just to share my experience. Here it is. Today I realized, while presenting a Halloween candy option to a friend of ours, that thinking about options that are outside the mainstream is contentious and typically get a conclusionary response in return, hence bypassing the process of thinking and rationalizing out a real solution. Here's the scenario: We have a group of friends over to our house. Two couples, one with two boys, the other with one boy. All are under 8 years old. My son has kept his bag of candy from Halloween in his room for about 2 weeks now. Mostly, he forgets it's there and we don't have him shying away to hide in his cave and binge on candy. However, during the time that these 3 additional boys were in our house, the bag came out of the drawer that our son kept it in and the 4 boys started walking around the house eating candy. Naturally, the parents were curious about where the kids had received this candy. I shared that my son's candy stash was in his room and he's managing it. I then mentioned a side story as something that I would like to do different, if given the opportunity. That other option goes this this: Take my son trick-or-treating at age 3, or even 2, for about an hour, maximum. Thus, his candy stash would be limited to roughly 20-30 pieces of candy. Once the night is over, I would talk with my son about what sugar does to teeth, what it does to our digestive system, how it makes him feel, and the values of good nutrition. Most importantly, I would stress that the candy he received is his and he can with it as he sees fit. I would also present an option to donate the candy somehow (but certainly not to the vets, as most other places so virtuously advertise :-). The purpose of this is that the child 'earned' the candy and can be left responsible to manage the candy as they see fit. It's a small enough portion of candy that it would not damage my son permanently due to the sugar content alone, and it's a chance to share responsibility and educate my son. I didn't take the time to explain this situation in detail to this dinner guest. I said that I would like to take my son for an hour (20 - 30 pieces of candy), then explain the importance of a healthy lifestyle and candy's role (or lack thereof) in that lifestyle, but then leave the managing of the candy to him. When the candy's gone, it's gone. This dinner guest, and her husband, then said that children don't know any better, that that would never work, and it's not a good idea at all. Now as a side note, my wife is from another country and all of these friends are as well. As such, they were speaking a foreign language to me for most of the conversation. After this woman and her husband made this comment, they switched back to speaking their native language, leaving the conversation with me essentially finished. What remained in my mind about this conversation was how quickly this couple doubled up to end the conversation by stating that kids can't be trusted with their own lives and making their own choices.

Along these same lines, I think that the woman should consider the time and effort she spent learning how to write apps, writing the app, talking about it with friends, and closing the app development compared to the time and effort she put in to fostering a positive, open communication with her son. Her history, discussed in the video in the article, is indicative of her drive for personal achievement, but not for the quality of parent that she is. Rather, the effort put in to the app is indicative of a lack of empathy for her teenage son, who she chose to provide a cell phone for. Sorry for the kid, he's back seat for attention to an app.

These are great posts and reposts. I can't help but laugh, still, when I read, hear or listen to: "Not Even Wrong - “2 + 2 = 5” is wrong; “2 + blue = unicorn” is “not even wrong.”

I think reading Plato's Republic, which I started, but never finished, would aid in the Socratic dialogue quite a bit. The book was stolen from me about a year ago and I haven't purchased another copy yet, but have been meaning to. Also, to add to my original post, I think that I like people to hear what I know and to tell them that I know things. I do consider myself to be quite knowledgeable about some things, specifically at work, but not in other areas.

Hi Everyone. I've been noticing, lately, a trend for me to begin lecturing people in conversations, and the trend is beginning to annoy me. I find that I lecture rather than converse in interactions with people. Does anyone have tips and/or methods to pull yourself out of a lecturing approach into a more curios approach wherein the conversation sounds more like progress along a path rather than a volley back and forth? Most of my conversations wind up sounding like a volley match, rather than a true interest in the other person or people in the conversation. I can think of a few: Change to asking questions, rather than making statements. If I do make statements, ask the other person's or people's opinions about the statement. Ask what the other parties' experience has been about a certain topic or discussion point. ??? Perhaps this is due to my tendency to want to get my opinion in, and get it in quickly in conversations as I feel my turn to speak as a kid either never happened, or I was steam rolled by two members of my family prior to getting my opinion out and discussed. My father and sister are both lawyers, myself an engineer, and my mom an accountant. I feel, not really verified at this point, that if I don't get my opinion in when I disagree with something, that there will be less time or no time for it later in the conversation. I know this is likely an irrational conclusion about the relationships I currently have, but I am very interested in improving my conversation, debate, and interpersonal skills with people and see this as a way in which I can improve.

Thank you all for the great responses. Luxfelix, the intent of the "boring parenting" title was more so surrounding the fact that I now find my parents to be rather boring to be around, which tells me that, other than my sports (baseball) life, I really didn't find their lives that interesting. I have identified that I am very similar to my father, who is emotionally separated and quite difficult to connect with on an emotional level. He and I have discussed this a bit, but this is certainly a subject I'd like to explore more with him. Thank you for pointing out that the boring parenting may not have been the appropriate title for this post and perhaps that is some insight into my outlook on things: i.e. I will title something negatively, when I am looking for a way to improve on a positive. Which certainly leads, in my opinion, to your comment regarding being too hard on myself. I have been too hard on myself and am working on improving that as well. James, you bring great questions to the table and, I think, you meant them more so for me to consider than for a response. I will spend some quality time thinking about those and how I would answer them in a more one-on-one situation. Ruben, you ask a great question. I think I connect best with my 5 year old self when I interact with my son and have conversations like this in real time, not necessarily on a forum or chat room. I'll post more in a bit, but I wanted to get some thoughts down here.

Ruben Z, thanks for the reply, and so quickly!! I enjoy the physical nature that you bring with your kids. My son is really into guns, shooting, space ships, etc. I may have exposed him to Star Wars a bit early in his life, so he has an infatuation with all things flying, shooting, and blowing up. We recently moved into a new house that allows us to play hide and seek more, and now with an added bonus: Nerf dart guns!! I think we'll both really enjoy this, but the dart guns are not part of the equation yet. I find that he will mimick my hiding places, but I am really fascinated and excited when he finds his own. There is lots of tickling, holding, wrestling with each other once we find each other in these games. I really delight in my son's ability to universalize things and figure out how things work in the physical world. Lately, he's been fascinated in becoming a scientist when he grows up, which really excites me. I hope to open doors for him to explore and expand upon and, more often than expand, redirect the education he is receiving from public school. So much of what young ones delight in in the world has to do with their psychical nature (sensory input, physical interaction, exploration, etc.) until they start to become more self aware, at which age, I don't know. I could be wrong. However, your reply helps me feel more grounded that the important way to connect with my son at his level is to crawl around in his skin as a 5 year old learning how the world works, and not try to make it about any emotional connections I'm trying to make. Further thoughts?

I wasn't sure whether to post this under Peaceful Parenting or Self Knowledge, but this is where I have chosen to place it. I look back on my childhood and see that both of my parents supported me academically, athletically, and financially. I do note, however, the strong absence of my father emotionally and have recently started to explore that. I wonder why in adulthood I am not excited to see my parents often and I think this is why: my father is emotionally unavailable and my mother intellectually unavailable. While I don't want to delve into the details here, I do want to ask for some advice. I have a 5 year old son and I want to make sure that I'm emotionally available for him. I am great at intellectual availability, but that doesn't require much self knowledge. In my opinion, intellectual availability without emotional connection is detrimental to a child's development, but that's just opinion. What do parents of young ones do to have fun, be emotionally available, and ensure that they're meeting their child's (children's) needs emotionally? I am somewhat at a loss for how to ensure my son sees all of me, that he sees my delight, and that I honor his delight?

I'm glad to see that psychology is considering taking a positive approach to video gaming and putting forward, what appears to be, a method to explore the benefits in a positive way. I have found that most people, myself included, have a negative view of video games when it comes to children spending their time in front of a screen vs. doing academic work. Additionally, I've found that my thoughts aren't based on any fact... other than the fact that my son get REALLY upset when video game or tv time is up, which is a related, but separate issue. As for Minecraft, I'm of the opinion that god mode in Minecraft (all weapons, tools, etc. and infinite life) is not beneficial to my son (4 years old). He spawns zombies by hatching their eggs, then kills them. He does this for hours. I've tried encouraging him to build rather than destroy, but he still resorts to killing zombies. One potential solution is to turn off god mode and allow the zombies to attack him. I'm thinking that if the zombies can actually hurt him, he will be more scared of them and not approach them until he is equipped to handle them. Anyone have any thoughts on my approach or care to share another? I really enjoy that Minecraft provides the experiences, as communicated in the video posted by luxfelix. There are some benefits that outweight the real world experiences because the child can take chances and die in the game, whereas taking those same chances in real life would result in injury to themselves or to others. Add this to the fact that the game can be played online within a community, and I'm reconsidering my position. I welcome the feedback!!

Thanks for sharing the valuable experience with me and the board. I'm excited that there are others that are living the life and willing to share experiences. When did your older children become more independent in their educational pursuits? My son is not yet at the stage where he'll run with an activity that we provide to him. I.e. when I give him coloring books that he enjoys, typically of super heroes, and ask that we have a period of quiet time, he still wants me to interact with him. I'm assuming that this will gradually decrease and the time he can sit and focus on a task will increase, if he has the proper energy outlets. I've experimented with keeping him home from preschool with me a few days and it's been challenging to say that least. However, I understand he's not used to the routine, so there would have to be an adjustment period. What part of the country do you live in? What do your children do for "social" activities? I think we're both beyond the "socializing" knee jerk reaction typical of speaking about alternative education techniques, but I'm always interested in what other children do with their time to encourage a healthy social interaction. I really like Dayna Martin's description of her 4 year old son who has friends in the close neighborhood that are 17, 82, 2, and 7 years of age, allowing the child to create their own friendships. Being social in a healthy environment is a large concern of mine with my son and my wife has concerns about an isolatory, hermit life. Ultimately, I think we'll have to experiment with a variety of solutions, but keep in mind our child's needs. Your thoughts? Encouragement? I live in an area of the country, San Diego, where it is difficult to live on a single parent income. My wife and I are balancing the challenges of financial obligations and future comfort with our desire to care for our children in the way they deserve. I'm, personally, finding it very challenging because there is discrepancy in the way I'm living and the values that I hold dear. Thank you again. I look forward to continued discussion.

tasmlab, Thank you, very very much for your response. I really enjoy hearing the advice from someone that has shared in the same experiences. I find the information that you have made explicit (taking my son to a school bus stop and act like he's getting on the bus with the stranger) the things that implicitly concern me great things to consider. I'm glad you mentioned John Taylor Gatto's work. I was first exposed to his work through the Peace Revolution Podcast leading up to and including their weekend interview and commentary. If you're not familiar with this "Ultimate History Lesson" please YouTube it, it's fascinating and very educational to listen to. I played the first hour of this interview with my wife and it didn't go over well. I think there is a lot of work associated with bringing my wife on board as to the issues with the public school system; I actually think the convincing is impossible. However, you did inspire me in your words that there is no risk in trying and to speak assertively about my choice and share the journey with her. I do want to ask if you still work while unschooling, if you actually stay at home with your kids. I don't have much information to start with, so I can't really ask to good, meaty questions. I'm certainly interested in further discussions on the topic, even if the idea doesn't come to fruition with other families, I am interested in finding a balance between working for money to pay the bills and spending the best time with my son.