[expressing empathy]

This is a very interesting question, Matt. Can you tell us a little more about the feelings that are beneath your concern? Is it a fear that the other person will perceive your empathy as disingenuous? That you'll say the wrong things and mess things up?

 

That's a very good question. Saying the wrong thing and 'messing things up' (ie further supporting their false belief that what happened to them was acceptable or normal etc) is a definitely a concern . I want to truly help those that share these things with me, and I don't want to foster 'false self' emotions; I've definitely said the 'wrong' thing in the past before and I've felt guilt for it. The example that comes to mind is when a friend told me she thought that she had been molested as a child, and a few days later I mentioned a statistic on the frequency of molestation/sexual abuse in women (I can't remember what the statistic is but it's high), in hopes of making them feel better but later realized that It was probably the worst thing I could say in that it further helps them to normalize the behavior and believe it is okay for that to happen. Back a few years when I was younger I would use the 'everything is going to be okay' line, but I see now (past few years) that while they trusted me and thus is soothed them this is only more heroin, so to speak.

 

'fear that they will perceive your empathy as disengious'. Maybe a little but I don't think that's too much of a factor. I would think they wouldn't share it with me if they didn't know that I truly did care, however the fact that I am afraid to say the wrong thing and thus sometimes just don't say anything is something that I fear causes them to think I don't care.

 

Just for a little more backstory: My biggest thing Is that I want to help people, but in the past I've put so much effort in with no sign of any positive change, that it caused me to get worn down, feel angry, and kind of give up. This is what resulted in the 'not really saying anything' kind of responses, but more commonly just not even engaging in conversations at all. I have one friend, the one whom talking to caused me to write this post, who I still talk deeply with frequently, but my few other friends and acquantences who have kind of 'clung' to me because they think (or so it seems) that I can save them or fix them has caused me to detach from the relationships because it's so draining. I kind of have this mental image of a soldier squad in a desert and all my squad mates are wounded and I can either sit there with them and assage their fears, or I can move forward and come back with help (if I find it). Basically I don't want to, or more so, can't while still having enough enery to work on myself and get all my school, work, etc stuff down to put in a lot of effort to helping my friends when there is no sign that it will actually be helpful to them. Saving all the souls of those around me in not a major concern or goal of mine, but it is something that stays in the back of my mind.

 

But this post is, mostly anyway, about my one friend whom I do have a close relationship with (She has been in my life for almost 7 years now; we've both seen eachother at our worst and have had a very bumpy relationship),  whom I've been able to help to grow to a decent degree (and whom has helped me grow tremendously; I probably wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for her) but have also hurt in the past and I just want to be sure that I am actually helping and not hurting.

 

 

 

I know what you mean, totally. It's really difficult for me to formulate a response, but I have a couple thoughts that could be helpful.

 

The most helpful thing (as you suggested) is to de-normalize it and to help them see it by responding to it for the immorality that it was.

 

Something you could say is "you know, I feel very uncomfortable saying this but I think it's important that I do. What happened to you is terrible and I'm so sorry" or something like that. I don't think it even necessarily needs to include "I'm so sorry that happened to you" as long as you are showing support to that part of themselves that knows it was abusive, the part they would hopefully connect with.

 

I don't know that there is any one way to go about it.

 

Yeah I think I've got this down decently well. I know that there isn't only one way to go about it but I do feel like only de-normalizing it is kind of 'text-book' so to speak. In stuff like the Call In Shows it seems to, by itself, be a pretty sufficient answer, but It just feels like in relationships that are much more in-depth (ie someone you've known for years) that there is more to be said.

 

 

It may help to think of what not to do, or to think of what a therapist would say. I think listening closely and asking questions is pretty essential. 

 

What I tend to do is to express how I'd feel in that situation and might extrapolate a little. For instance: my friend was telling me about how after his parents got a divorce that they tended to talk back about the other with him. In response I said something like "that must be really tough, there is this sort of instinctual love children have for their parents, and this not only puts you in an odd situation that you have no control over, but it also really screws with your ability to have a strong relationship relationship with either of them".

 

What I wouldn't worry about is how it feels at the moment. This is an area that I've had a tremendous amount of issues with, especially in regard to giving myself empathy, so I can't expect the process to feel natural or comfortable at all since so much of my life was spent not flexing this muscle. It is like if you were injured in an accident and were in a bed for four years. When you finally start to make your way out of bed, walking is not only going to be extremely difficult, but it is going to feel very: stiff, strange, and deliberate. Whenever you begin to use a new muscle, you have to put a lot of conscious deliberation into every small move you take, and I'd argue that showing empathy is just the same.

 

In my own experience in sharing my experience with a close friend about my childhood experiences, he told me that what my grandmother did to me makes him angry. I felt really good when he told me this, not sure what the feeling would be called exactly, but it was really quite positive and stuck with me.

 

Definitely agree, but the issue is that I'm not sure what a therapist would say. I'm usually pretty good with the questions in general but when it comes to really heavy statements I get concerned about whether I'm dealing with them correctly and I am not sure that the socratic questioning on the usual conversation is so good for that stuff. What do you think?

 

Your response to the divorce example provided some ideas in my head. Definitely asking them how they feel, and not only denormalizing but trying to tell them how I'd feel in the situation is key. Even then though I feel like it would come out kind of emotion-less, but, as you said, It will take practice due to being something that I have never really used.

 

Also I think a key thing I need to do is get more in touch with my own childhood which would (I would think) make me more able to relate.

 

Thanks for your insightful responses guys

[expressing empathy]

This is something I have always struggled with, and I've got some better idea through the podcasts I've listened to thus far, but I still just really don't know what to say.

 

Whenever someone tells me something really personal and frighetning/evil/etc about their childhood, how do i respond? I very often feel a lot of empathy—picturing the scene in my head and even getting choked up or whatever it may be—but I just don't know what a proper way of responding is to both acknowledge them and support them in their exploration/growth.

 

I've been trying to work on how Stef responds on the call in shows by helping to denormalize—'im so sorry you experienced that' 'that is truly terrible'—but it often feels forced and inauthentic. Also with my friend who mostly talk about this stuff with, she acknowledges that she had a terrible childhood; does that change how I should respond? Is it alsways good to 'denormalize' regardless of whether they have already denormalized?

 

Any suggestions on what to say or how to figure out what to say in a situation?

[China's Pollution problem]

I spent a lot of time on reddit (mostly a bunch of atheist-democrats) and have seen a couple posts regarding China's pollution problem. Of course there is almost unanimous agreement that 'this is why we need regulatory agenices'. Just wanted to an opinion from anyone who might have a little more knowledge on the topic of why this would be occuring and why government intervention is not the answer.

 

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/14/169305324/beijings-air-quality-reaches-hazardous-levels

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/air-pollution-linked-to-1-2-million-deaths-in-china.html?hp

 

http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/06/choking-to-death-the-health-consequences-of-air-pollution-in-china/

 

 

[Understanding Stefan Molyneux]

I personally find Stef fascinating as well, but its because he has traits which i want to adopt (confidence and assertivness). Im also a little interested in how he managed to gain the motivation to pursue rationality (something ive been trying to figure out in myself as well). Other than that though, i am only interested in his arguments and their validity.

 

Would you mind elaborating on why 'understanding stef' is important to you?