corpus mentium

But hitting isn't any way to defend children from running into the street. It is assaulting them for the parent's lack of preparation.

If I recall correctly didn't Stef say in either this video or the How They Are Winning video that he was happy when people who couldn't contribute financially would contribute in other ways?

Do you mean this one?

Seems the dogs have the morality of the situation all worked out regarding whether or not the mother is doing right or wrong, no matter if she is actually going to hit the child or not. This situation between mother and child (and dogs) is just a variation on the pointy fingered hold-up in a convenience store where the faux gunman is held liable for any reactions by others that result in damages. It's unfortunate that the seeming majority of humanity can't or doesn't exhibit the same understanding as these dogs.

Instead the children will be stressed as they await their physical punishment upon arriving at home. It's a good thing the caregivers won't be stressed, I guess. My dad had a similar policy at his business for his kids. Any whippings accrued during the business day were to be doled out strictly after hours, off the premises (which happened to be in the center of town), and after the 30 minute drive home. I don't remember him ever finally following through once reaching home, but the stress of the situation was a real motherfucker.

Has anyone else seen this? There are 4 parts so far. I found it quite difficult to watch - hearing some of the parents and teachers talking about not knowing what to do when there is already so much information out there of which they can and could have availed themselves. Hearing some of the kids stories about their parents... http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o6Aj8MXuh9GK5ZooRpLMGBp

They were spanked and they turned out fine... http://youtu.be/5CNHwhHWPoQ#aid=P9H0kZBQbr4

I was hoping that the community could start building up a thread of success stories shared by parents using peaceful parenting methods during negotiating and resolving conflicts with/among their children. I know I have seen a few scattered here and there on the forum, but I think it would be beneficial to consolidate these stories into a nice, long thread that can be shared around the internet wherever pro-spanking and coercive parenting statements are encountered. I think this could be especially helpful to those like me who don't yet have children but want to spread the peaceful parenting message and want to show real world examples of how it can work, not to mention gain some knowledge and wisdom for future parenting reference. I invite parents to share stories of all kinds, both from those who have employed peaceful parenting strategies from the beginning as well as from those who shifted to peaceful parenting mid-stream. I would also like to ask peaceful parents who grew up in a not-so-peaceful environment to share (if they are comfortable doing so, of course) comparisons of situations from their childhoods to similar situations they encounter while raising their children now – typical things like bedtimes, chores, toothbrushing, sharing communal resources like the TV, computer, etc. If you grew up in a household where your parents employed peaceful strategies, don't hesitate to share your stories either, whether you have children now or not. I think it would be great to hear perspectives from your point of view. I think it would be of particular help and interest if stories could be shared by parents who have changed from coercive parenting to peaceful parenting. What kinds of changes did you see in your children and your relations with them after you made the shift? Was there a transitional period that your children needed before things really improved? If so, how long was it? How did you go about making the shift to peaceful parenting? Finally, please don't feel that you need to limit your responses only to my questions, suggestions and requests as listed above. They are only meant as examples to get the ball rolling. Since I am asking questions from a position of practical ignorance, I am sure there probably are many things that I am missing and important questions that I may not be asking. If anyone has something that they think I should add or refine in this post, by all means, send me a PM and I will make an appropriate update.

I am really shaking after reading this. I am in basically the same position. I haven't been seeking contact with my family for a number of months. Around Christmas time I sent them an email that I wasn't sure I wanted to participate in the holidays and that I needed a break. I had asked to be left alone until I got things sorted out in my head. Then, this past week I got a couple emails - one shortly after another - from my sister demanding that I re-establish contact. Lots of guilting, shaming, and talking about love while simultaneously telling me I'm cold and selfish and how I treat my family badly when in fact I had only asked to be left alone to sort things out for myself. I haven't been doing anything towards them. Just receiving and reading the email has totally changed the emotional tone of my week. The fact of the matter is that this is the person I feel I need to talk to the most urgently, but not because of her email to me. She has children and one of the last times I spoke to her (over video since we live a long distance apart), she hit her 2 year old. I wasn't at the point yet that I felt I could say anything. In fact I froze up when it happened. I am still unsure as to how I should approach her. I want to do it right so as to be of maximum help to her children and hopefully not push her away, but just thinking about it makes me shake. I am paralyzed about what to do or say because I see the situation as so delicate. With my other family members I don't feel the pressure to sort myself out in any accelerated way. I just hope that they will understand my need to be left alone for now. I wish I could offer something more helpful to you, Benjammin. It looks like we are in the same boat.

Without knowing more about their situation, I have to say that the first thought that came to my mind after reading your post was, "Is she pressuring him to get married? Is it his relationship with his girlfriend that is unstable and does he think marrying her will resolve that? If so, how will marrying her bring stability into his life?" If she is unstable, then marrying her would be setting himself up with a high probability of a whole hell of a lot of instability later on, wouldn't it? Even if she is a wonderful woman who isn't pressuring him into marriage and they have a wonderful relationship together, what is it about his life that is unstable? Why is he getting into this instability? Is it really a good idea to make a supposed life-long commitment without first resolving that instability? Perhaps he wants her to bring him some stability, which would be quite a serious expectation to place on another individual. If you hop on YouTube and do a search on MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), you may find some interesting thoughts, though I have noticed that some of them venture into a realm similar to irrational feminist ideas, but from the male point of view. I have found Sandman's videos to be interesting, though I would say he is guilty of these inconsistencies from time to time as well. Again, without more info it would be difficult to comment further.

From the comments:

I've just made it through the first part of the first video so far. In the magic marker experiment it was interesting to hear him comment similarly to Alfie Kohn on the counterproductivity of providing rewards as a means of motivating children to do what someone wants. I also noticed how by triggering a child's counterwill, non-peaceful parents are inadvertently setting events into motion that would ultimately lead to them spanking the child for doing the opposite of what the parents said. I think this information will be extremely important to know regarding interactions in voluntary relationships as well as during intervention encounters with parents being violent with their children. It's really wonderful to see that someone has put a lot of thought and effort into this counterwill response. I wonder how many others can relate to the situations he describes. I know in my case that I recognized this response quite early on in my life in my interactions with my parents and elder relatives. One example from my early twenties was when one of my sisters did something nice for me and just as the words "thank you" were about to pass my lips my dad aggressively ordered, "THANK YOUR SISTER!" That thank you quickly dried up in that moment and turned into a irritated spoken "No" and a thought of "Go fuck yourself" to my dad. What an asshole for completely robbing my thanks of their sincerity. After my saying no he became quite ferocious and started commanding my sister as to how she should never do anything for me again. After we were out of his presence I thanked my sister and explained why I couldn't do it in the moment with him around. She said she understood.

I actually manually went through several of the recent call in shows that I have been listening to. I just remember her being the first caller sometime around Christmas 2013. I think there is an ongoing project with several members of the community tagging a lot of Stef's vids to make them more searchable.

Are you looking for the first caller of this one?

I can see what you are saying, but I don't entirely agree with it. The implication seems to be that once the parent says something like this, there is no longer any point in continuing the conversation. Did I understand that correctly? I agree that the chances are small that these parents will make a positive change, but, unless the parents are literally plugging their ears, the chances of them listening to the arguments are not zero and we are already in the conversation anyway. It may be just the exposure that will lead to a positive change further down the road. Later change is not ideal (rather than sooner), but isn't it better than no change at all? Isn't the chance worth taking since we are right there anyway? In some cases (i.e. with friends, relatives, acquaintances), these people already have one peaceful parenting advocate in their lives, maybe they will also know others who will reinforce what we have said. I know I am only one person, but anti-spanking arguments were presented to me over a decade ago and I was vehemently opposed to them and remained so for years afterwards. I had all the uninformed stock responses of, “But they will be brats. But they won't learn reason and respect. But they will walk all over you. But my dad whipped the shit out of me and I turned out fine! I love him!” etc. But the seed was planted that day and I would say that it had a significant effect on me when I later heard additional arguments. I knew that there were people out there that strongly believed in anti-spanking and, because I had previously been presented the arguments against spanking, that maybe these people were on to something after all. I was more open to considering the position, which caused me to finally dig deeper, which was what finally put me on to peaceful parenting, which caused me to get out there and confront pro-spanking misconceptions with the hopes of continuing and expanding the peaceful cycle.

"You've never overcome being morbidly obese so how can you be an effective nutritionist?" "You've never had poison ivy so you can't know how to treat it." "You don't have a uterus so how can you possibly know how to deliver a child?" "How can you know how to stop leaky roofs if you've never lived on the top floor anywhere?" "You've never had a car of your own so you can't say that crashing a car does any damage to the car." At that point I might say, "That's true. I don't have your kids, but if I did have them, I wouldn't hit them because I have found A, B, and C to be far more effective and rewarding. Have you ever tried A, B, and C?" And then take it from there. I agree with BrianBrian here. Anyone who intervenes pretty much starts out with a strike or two against him for the simple fact of speaking up. I think the next step has to be carefully thought out and tactful otherwise the parents will become even more entrenched in their bias. From my thus far theoretical standpoint, I think it's extremely important to keep a cool head and a non-threatening, non-condescending tone of voice, but I will defer to the methods of those who have more experience and general success in changing people's minds to the non-aggressive.

1:18 - This struck me and my wife as well. I argued for the benefit of the doubt since it was only one line, but I still have a funny feeling about it.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Video-Shows-Principal-Allegedly-Dragging-Kindergarten-Students-246599271.html The YouTube comments are saddeningly typical. http://youtu.be/BSmf3npw03o From November 2013: http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/School-Board-Suspends-Principal-Accused-of-Dragging-Students-230034191.html

I agree with and would like to add to what you have written. Time put in behind the scenes of a new business will likely often be more than we plan on, especially in the first few years. Very early on I felt that I was simply BSing my customers when I tried to sell them something. I hated it. The feeling changed when I started really understanding and believing in what I was selling. I think this comes with the experience of knowing your strong points and being able to recognize and fulfill a customer's needs even if they don't fully know them. I often offer a free preliminary meeting to learn a bit about potential customers and what their needs might be. It is always very important for small businesses to keep their customers happy, even if it costs the business a little bit to do so. Saving a little bit of money at the expense of pissing off a good customer can cost you big time in the long run - especially if you are relying on word of mouth advertising. More than make it up to them. One freebie I provide from time to time is an extended lesson. I might add ~15-30 minutes or so when we both have some extra time available. On people not backing you: You really do have to back yourself in the face of any naysayers. Maybe consider and look into what they have to say, but in the end it's your great idea. You will have to form your own decisions. There can be a million internal reasons why a business similar to yours might have failed in the past. If you have the winning formula nailed down to offer people what they've been missing, then there is no reason why it shouldn't succeed.

If anyone is interested, here is another peek into gossmakeupartist's history and thoughts - this time on verbal assaults. There must be some kind of bug. When I log in I can see my posts. When I log off I can only see some of my posts... in the same short conversation thread. Let me just take a moment to copy and... F$@&$*@(…&<:"!!! I am a g+ / YouTube newb so I guess it could partly still be me. Me too, but getting a post off my chest that poses thought provoking questions to potentially abusive parents helps me feel a lot better. I know it will simply roll off most of their backs, but I keep in mind that there will be a few here and there that will take it in and, hopefully, get them to think about more peaceful parenting. I was fully and firmly entrenched in their camp until a couple years ago. I was trying to convince my wife that belting children was OK and necessary. (I have a childhood history post incubating on all this.) She was against hitting of any kind but she didn't have the arguments to present to get me really thinking about it. I heard Stef's arguments and analogies and I did a 180 and bolted to the opposite end of the spectrum in a very short amount of time. Now I am extremely passionate about spreading these arguments and getting people to really think about them and start changing their ways. I try to do it the best I can by keeping things neutral and factual because god knows that there is more than enough steaming hot methane blowing around on these sites to spark a gloriously counterproductive flame war.

I just want to say thank you so much for posting this link. I have been following the comments with a great deal of interest and also sadness. A lot of the comments really are horrifying, but if some of us peaceful parenting types can keep up with the conversation, I hope that we can win over at least some of the subscribers to start using peaceful parenting strategies. I think YouTube channels similar to this one that focus on demographics most likely to spend the most time with young children could be some of the most important to engage in with regards to spreading peaceful parenting information. If you know of any similar channels, I would love to take a look at them. I noticed this too. I have mostly been focusing on responding to those who are against hitting children apparently based on their opinions. I share some of the moral arguments and scientific findings as a sort of backup or supplement with the hopes that it gets them thinking even more about it.

It's pretty revolting. Hopefully the silver lining in this obvious ratings stunt is that Schiff will get and hopefully enlighten some new viewers. Sam Seder and Cenk Uygur have demonstrated their acumen regarding this event. It's a good thing that they dug deeper than what was aired on The Daily Show, since they are also in the industry and would likely not fall for or employ such editing shenanigans. Gotta love the(ir) "truth". I thought these guys had problems with tactics of the MSM. Maybe they meant that those tactics were bad only when it didn't suit their agendas.

Paraphrased, but: "I absolutely would smack my child LOL!" Horrifying. I tried to post my own comments but they don't seem to show up after I've gone to look for them. : / Anyone else have similar issues with youtube? It's not the first time it's happened when I've posted something. Makes me wanna cry conspiracy, but I think there would be a simpler explanation.

I might phrase this a little differently. Do what you can not to fail, but if you do fail, learn as much as possible about it. Keep track of whatever you can, but don't let it consume all your time. A little spreadsheet training has immensely helped me out with this. I also maintain notebooks for every student I have. They can be very helpful to look back at progress made and encouraging to show your students how they've improved. Perhaps a decent sound recorder and microphone would be in order for you and your students in a similar way. I agree about not spending all your time planning. I consider planning to be part of what I do when I'm on my way to or from work, and I don't mean planning for that day or the next, but planning for the long term. What can I do to improve what I'm doing overall? Implement any new ideas gradually in case they don't pan out the way you like. If they take off then great! You have a new tool in your toolbox. If they don't, you can revert back to what worked before and have minimal fallout. I am also not so sure about just firing difficult clients. I would be worried about negative reputation from something like this. I have had "difficult" clients, but in my experience it only takes a little time to find some common ground to make things go more smoothly.

What?! Where's their faith? I wonder how things might turn out in the future when these kids grow up and some (hopefully all) of them use this little thing called the internet to watch this debate that they found on FDR... At least if they end up like the ones who were raised religious and managed to shake it off.