Jelle de Jong

I use a water distiller and get most of my water needs from fruit (+3l a day), but your osmoses system is great as well, especially for a family. Will use a generator and gasoline to power it in an emergency, but will not last me 30 days.

Only 17 out of 18? Do you have those standards for all your decisions? Smoking only affects 1/3 of people, that is why I asked for what you would deem as acceptable information, are your standards realistic? Do you use the same standards for making decisions about spanking, yelling. I need to know where the goalpost is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical_fallacy What are the standards for to prove that animal flesh alone is the single cause of disease we can only make strong coralation and elimination studies.... so what is the standard?, because animal protein has been proven harmful, but then the goalpost are moved to grass fed free range animal flesh.. [example in the comment: http://nutritionstudies.org/animal-protein-carcinogen/] also the book the China Study that isn't really about a study in China, but about laboratory work on animal protein, that uses the china study to verify findings in real life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study#Blood_cholesterol_levels_correlated_to_diet.2C_particularly_animal_protein loads of other studies show harmful effects of animal protein http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=animal+protein there is no fibber in animal flesh and there is no human need for trans fats (they seem to cause only harm) that are only found in animal products (and industrial creations) http://nutritionfacts.org/2014/02/27/trans-fat-in-animal-fat/. The Blue Zones book is a summary of studies about people that lived the longest: http://www.amazon.de/The-Blue-Zones-Lessons-Longest/dp/1426207557/ conclusion was a high carb low fat whole food plant based diet as well. (a nice summary can be found here: http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/blog/?p=1247) Sorry I misread mortality for morality, so here is some extra information: The Brain Functional Networks Associated to Human and Animal Suffering Differ among Omnivores, Vegetarians and Vegans: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0010847#abstract0 http://scholar.google.nl/scholar?q=vegan+empathy+research Could be more intensive research but it shows there is an difference. The URL you provided to the article on the nytimes talks about a low fat diet, but the actual study shows there definition of low fat >30% isn't low fat at all, low fat is 5≤15%, see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neal-barnard-md/diet-and-nutrition_b_5761450.html about an detailed explanation about the study http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/health/low-carb-vs-low-fat-diet.html?_r=0 Why do we (well I want to) want an society with voluntary interactions and negotiations between fellow humans, but enslave non-humans (98% animals are used for agriculture, only 2% life in the wild) and use them for your own pleasure and even worse kill them only for having a nice palate/taste experience, while destroying environment and allocate resources that could be used for feeding other people. I just don't get why you would do so much harm to other humans and non-humans, when it is not necessary at all. (It feels like a difference species of humans). I spent a lot of time replying on this, I don't want to reply any more unless the question and goalpost is very specific and realistic. I can use my time a lot more useful, but would like you to stop hurting me and my fellow non-humans (speciesism) so I invest my time in this, if I feel it will be appreciated and evaluated fairly. (just like I want people to stop childism and stop people that want me thrown into prison because I follow voluntarism).

I have read the six pages of posts here and I seen behaviour of people changing there level of acceptance for an argument to be valid and also keep putting new arguments up when an old one was disproved. I would say:Give me a full list of information points that we would have to prove and when this information would fit your acceptance and non-acceptance standards in order for you to accept a low fat high carbohydrate whole food plant based diet as preferable over any other diet that involves animal products?I am keeping to a diet that has been double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled proven to reduce or even reverse the top killers of western society like heart decease, diabetes, obesity, migraines and a lot of other physical discomforts. At the same time a low fat high carbohydrate whole food plant based diet is environmentally sustainable for 8 billion people and our own living environment. It hurts me in my whole body if I watch an other mammal (even if it was grass feed and raised as being part of a "loving" family with lots of care and attention) be killed for my own or someone’s else pleasure, I have to turn my emotions off, full force field on, trying to explain this empathy to someone that does not want to study and try alternatives to killing for your own pleasure is for me like talking to an diffrent human species. I understand I kill/harm other beings for my own pleasure, but I try to minimise this killing and harm and would use that as an universal principle.

Thanks for sharing the links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8yvva76eDcWondering what the difference is between the two? Will watch the newest first..[Edit]: both videos are really good and have different content

Marius did you (or anyone else) eventually find a good psychotherapist in The Netherlands? I made a template email with some questions (partly based on Stefan’s video on how to find a good therapist) and personal requirements and wishes, been going through nvvp.nl and sending out emails, but so far no luck yet.

I was triggered by the latest video about Ayn Rand on "Defending Ayn Rand - Peter Schiff Radio Show May 14th, 2014" I looked up some other material and was wondering if it is good read to read one of the books, but which one will be recommended? The Fountainhead ?Atlas Shrugged ? Any recommendations?

Hi Marius, you haven't come up with a argument yet (just some FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) but you say you are worried about the essentials? Take a look at the WHO research about what the essentials are, to help you out a bit these are research papers for protein and fatty acids: http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdfhttp://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdfThese are four good books:http://www.amazon.de/Whole-Rethinking-Nutrition-Colin-Campbell/dp/1937856240http://www.amazon.de/The-Starch-Solution-Regain-Health/dp/1609613937/http://www.amazon.de/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107http://www.amazon.de/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/I looked up animal by-products, since you stated you think they may provide essential nutrients and found this on wikipedia: "Animal by-products are carcasses and parts of carcasses from slaughterhouses, animal shelters, zoos and veterinarians, and products of animal origin not intended for human consumption, including catering waste (all waste food from restaurants, catering facilities, central kitchens, slaughterhouses and household kitchens)"

I also want to add that the reductionist science approach to nutrition can end up harming us very very badly. I do like reductionist research and the information, but is like ten blind people describing an art painting. I can recommend a good book about nutrition looking at the whole picture: http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Rethinking-Nutrition-Colin-Campbell/dp/1937856240

I like the idea of this but be aware that there has been no scientific study or proof that his formula is healthy. He tested it on his own for three months without getting sick, but eating only potatoes for three months has even proven to give health benefits for most people. The standard diet of people is really really bad. We tried creating baby formula and have not yet succeeded in creating an healthy replacement, only a you will survive but not thrive formula. There are loads of chemicals and nutrients we are only starting to discover in fresh ripe organic fruits and vegetables. If you really want to life on the cheap, go on a diet of only rice/potatoes/jams and vegetables, with some whole food multi-suppliment.

Hi Marius, I can't put your name to a face any more, maybe if you add a profile picture I would recognize you. There is a new FDR Europe Facebook group in case you have an account: https://www.facebook.com/groups/FDR.Europe/ that would be easier for people to network if that was your mean interest.I don't exactly know what you mean with a fruitarian, its a word that seem to have different meanings for people. But I do eat mostly fruits and leafy greens and sometimes a bit of soaked nuts and seeds. I eat steamed starches, pseudo grains or other vegetables when there are no fruits available (which is rare these days). I also believe fruits don't contain all the needed nutritions for Humans nutrition, for example there are nutrients we need and get from UVB radiation and biochemical processes on our skin or from bacteria when having good functioning gut flora. The quality (mineral content) of the soil where the produce is coming from and the ripeness when harvested also plays a important role in the nutritional value. I studied the diet intensively from a scientific point of view and together with other lifestyle changes I made Its definitely been one of the best things I done in my life, its giving me the health and energy to work on the things I love to do and also made me meet awesome people around the world.But if you think I missed something important in my research, please come with an argument instead of thinking something

The meet-up was absolutely brilliant and I hope we can at least make a yearly event out of it, thank you for coming.