poopoooooo

I think he was arrested for refusing to leave when asked to do so as this is then a trespass, i.e. he's there without permission because it's been revoked. On the other side I wonder what their threshold is, i.e. would they have accepted 1 dollar bills if they weren't folded, would they accept coins? Maybe not as it seems the argument put forth is the amount of time to process the payment. I suppose you could go to court and say you had made payment with legal tender - who knows where that would go.

so in other words, logic cannot be incorrect - only the information that is put into the logical equation.

Most advantageous to me? Wow - do you mean I actually get to decide this? Once I decide that mysticism is more advantageous to me you're probably going to disagree though right? You're going to give me criteria and examples to show that actually, the things you think are more advantageous are actually what I should decide. First you STARTED with the CONCLUSION that NOTHING in mysticism was testable, so the snark was perfectly warranted. Here's a testable claim: seasoned mystics go to their grave pissing their pants less than most other human beings. You are probably about to say, 'so what?' so, I'll tell you so what... most of the planets population live under a spell of fear and this is reflected in our actions. Yes it's fairly important, it represents the boredom I face of having the same conversation over and over with 'rational' thinkers who toe the party (scientific) line. I'm not one for holding erroneous beliefs based on emotional disturbances nor am I one to shy away from disecting the building blocks of my own thought process. Inside of the box you're probably all wonderful people but for those of us with the courage to step outside you drift into insignificance. TO SUMMARISE: Many scientists are beginning to see a deeper truth to this universe - men with minds much greater than myself or any of you. Tom Campbell is an interesting case right now and many people are coming over to his way of thinking that this is a virtual reality - something I, and many others, have known for a while now. He's a physicist (has consulted for NASA) with proven scientific evidence to back this up. Go look this guy up and put some effort into disproving your own theories rather than perpetually looking for evidence to back them up. I've had this conversation with scientists and atheists and rational thinkers too many times to continue it, so I won't be responding unless someone has something to say which I haven't heard a hundred times already. Good luck to you all and go ahead and assign me to the archives of crazy people.

Proven more advantageous to what?

I'm not sure this is my problem? Ah, you didn't say you were a seasoned mystic, that you had heard every assertion that a mystic would make and had ruled them all un-testable. Your argument is victorious and I will immediately cast off mysticism.

^ this is the typical response I'm talking about. Many scientists say the same thing about philosophy, i.e. unless it can be physically measured it's irrelevant. You, I'm guessing would say they are wrong. You, I'm guessing would also say mystics are wrong... basically everyone but you (and people who think like you) is wrong and you have critical reasoning to back this up. The problem with people is that they think they know far more than they do, they get caught in a specific identity, e.g. scientist, atheist, philosopher, and because they identify so strongly with it they will find the rational to deny anything outside of this. Personally, I haven't got a fucking clue what's going on here...

Since posting this, over 4 months ago, I've come to a similar conclusion - too many atheists and scientists draw conclusions bigger than they are entitled to. Many philosophers believe that scientists over step the mark but that they themselves are not capable of overstepping the mark. If a mystic dares to step beyond the level of knowledge that they deem it possible to obtain, then they are annoyed because they lack the courage to go where only a few dare. Too many people write off fields that they are not proficient in, whereas each one is equally valuable in it's own place.

Just wanted to say thank you again Brent. Your words helped me to shake out what I needed. I do want to make some serious videos and for those I will 'dig deep'. I also want to do a casual daily blog of my thoughts and for this I'll relax a bit more and probably be a bit more entertaining. I realise everyone won't want to listen to my ramblings at first but I can live with that. thank you mate

thanks for that, I can see all what you've said and I take it on board. The entertainment side is something I'll have to think about. I'm not sure if I want to come across as entertaining so I'll think about this. I also appreciate I haven't established myself to sit there and drone on without it. I've got a series of videos which I'm working hard on right now which may take me a while but in the mean time I really want to just get content out there for the experience. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and critique

thanks for your response It's getting quite a long thread to read I know, but yes I am trying to make a case for mysticism. What you describe as feelings of euphoria etc I do not equate to mysticism. Mysticism is the acquisition of knowledge from an altered state that you would be unable to gain without that altered state. I even made a video of it this morning if you wanted to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBTKmeLB1ME&list=TLYRAe54__8-Nc3V9RT85hcoYUx4DweDcF I will take on board your advice and be more specific with my language. I realise now that when trying to make an assertion you must be very very specific. I am indeed asserting that there can be conciousness beyond brains, or at least brains in the traditional sense. I think what I need to do here so that we're not going round in circles, is for me to create a hypothesis which science can agree is a valid hypothesis, and then try to prove it? Would that be the correct way to proceed?

Thank you for the compliment Robert, I've just started the videos so it's nice to hear. Yes, that's kind of my point. It's not currently verifiable in the external world but neither is dark matter. However scientists are putting a lot of work into studying dark matter. Whereas very few scientists will study mysticism. You may say that dark matter has a visible effect on the universe and so warrants investigation. However I would also propose that mysticism has a visible effect on the universe, as it reveals information previously unknown to the individual and sometimes humanity. I think mysticism is not studied within the scientific community, as doing so is socially stigmatized. For example, how much does it cost to investigate dark matter? Could I investigate it without a large scientific backing?

Thank you Robert, I'm not sure if your reference to fantasy is due to a confusion of religion with fantasy. I had no problem letting go of the 'fantasy' of religion but I think mysticism is something else, which should ultimately be rooted in science. I've just made a video which I think will explain my position more clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBTKmeLB1ME I have watched those videos and will do so again in case I've missed the point Pepin that is a good point Again I'd invite you to the video I've just created and let me know if/where I'm going wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBTKmeLB1ME

yeah send it - and tell me what you want, encouragement, constructive criticism, something else? don't forget to give me tips on mine too though, as that's why I created this post

ah I actually listened to that video a while back, so if he says the same thing as me then maybe I subconsciously rehashed what he said. Hopefully I said the odd 'original' thing though, lol I feel fine making them and quite confident, however I've taken a lot of steps in my life (particularly recently) so that I don't give a shit if I get negative remarks any more. One of the main ways I've done this is simply by cutting all negative people out of my life. I've been ruthless about this and I've also began to confront my parents about what a shitty job they did and are still doing. So yeah, that makes it a bit easier. I also have a fair bit of life experience and I've not even began to discuss the multitude of topics on my mind. So I feel really liberated by it actually. If you're struggling I'd start by making a list of all the things that scare you about it and see what you'd have to do to remove each one If you make a video, let me know and I'll watch and like and comment

nobody? not one person?

Forgive me if this is in the wrong place but I've decided to put some work into creating a youtube channel, expressing my thoughts. I think this will be therapeutic for me and perhaps helpful to others: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJcBA-_bkK5nYFhA5Ols-fA I'm still working out a few issues of my own and the guys here on the boards are helping me. As I value clear thinking peoples' opinion over all others, I wonder if anyone would take a look at my channel and make any comments or suggestions, either here or on youtube?

Thank you for your question Robin. What is it to 'understand'? hmmm.... I think you might have hit the nail on the head. I think my issue lies in the the fact that I feel I don't understand enough about the world and how it works (this probably translates to not knowing enough about myself). As such I have a lot of trepidation about making my next move in life. So far everything I've done has ultimately ended in failure and I feel I need to know why before I start something new. I will look at this today, thank you ----------------- Thank you Pepin, it was really helpful when you said that psychological phenomena has no relation to reality/the physical world. I agree with this and think it is only our perception of the physical world that is affected by them. I understand what you say about mysticism being 'junk'. However, I do think that the these phenomena can be helpful as they have enabled me to transition from a dark place, to a wierd place, to a light place. I don't think I would have been receptive to philosophical thinking from my initial starting point. I think mysticism has its place, as a transitionary phase... almost like going through therapy. There are many people who want to stay in that world and to keep others there as well, the key is not to get stuck there. ----------------- I've decided to write the story of my childhood so that I can better understand things and then discuss it with my family. Does anyone have any tips on this?

Thanks for your posts everyone. I'm starting to realise that this is something I need to work through. I've written and re-written this post many times so it's clearly an emotive and confusing topic for me... I think I can break my difficulties into two areas: 1) There is so much in life that cannot be fully explained with current scientific knowledge, e.g. the fact that life exists at all or what is 'dark matter'. As new discoveries are made all the time, I feel uneasy with the concept of saying 'there are certain things we as a species don't understand, however we know X for a fact.' To me if you don't understand everything how can you understand anything? For example how can I say: there may be 'parallel universes but I don't think there is an afterlife'?, how can I say that 'virtual reality is now so good that you almost cant tell the difference with reality (see the more advanced variations on the oculus rift) however I don't think that I am in a virtual reality'? 2) Do I only have this viewpoint because of my childhood? Will the above area become clear to me as I work further through my childhood issues? If that is true and my interest dwindles I still don't think that would nullify the validity of the points I make.

thanks for the response guys I've since listened to Stefs podcasts on the topic of mysticism and also take on board what you both say. I was getting a little mixed up as to whether the experiences were relevant to the workings/science of this world. However as you say, they cannot be verified, and so I'll take them simply as an external manifestation of my internal state. With further reflection I see that what I experienced would certainly relate to the trauma of my childhood. Which, although, quite disturbing to know that is still deep inside is also a relief to know that the world hasn't turned upside down. I kind of like the laws of physics etc, they're pretty predictable and you know where you are.

What are peoples thoughts on mysticism? I vaguely recall Stefan stating that you cannot have a rational mystic, or at least they're not the norm. If you had, for example, a mystical experience where you experienced an alternative reality would you write this off as a malfunction of the brain or evidence of things beyond our current scientific awareness? What if it challenged everything in everyday existence?

Sounds like a nice idea, I'd start with a working prototype at a small/local level. Having this in place would bring in more talent for the global scheme.