awt

Just an update. We've now been to two couples therapy sessions. My wife went on a tirade in the first session (and the second session, with swearing), just like she does at me and our daughter, in private. The poor guy almost told us he couldn't help us, after the first session, but he stuck with us, and I think we've made a little progress. Also my wife didn't get good enough grades to stay in law school, so that's over for now. Stephen: I've often thought of videoing or recording something, but that's hard to pull off. Plus, she did it in front of the therapist, which is just as good if not better. mellomama, I have checked out alturtle. I'm still working my way through RTR though.

I guess things weren't going as well as I thought. My wife finished her finals last week. Shortly after, she had a major outburst, with yelling and crying. She tends to make false accusations (you're having an affair, etc.) for which there's no way to prove my innocence. Happens over and over. In this instance I did not respond with yelling, though I did not allow myself to be cowed. I had a very different reaction, internally, this time than I've had before. Usually, the such an outburst would cause me to feel very high levels of stress. The kind that makes it so you can't sleep for a day or so, that just washes over you, kills your appetite, etc. Something was different. I could kind of understand what was going on in her head. I know what it's like to work your ass off on something for a long time, and then for it to suddenly be over. Even if the outcome of your effort was good, you can feel depressed when it's suddenly over and you become somewhat directionless. I think this is what she was going through. Obviously she could have handled it better, and been more aware of the source of her feelings. Also, after listening to so many of Stef's shows, I could instantly identify her use of various manipulative techniques. Knowing what they were saved me the trouble of feeling their sting. Later that day she sent me a text saying she was sorry, and I did something I normally would not have done. I didn't feel any bitterness or rage, I just immediately texted back that I accepted her apology. Maybe a year ago, I would have spent the next week fantasizing about a divorce, and regretting marrying her and on and on, but I didn't feel that way this time.

Sure. Anytime I'm around and I hear their conversation devolving into bickering, or I hear her attempting to bully or manipulate her, I step in with a statement like. "What's going on here?" "What's the problem?" I act very quickly and assertively. I was and still am very consistent about it, though it happens a lot less. There were a couple of times where I was the target of a tirade (with our daughter watching), once because I wanted to keep the blinds closed after having had eye surgury a week before, and responded by rasing my voice to the same level as hers which frankly was at shouting level, and which I've *almost never* done before. I of course apologized sincerely to my daughter afterwards for her having to see that. I'm trying to think about exactly what I've said to her regarding the bitterness I feel. I've told her that I feel like a single parent, at least a couple of times. She will usually respond by saying that even though right now she's not helping with either paying bills or raising the kid, that after law school is over she will. I wish I could believe that, but when you owe 300k in student loans, and are starting out at a new firm or company with average starting salaries for the 60% of applicants that get jobs of 80k/yr (in the SF Bay area that's not much -- that's living with roommates), you won't be contributing much to the family in terms of either time or money. Also, let's say at some point she's ready to be a parent, when our daughter is 8 or 10, for example. Well, that's a lot easier than it was when she was 3,4,5, and 6. So I'm not sure there is much she can do at this point about my bitterness. Can't go back in time and not sign the student loan document... I think it would take years of her being *really* nice to me for me to stop being bitter.

I wanted to update this thread. Recently things have been a lot better between my wife and I. I'm not sure exactly why, probably a combination of things. I started responding VERY aggressively to any instances of her yellying at or intimidating our daughter, and after a few weeks of that, something clicked in her brain - like - she became aware of what she was doing, and she has really toned it down. Also, things have been a lot better between us sexually (we changed up our birth control method), which has helped my happiness level on a day to day basis a lot. I am still sad that she has chosen to pursue a law degree rather than spend time with her 5 yo kid, but there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that now. The choice has been made, the student loan money has been spent, and there is no better mother out there for my daughter. I will always wonder what it would have been like to have a parter who was "around," and I will always harbor some bitterness about it.

Thanks mahayana. This weighs heavily on my mind. I have stepped in on many occasions - which inevitably causes a bigger fight, but as you say at least she knows someone is on her side, even if it doesn't prevent future harassment. Divorce is really rolling the dice though as far as I can tell. Who knows how that would turn out? She might end up with her mom full time and at that point there would be nothing I could do to protect her.

Thanks Logan. The escalation and name calling is so boring and repetitive, and yet still painful every time We do not agree on parenting styles, and how we'd like to raise her, although seeing as she has no time to parent, being in law school, I tend to have more influence there. The major problem I have (other than her being mostly absent) is that she thinks it's ok to yell at, nag and intimidate our daughter (and me). There was not much thinking about values going on when we were courting -- a lot of working, TV watching and traveling. I have RTR but have not read all the way through yet. I owe it to my daughter to read that book and try its suggestions out.

Kurtis, thankyou for your response. I was in therapy for about 4 months. I definitely have a lot more work to do on myself. I am very angry about the unfairness of this situation, and I can't seem to get a grip on my passive aggression. It is so totally built in. All I can say is that I'm thankful that I'm at least aware of it now. I have a very limited support system. My Dad visited for a few months this year to help out with childcare in the evenings and weekends. My aunt takes my daughter one evening a week. My Mom has basically checked out. She says I can bring her to visit, but it never works out. She plays in a bluegrass band and is out most nights and sleeps several hours during the day so my daughter ends up watching TV while she sleeps and I work. I think you're right that the best thing to do is couples therapy. Thanks Hamish. Great question about virtues. She is very loyal. Although she constantly suspects me of cheating on her (because that's what her dad did) and taking advantage of her (because that's what her father, mother, and brother did), she would never cheat on me. She is motivated by a desire to do good, however misguided I believe her efforts to be. She was born in a refugee camp and grew up as a minority in the US (and suffered child abuse). I think she believes that by becoming a lawyer she can help her people and others like her. Frankly I don't think becoming a slave to the US legal system and incurring a massive amount of debt at the age of 38 with a 5 year old kid will help anyone, but I see where she's coming from. I do not believe she is capable at this point of introspection - I think it's just too painful for her. She can personalize *any* topic not involving furniture, party planning, clothing choice, etc. Can't talk about Hillary clinton or public school - ends in a fit of rage. You know - Hillary clinton is a woman, I am a woman, therefor nothing may be wrong with Hillary Clinton. She went to public school so there can't be anything bad about public school. Sometimes she says things aloud about herself that she knows are true like "I have PTSD." But her understanding of this is at a superficial level and doesn't seem to connect.

My wife and I have been married for 6 years, and have an (almost) 5 year old daughter. My wife is verbally abusive. I knew this before I married her, but did not fully understand at the age of 27 when we moved in together how this would intensify after getting married and becoming parents. It did not occur to me that anyone would yell at and nag their child on a daily basis. She stayed home for the first 2 years after our daughter was born. When our daughter was 3, she chose to pursue a law degree. This has left me fully financially responsible for the family, and for parenting. I would estimate that I do 80% of the parenting, and earn 100% of the income. This would not be so bad if I didn't have to put up with daily verbal abuse about not doing x chore right, or hearing her start a fight with our 5 year old daily. I've done a lot of thinking about how I ended up in this situation - why I chose her. I believe I chose her because she asked nothing of me emotionally. She can hold entire conversations with herself without ever requiring any sort of response. She viewed sex as transactional which made things easy for a passive aggressive person such as myself. Likewise, she is not curious about my thoughts and feelings, so I didn't have to share my deep seated fears about relationships and trust. Being a child of divorce, I was not aware of what I was missing. After listening to Stefan daily for nearly a year, I am now *painfully* aware of what I and my daughter are missing. To be able to hold a meaningful conversation with my spouse not ending in shouting and ad hominems... what would life be like? To be able to discuss any serious topic without triggering a narcissistic rage... Not to have to put up with the humiliation of succumbing to verbal bullying simply to avoid a fight in front of our daughter... I have seen a therapist. He has recommended couples therapy, which she has reluctantly agreed to, but I've yet to schedule a session. I don't have much hope that counseling will change anything, but I will do it. I fully understand now the importance of fixing this for my daughter - so she can see a successful marriage. The problem is that I don't know if I have the strength to see this through. The fantasy of escaping the daily abuse through divorce or separation or avoidance dogs me constantly. In short, I don't know how to proceed.