spiritualguru

That's what logic says.

I like how you focus on the drug part when I mentioned several other things not just the drugs. Anyway, if many people have an experience of going to jupiter in the astral plane and that jupiter is the same place, why wouldn't it be considered real? There have been accounts of people both going into out of body states and then going to the exact same place and even communicating with each other. How do you explain that? And sorry to disappoint you but many people have had a god experience in their mystical states. Just because you had a few experiences and some explanations doesn't mean you get to dismiss everyone else's explanations as delusional and that's my point here. No matter what experience you have, to dismiss other peoples explanations of their own experience because you're "logical" is semi-delusional. Explanations of experience is basically all you get from those experiences unless you experience it yourself. "People saying that they experienced astral travel and therefore they actually went to a space between worlds. No, they just experienced things as if they had gone to a place between worlds. What I have a problem with is people jumping to irrational conclusions, often because it makes them feel special." Important point to make here. You're just experiencing things as if you're a human in a human body in a world made of matter.

How can you dismiss other peoples experience? Lol, everything is based on experience. Even science itself is based on peoples EXPERIENCE of looking through a microscope or doing tests and then documenting that experience. How can you believe it unless you go experience it for yourself? Go have an NDE go have an out of body experience, go take a psychedelic, go have a transcendental experience. Then come back here and dismiss God. You're just taking everything that doesn't fit into your model of reality and then dismissing it. If there is many people having experiences of these things you should know it's just not all delusion and if you think it's all delusions then I feel sorry for the extremely small boxed in world you live in.

If consciousness is an emergent property, how do people have near death experiences? How do people astral travel? Have out of the body experiences where they can see things in other places away from their body? A woman had all the blood drained from her brain in a surgery and had a near death experience where she left her body, how is that possible? Isn't it a bit unwise to just label all these experiences as "delusion" or "hallucinations" because it doesn't fit into your model of reality?

Idk how that follows, we can know about god through the mind, we can't directly know god with just the mind though. Consciousness is demonstrated all through nature as the reason behind why things do what they do. Why does a seed grow into a tree? Why do we get old and die? The process is god.

Consciousness is God

You're asking a lot of good questions here, I like that. And you're right in many of them, how can god know himself to exist? Well here's the answer. God spreads manifests into human form, which have limited minds and concepts. Then the humans which are part of God use their minds to create concepts of God. He's able to identify himself through the human manifestations who are able to do all the things you listed. Separation doesn't exist, but the mind can conceive of separation, believe in it, and then trick itself. How can Stef say "We all know consciousness is an effect of matter", is that an argument? That's just a giant generalization and it's false. We don't all know that. Many people think differently. Because it's logical and makes sense. Cause and effect. Present actions define the future. If you can see the future, you can also see if you will change the future. And if you can see you will change it, you could also see the future where you see the future and you change it BUT then you decide not to change it. And you can see the future where you will change it, decide not to change it because you saw the future, and decide to change it anyway. And so on into infinity. Do you understand? It wasn't an insult, even einstein realized his own mind was limited. And the existence of God does not hinge upon the validity of objections, but if you are going to be atheist, you might as well have better arguments than the ones Stefan presented.

Because it's one a that has consciousness, that is also everything that exists.

Updated

Pantheism is the belief that the universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity,[1] or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism 1. An eternal being could never have evolved, since it does not die and reproduce, and therefore biological evolution could never have lay-ered levels of increasing complexity over its initial simplicity. The pantheistic god invalidates this argument because if god is everything, then he is also the process called evolution. It's just an unfolding of himself. 2. Secondly, we also know that consciousness is an effect of matter This is not even true, many scientists and philosophers dispute this. 3. Thirdly, omniscience cannot coexist with omnipotence, since if a god knows what will happen tomorrow, said god will be unable to change it with-out invalidating its knowledge. From the present moment the god would also be able to see himself changing the future. From the present moment god sees all possible futures and all possible routes and is able to go down any route he chooses even simultaneously. 4. The fourth objection to the existence of deities is that an object can only rationally be defined as existing when it can be detected in some manner, either di-rectly, in the form of matter and/or energy, orindirectly, based upon its effects on the objects around it, such as a black hole. Very weak argument because it comes from the belief that only matter and energy exist. Einstein was a pantheist, and for good reason. He was able to see beyond his own intellect. God does exist.