corbyco

Excellent - thank you everyone for engaging. What I hope to gain from this forum: Where I am wrong then I will be guided to the truth by philosophical discussion. Where I am nearer the truth perhaps others will be guided nearer to it. No I dont believe that respect should ever be automatic - but surely the point of a philosophical forum is to at least take a little time to point out errors with evidence - politely - even if (especially if?) you believe someone to be way off the truth. I am a firm believer in the scientific method and am not saying that corrupt and biased scientists invalidate the method - just that they are not following it. (Listen to Stefan talking about climate change distorted evidence for example). It means you cant just quote scientists to prove a point - you need to dig deeper. OK - so I picked this forum first because I consider this one of the few subjects that Stefan seems to bring up with bitterness and misunderstanding. I have the greatest respect for the amount of research that goes into almost every other subject but am amazed when Stefan refers only to religion with the same statements describing an abusive aggressive cult - which is completely not my experience from dozens of churches I have attended around the world in the last 20 years. (I travel a lot) My experience of Christianity is almost exactly one of a free market. The Church is offering a service that you can listen to, or not, support, or not, give money to, or not. The ones that dont get support fail and close. The ones that people connect with and find helpful flourish. I know there are Catholic, Muslim and cult churches that are not like this but I have never, ever, been told in the Protestant church, that if I dont give money, dont obey the leaders, dont believe the leaders, I will go to hell. Its the opposite. You are saved by grace - and its free and it cant be taken away from you. I do however give money to the church. I was for a long time part of the leadership of one church where every single penny given either went to the sick, the poor or those with a temporary need - home and abroad - and if anything was left over it helped fix the roof. Our current church got hold of dozens of mobile homes after Hurricane Sandy hit ( USA ) and put up lots of families for free until they got sorted out. All paid for by voluntary gifts to the church. Crowd funded? The congregations are full of people wanting to learn how to follow a non-aggression principle - called being loving to everyone whatever their background, gender, race, skin colour and even if we dont agree with their lifestyle. BUT - how ever much I think this is all excellent - I still keep a door open to the possibility that perhaps God doesnt exist and that all of the good that we do is just due to our passion to do good - not because a 'God' is using us to do good. At 55 I think I have had enough personal experiences to feel confident I am close to the truth - but I will try and keep an open mind until I die. Thank you everyone for taking the time to contribute. Please guide me to what particularly can be discussed most usefully. What is the absolute core of your atheism? How about we start with forgiveness? As I understand it Jesus invented forgiveness as before Him it was always an eye for an eye and the right of revenge. I think I am right in saying that Stefan does not believe in forgiveness (please forgive me if I am misrepresenting) and yet I have proven again and again to myself that when I forgive it sets me free from bitterness, fear and the desire for revenge. I would of course not give the person the chance to hurt me again, and even involve the law so that they reap the correct consequences of their actions - but I then forgive and hope they learn how they have been wrong, wish them well and get on with my life. It makes me feel free from the past and start afresh.

-How many of you are vegetarians/vegans and what do you think about the lifestyle? I have been a vegan for nearly 4 years. I am vegan because I believe it is healthier - my blood pressure, cholesterol, and fats fell to perfect levels once on the diet and there is a lot of evidence that animal protein encourages cancer; its moral, I dont want animals to suffer on my behalf; and its a more efficient system for feeding the populations - eat the veg rather than feeding to the animals and then eating them. It is a little inconvenient when eating out - but that's fine. -Do you guys see eating meat as wrong even though morals can't be considered when an animal is involved due to their lack of capability to understand morals? Yes. Now I know I don't have to eat meat then all killing of animals for food is unnecessary - and it is absolutely wrong to inflict pain and suffering if it is not necessary for our survival. We nursed our dog for months when it was sick - I just cannot disconnect this from the idea of deliberately inflicting pain on other animals. -Do the cravings for meat every go away because I cannot stop thinking about it? My taste buds definitely changed very quickly. All fruit and veg have much more flavour. I now cant look at meat without seeing a piece of dead cow or chicken and how it used to be alive and running around a field. I do not have any cravings other than occasionally for the texture. I went to Greece this summer and said I might have a piece of fresh fish as I have such fond memories of a taverna by the water and selecting a fish caught that morning - but on the day I just could not bring myself to do it after so many years of veganism. -Is it even healthy for humans to go vegan/vegetarian because I literally hear two sides to all of it and being as uneducated as I am in the health department, I can't figure out which is correct and incorrect? It is healthier for me. I have the obligatory medical every year and my results are fantastic. I also believe the results of the China study and follow up experiments which point to the connection between animal protein and cancer (hence why I am a Vegan rather than a Vegetarian). I have not seen any evidence to dispute the findings. -If you are a vegan/vegetarian, do you have any foods/stores you can recommend? Wholefoods (in the USA) are excellent. I have to say I struggled in the UK a little. I absolutely love Mexican roasted vegetable burritos with rice, black beans and guacamole. I ensure I eat oats, beans, nuts, quinoa and ground flax seed for protein and omega 3's. I take B12 suppliments even though its in the rice, almond, oat, coconut etc milks I drink. Just want to be sure.

This is my first day here and already I am a disturbed by some lack of integrity and respect especially regarding Christianity. I am a Christian and still consider myself a scientist and a philosopher. I hope that all discussions can be with mutual respect so that if I am wrong in anything I believe to be true then I can be shown that, by being guided to the truth through logical argument and demonstration of evidence. I believe that a philosopher (and a scientist) always must have an open mind throughout their life BUT is 'allowed' to decide that certain ideas or statements are proven sufficiently to be taken as true - and so used as a foundation to build on - until proven otherwise. I was brought up as an Atheist but still read the Bible from beginning to end twice (second time skipped a bit) to see what it said and what it didnt say. I absolutely believe in the scientific method but my scientific studies have come across the incredible bias and corruption of scientists - i.e. a lot of the time they dont follow the method. Corruption abounds not just when money is at stake but also when dealing with our origins which puts everything at stake. I have had some incredible experiences that I can only label as spiritual and these have caused me to test out many of the profound statements attributed to Jesus - and found them to be surprisingly true. This is why I can consider myself a Christian and yet still able to engage in philosophy and science.