PGP

It sucks to lose parents, especially when young. I empathise with that. My old man died ten years ago, 2005 and it was sudden. He was being divorced by my mother at the time and I am ashamed for taking her side in the divorce. She would have left him living in a field at 61 in a caravan, because she forced the sale of the house he had built with his own hands. It was such a mess. He was a tee-totaller, but what I have called a "dry-drunk". It was a very unpleasant house to grow up in, but nonetheless, when he died, I cried buckets. The only thing he ws good at was working and I think my tendency toward workaholicism later on is from that. Other than that, I am very grateful to come across FDR to have a model of masculinity that I can aspire to. Also, some others I greatly admire and I have mentioned them previously. I have thought that the grief I had at the time was what is called "sehnsucht" in German, a yearning for something that never existed. That now, could never exist. It makes one keenly aware that what they spend their time on is all there is. This moment. And, I have had to make some very big decisions to get to where I am now with this in mind. In this, defooing was paramount. Getting over it, for me, was difficult at the time. Alot of cunning people moved while I grieved. It was messy. I take what I wished it could have been like and I incorporate that into what can be. Do for yourself what he could not. That grieving for what was never there though, that is tricky. It is important, I think, to write it all down and see him as objectively as possible within the family system. And part of that is judgement.

From: https://anupturnedsoul.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/the-absent-father-and-the-devouring-mother/ This almost perfectly describes my childhood into adulthood. In common with the author, I have begun recovery on my own terms and I am now in a very good place. The best standard of life I have ever had. And, just like him, there can and will be no going back. I am posting this out of the hope that it may help someone else here. Also, I would greatly appreciate comments from anyone else that has gone through this themselves or is learned in the subject. I think it can be hard for many to understand the carnage such an upbringing can bring and that it can perpetuate into the future. That is, of course, unless an individual, like myself, takes the measures necessary and does the work necessary to change the script. I have alot of hard graft under my belt and I approach the future on my own terms. THE ABSENT FATHER AND THE DEVOURING MOTHER January 17, 2014 The title of this post comes from the first two chapters of the book – Going Mad to Stay Sane: The Psychology of Self-Destructive Behaviour by Andy White. It is one of my favourite books as it explained my parents to me so well and so clearly that there were moments when I wondered if the author knew them as I did. He also helped to explain myself, my behaviour, self hate, self-destructiveness, and otherwise, to me and show me the roots of it and how to deprogram myself. The book is out of print, hard to find and expensive if you do find it. However I have written to the author and he replied to say that he is about to publish a new book and is also working on getting Going Mad to Stay Sane reprinted and perhaps also available as an ebook. His publishers might need a bit of encouragement regarding the reprint based on supply and demand. I did consider starting a petition… I will let you know if and when the book is available in case you are interested. I feel slightly guilty for recommending it to people because of how important a part it played in my self-therapy, but I don’t regret recommending it and I hope you’ll soon have access to it at an affordable price. The author uses mythology – The story of Midas – to give insight into the psychology behind self-destructiveness. This mythological perspective is invaluable for those who are children of Narcissists, because Narcissists are living a mythical life. They are living a lie, but that lie is very grandiose, larger than life, of mythic, epic and legendary proportions. The use of mythology was the difference which made reading this book clarify my confusion. I have read a lot about Narcissists and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The best information I have had has come from children of Narcissists who have written about their experiences. The information which comes from psychologists I have usually found to be too clinical and logical, reflecting the professionalism of the author and their need to appear professional, detached from and above it all, sane and healthy, and show that they understand the subject and the patients affected by it. But this is not helpful to those affected by those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder because there is nothing sane or logical or clinical or healthy about it. Not when you live with it as a victim of Narcissists. It’s a confusing mess which seems impossible to clarify and tidy – a Gordian Knot. As much as other authors have captured the basics of Narcissists, Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Narcissistic parents, they rarely understand what it is like to be completely screwed up by it and fight to stay afloat in a quagmire which is both outside and inside of you. They never explained Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a living and breathing experience. And they certainly never captured what it feels like to grow up in such an environment where you are a tiny thing being lorded over by giants who think they are gods who own you, and who create a surreal version of reality populated by mythical quests and mythological creatures that you have to carry out and conquer for the Narcissists. And they never charted the course of the child’s psychological development as it tries to cope with the illogical reality, the paradoxes and irreconcilable conflicts, imposed on it from the moment it is born, and how to survive that child must split itself and deny itself, and learn to loathe itself, and sacrifice itself on the altar of its parents fantastical illusions and imagined greatness. “The awful contradiction in expectations that Gordius (ed: Midas’ Absent Father) and Cybele (ed: Midas’ Devouring Mother) have of their son, coupled with the utterly polarised views that each parent holds of Midas, threaten to tear him in two. He cannot succeed in the eyes of one parent without damning himself in the eyes of the other. Gordius relates to Midas as a failure. Cybele relates to him as a personal saviour. Gordius uses his authority to dismiss, Cybele uses hers to possess. Gordius withholds his blessing because Midas has fallen short precisely in those realms that Cybele demands that he must fail, in his autonomy and individuality. Gordius is cold and disinterested, utterly dismissive of Midas’ fate except that he should divest Gordius of his depression and low self-esteem. Cybele is the opposite, hysterical and invasive, holding the threat of her wrath over Midas should he have any aspiration towards his own independence, crushing his free spirit with her neediness and anxiety. If Midas embodies the hero demanded of him by Gordius with its connotations of personal mastery, ingenuity and leadership, those qualities personified by the transcending spirit of Alexander (ed: who slices the Gordian Knot with his sword and inherits the kingdom), he must betray Cybele whose covert injunction it is that he live life in her service. If he renounces his independence and personal potency in order to kindle his Mother’s affections then he fails in Gordius’ eyes and earns only his father’s contempt. Midas is caught in a trap. His true self is not only under attack but also caught in a crossfire. His only hope is to internalise this crossfire and to make of his soul a battlefield where the remnants of his own authority are firmly trampled into the irreconcilable mud of a profoundly self-destructive neurosis.” – ©Andy White – Going Mad to Stay Sane – Chapter 3 Self-Hatred: A Legacy. When the father is absent, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc, from the child’s life it leaves a void. This void isn’t empty, it is filled with longing, yearning need. The child seeks to make a connection with the father in some way, any way possible. Whatever the child has to do to win the father’s love has to be done even if it means sacrificing everything that belongs to the child as an individual being and becoming someone else to please the father. The space left by an absent father gives the mother more space in the family to take over and devour the child in whatever way she pleases and chooses, usually driven by the mother’s needs for which she seeks fulfillment by and through the child. The child has to allow the mother to devour it because it is the only form of love and connection it can have with the mother. And it is the only way to survive with a mother like that. She devours the child whether it is willing or not, being willing makes it a little bit less traumatic, but not by much. When confronted about his absence by the child, the absent father often plays the victim and blames the mother – the mother may be at fault, probably is, as she often shares with her child her grief and anger at the father, making the child responsible for it and for her emotions and needs – the child of a devouring mother and absent father may be turned into a surrogate spouse by the mother. However when the father blames the mother for his absence, he also blames the child. He is basically telling the child that it must challenge and fight its mother to win the father’s love and attention because the father is too weak to fight the mother to be with his child. What is the child to do? When the mother is confronted… not something the child does very often due to the way she reacts, but should the child be bold enough to do so, the mother blames the father, thus blaming the child. The mother quite likes these sorts of confrontations because it gives her another opportunity to devour her child and to justify the devouring. She had to fill the space vacated by the father, play the roles of mother and father, the child needs to be eternally grateful for the invasive devouring love of the mother. The child owes the mother its life. And then she points out that the father obviously does not love the child or he would be there for the child regardless of how he feels about the mother and how she feels about him. She has tried to protect the child from the awful truth that the father does not love it, but since the child has confronted her, all must now be revealed. What is a child to do? The extract from Going Mad to Stay Sane above completely describes my relationship with my parents and how it affected me. I’ve spoken about it at length in many of my posts so I won’t elaborate on it here. Even when I cut off all contact with my parents, the dynamic continued inside of me threatening my new life, and inspiring self-sabotage of myself and of any relationships I had with others. It’s been a long, hard and exhausting battle to free myself from my legacy of self-hatred, to stop my urge to self-destruct, and to deprogram myself from the cult of my family, my absent father and my devouring mother. It’s become less of a battle now and more of a jousting contest. It’s been worth it. If you have been affected by parents like mine and similar issues as those which I have and have had… don’t give up on yourself, you have great strength and a very resilient spirit. You have a rich reserve within you of personal power, and once you tap into it, your life will become yours, gradually at first, baby step by baby step, and slowly it will pick up momentum. The hardest step is the first one, that’s when you cross the threshold from victim into victor. The victiory will take time and the campaign will be a long one. Have patience with yourself. Be determined. You may falter at times. Be gentle and compassionate with yourself. You will make it. Trust yourself. The process to heal yourself and your life is painful, difficult and challenging, but one of the gifts in the curse which your experiences have given you is the knowledge that you are a survivor, you can face anything if you want to, and now you are ready to thrive. Take care of yourself.

Wise words. I had taken that into consideration. I was not explicit in this, but yes, that is my position. The individual and the collective in this case are but different shades of the same colour. Costs and benefits.

I had to decide whether to go to a funeral recently of someone (a relative) I thought horrid. I gave the decision very careful thought and I decided not to go and I am glad I made that decision. In the culture I live in, this is a decision not without cost, but the rubber has to meet the road at some point. This podcast might help others with a similar decision to make. https://player.fm/episodes?q=molyneux,%20grieving

My experience of this is that once a person has choice independent of conforming to the irrational and perhaps even malicious, self-serving demands of others, discipline and self-control is, dare I say it, easy. In my own case, seeing my family for what they are and dealing with it allows my intelligence to come to fruition. Having traction in reality free from others crazy-making. Just my experience though.

This lady rocks. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-24/fck-court-woman-who-took-ak-47-jailbreak-pens-epic-rant-against-judge <p style=" margin: 12px auto 6px auto; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; display: block;"> <a title="View 262792039 Fuck This Court on Scribd" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/262947753" style="text-decoration: underline;" >262792039 Fuck This Court</a></p><iframe class="scribd_iframe_embed" src="https://www.scribd.com/embeds/262947753/content?start_page=1&view_mode=scroll&show_recommendations=true" data-auto-height="false" data-aspect-ratio="undefined" scrolling="no" id="doc_2236" width="100%" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Thanks for the answer DaviesMa. In respect of brainwashing her son to be a simp ( a simp-son perhaps...;-P), she is also laying the turf for her old age. Preparing him for slavery on two fronts, with a prospective wife and for herself. Rational self-interest, but of course bordering evil also. Poor little chap.

He had the balls to put himself in harms way for freedom from tyranny. Puts him above almost anyone else in history in my estimation. Revisionism of rebellion, I have found, leads invariably to an acceptance of what came before, an assumption that freedom would have been granted through peaceful means. It is curious that rebellions lead to freedom (at least the promise of it) in history when viewed retrospectively from a safe vantage.

I have some questions: -How is what this woman is doing incompatible with Rands selfishness? -Also, how is what this woman is doing to her family different from what Rand did in her own life to her husband? I specify doing versus justification. -Hypothethically, for those with knowledge of Rand, if she had had a child, how would she have acted materially differently from this woman? This last question is speculation, just a thought exercise.

This may help. I quit smoking after smoking most of 14 years in January (Guns and Roses-14 years, if this was a film, it would be playing ;-P). Enough with my narkery..... Quitting smoking is a part of a process for me that will go on for some time to come, but at that time, I wrote this: "It has just occurred to me that smoking acts as a coping mechanism for me in life. It does this in this manner: I am reducing my life to what is manageable. What I think I can control. In this absence of uncertainty, the vast world and the uncertainties it brings are waiting. Within my sphere, the challenge/uncertainty is smoking. It occupies my mind and my emotion. It functions as a focal point for my attention and therefore precludes my attention on greater or other things. If I stop smoking, the uncertainties of the world that have built up and all of my other issues present themselves. This is scary as hell. It is also the nature of men to require this uncertainty. Without it, we are nothing. In order to deal with this great Unknown, the capacity, wisdom and knowledge of a man must be suited somewhat to the challenge at hand. If not, he will either be bored or overwhelmed. The danger in quitting smoking is that the world seems overwhelming to me. I have so much to do and achieve and it is hard. But, I am also free and capable and smart and independently-minded. So, the strategy would be to break everything down to what is manageable. What is priority and what is important and what is not. Nonetheless, there is stress involved in this change. How I deal with this stress will define my future and my destiny, my view of the world and my place in it." --------- In short, the safety of any one particular situation is an illusion. Mastering one part of life leads to more and then exponentially more uncertainty and unknown. In your current situation, you have the illusion of safety in an abusive environment. You don't necessarily need courage, just to see things for what they are and then act rationally. You are going to die anyway. Please, just don't take 14 years like I did ;-D.

Interesting couch. For some reason I am thinking of Pink Floyd.

Groundwork For The Metaphysics Of MGTOW : Three videos that stand out are on nihilism(2 part) and friendship. Mind Mastery: Very efficient. Bernard Chapin: His vitriol for and pillorying of the Left is a joy. FreedomForceUSA : A rock of sense on economic and business shenanigans.

It's minority "privilege" to hit kids.

It's really great to see this getting into Uni's. When people say "I have an idea", did they have "an idea"? Probably not, they almost certainly remembered an idea someone else came up with. Why is this? Perhaps because original thought is so damn hard. Now, in terms of peaceful parenting, could the case be made that PP itself is necessary for radical thought to take place in the first place on any grand scale? ie independent thought free from trauma. So, while PP is perhaps radical in the cultural context o f today and the entirety of human history, it could be a door to heretofore un-imagined thinking and creativity. It's interesting to me, as I am reading Altuchers book "Choose Yourself" and the new book on money he has published. He makes the case for "ideas" forming the basis of any future economy, with the gate-keepers of old and of today circumvented. I think he is right and PP fits snugly into success in this new world.

Any potential future arguments against artificial wombs are fading away, the more of this stuff comes out.

Why not offer psychotherapy atm? Over skype even? You might have to call it something else due to licensing etc, but if you have the knowledge, why not?

So, you are just playing a game? I suppose we are guilty of being alive. In respect of your argument, if humans do not voluntarily extinct, what other measures should be taken in your view? Perhaps a middle-ground compromise? What would that entail? It would be a relief not to have to extinct, if only an alternative was constructed to relieve us of this guilt. People would feel better at any rate.

If humans have been and indeed continue to be as destructive as you say, and hence immoral according to your standard of protecting other species, then how do you reasonably expect humans to voluntarily extinct? If voluntary extinction is "Plan A", then what is your "Plan B"? If "Plan A" is infinitesimally probable with the current human stock, then, considering we are immoral, how do you proposeto change this immoral position/state? Do you believe it possible to engineer people to this end, or to use persuasion?

"Imposter syndrome" is a hedge against incompetence. If your not successful, it's because you are made to feel uncomfortable in being competent. If you are successful, it's because you have had to prove yourself even more than the "dominant" group. There will always be a branch for these people to cling on to. When I was in school, rape was presented as a man overpowering a woman. It was presented as being about power, not sex. Now it is about sex. It is about sex and in being so, it is used to exert power over the male gender. It all comes down to power, that's all.

This was posted on a video recently(replace "woman" with "radical feminist" in the interests of PC): I hold to my assertion that women's only real connection to reality is their feelings. How they feel is reality to them. And, we all know feelings change (especially when they aren't based on anything) and thus REALITY changes for women. They don't "feel" like they are lying because their feelings on the matter may have really changed. Thus, the reality of the event actually changed (in their mind at least). That is why you have to document EVERYTHING when women are involved. And, of course, because admitting to lying doesn't "feel" good, they won't want to admit they lied. They won't even address the issue if you confront them. They will say something to the effect of "you just don't understand what this FEELS like", "you don't understand what women go through" or some other code for essentially "you just don't get that reality changes when my feelings do". Finally, yes pretty much all women ARE like that. They "feel" one thing when exercising power, and "feel" something else entirely when they are held accountable and have to face the consequences of their actions. And, thus have no problem with two version of reality about the exact same event....the powerful women teaching a man a lesson, and the helpless victim being abused by a man ("blaming the victim"). Men's feelings change as well, and men are perfectly capable of lying as well. The difference (in the majority of men at least) is that men have enough grounding in reality to understand that they lying. Even if you are able to get a women to admit things didn't happen the way they said they did (I.E. they lied about it), the vast majority STILL won't admit to lying about it. They just get upset and confused, and "feel" like you are attacking them....and thus reality for them is that you are.

Interesting that you just constructed a game with rules that places animal "sensation" equivalent to human "sensation" with the conclusion that animals have suffered and died, therefore humans must die off willingly. You also lump us into a species with some collective guilt. That's an interesting game you have designed. Secondly, our knowledge of ecosystem functioning and services and all that mumbo jumbo from the Agenda 21 is very limited. Yet, in order to manage it, we just have to give up our freedoms a little bit here and a little bit there and feel really bad about it. That's an interesting game also. The development of knowledge to work with nature and therefore profit in perpetuity is absolutely vital to the future of the life-supporting functioning of the planet. How that is achieved is another matter.

Shouldn't the priority be working on a time machine to go back and save the dinosaurs? Maybe go back and prosecute Genghis Khan for crimes against humanity for all that evil procreation, or better still go back and cut Adams balls off? Take the ribs aswell, just to be sure. Sneaky Yahweh.

I was thinking about the Arwen/Aragorn dynamic recently. Its so long since I read the books that I'm going off the film, but, it was the sacrifice of Arwen in choosing a mortal life and having the sword re-forged that allowed the fight to even take place. Allowed the destiny to be fulfilled. A critical control point. Then, this allowed the dead to rise (I think of this as the best of the dead, their ideas), and then the child-like creature of innocence had the opportunity to save the men from doom. Arwen had a good father.

Some tidbits of information on the BIS and the European "project". Excerpts taken from article. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-11/meet-secretive-group-runs-world The following is an excerpt from TOWER OF BASEL: The Shadowy History of the Secret Bank that Runs the World by Adam LeBor. "The founder of the technocrats’ cabal was Per Jacobssen, the Swedish economist who served as the BIS’s economic adviser from 1931 to 1956. The bland title belied his power and reach. Enormously influential, well connected, and highly regarded by his peers, Jacobssen wrote the first BIS annual reports, which were—and remain—essential reading throughout the world’s treasuries. Jacobssen was an early supporter of European federalism. He argued relentlessly against inflation, excessive government spending, and state intervention in the economy. Jacobssen left the BIS in 1956 to take over the IMF. His legacy still shapes our world. The consequences of his mix of economic liberalism, price obsession, and dismantling of national sovereignty play out nightly in the European news bulletins on our television screens." "The reality is that we have moved beyond recession into a deep structural crisis, one fueled by the banks’ greed and rapacity, which threatens all of our financial security. Just as in the 1930s, parts of Europe face economic collapse. The Bundesbank and the European Central Bank, two of the most powerful members of the BIS, have driven the mania for austerity that has already forced one European country, Greece, to the edge, aided by the venality and corruption of the country’s ruling class. Others may soon follow. The old order is creaking, its political and financial institutions corroding from within. From Oslo to Athens, the far right is resurgent, fed in part by soaring poverty and unemployment. Anger and cynicism are corroding citizens’ faith in democracy and the rule of law. Once again, the value of property and assets is vaporizing before their owners’ eyes. The European currency is threatened with breakdown, while those with money seek safe haven in Swiss francs or gold. The young, the talented, and the mobile are again fleeing their home countries for new lives abroad.The powerful forces of international capital that brought the BIS into being, and which granted the bank its power and influence, are again triumphant. The BIS sits at the apex of an international financial system that is falling apart at the seams, but its officials argue that it does not have the power to act as an international financial regulator. Yet the BIS cannot escape its responsibility for the Euro-zone crisis. From the first agreements in the late 1940s on multilateral payments to the establishment of the Europe Central Bank in 1998, the BIS has been at the heart of the European integration project, providing technical expertise and the financial mechanisms for currency harmonization. During the 1950s, it managed the European Payments Union, which internationalized the continent’s payment system. The BIS hosted the Governors’ Committee of European Economic Community central bankers, set up in 1964, which coordinated trans-European monetary policy. During the 1970s, the BIS ran the “Snake,” the mechanism by which European currencies were held in exchange rate bands. During the 1980s the BIS hosted the Delors Committee, whose report in 1988 laid out the path to European Monetary Union and the adoption of a single currency. The BIS midwifed the European Monetary Institute (EMI), the precursor of the European Central Bank. The EMI’s president was Alexandre Lamfalussy, one of the world’s most influential economists, known as the “Father of the euro.” Before joining the EMI in 1994, Lamfalussy had worked at the BIS for seventeen years, first as economic adviser, then as the bank’s general manager."

I think Spetsnaz made one very important point (among his amazing content) and that is that MGTOW is a process that is to be gone through, it is not a destination. Part of my process is seeing that I had no business expecting an objectively quality woman in the past (in the self-knowledge sense) because I was and continue to be of low quality(though heading in the right direction now). Just a fact. The so-called red-pill in terms of "female nature" is but a part of an all-encompassing illusion of enslavement and I think the progression to anarchy will be precipitated by MGTOW. Why should we be ruled by anyone? Thanks feminism!!!