drkmdn

I just find it disturbing because he has talked in the past how Hitler used this comparison to provoke painful memories which he would then have the Germans correlate with the Jews. Stef's use of it now (such as in the last call in show) seems calculated and cheesy. And disturbing. Has anyone else noticed this? Is anyone having a visceral reaction towards his choice of imagery? Are his attempts at trying to play the audience like a violin taking hold? Stef you are better than this.

Wow so I suppose if you were Christian, you would have also brainwashed her to believe that angels and sky ghosts came down and took her away to heaven? You should have told her the truth instead of your propaganda. The truth is that nobody knows.

This video really helped me gain clarity in a similar situation. Keep in mind that doing this might be opening the door to more hurt from them. I think there is always a little part of us that hopes they will read the letter, feel horrible, break down, realize what they've done. The reality of that is much different. I'm so sorry for what you went through and glad that you are getting help. No matter what you choose to do Confronting Parents—Its Risk & Valuehttps://youtu.be/ua47SXnthxA

Thanks, Sorry for you too. We'll get through it

Extreme amounts of shame and self hate. I also feel this way. I'm in therapy for it... but no... I don't really see average human life as that valuable, really. Certain human life, yes. The average human, no.

I do this because I am not really looking for friendship. I am looking for people to fill in for me what I never got in my childhood. I think everyone is doing this in every relationship. to some degree. This is not an ideal way to relate to people and I realize that. It makes me a hypocrite too... and I realize that. I am working on it. I am not a closet elistit. I am very public about it, but you are right with that one. I hold high standards for people that will inevitably fail.

Thank you. You are so right. My mother kept shoddy company when I was young and when I refused to interact with hysterical welfare moms and slightly drunk wanderabouts sniffing around for some booty, she called me anti social. I have always mistrusted my judgement in life because of this. I was always left out and I still believe it was because the other girls were into gossiping, boys and dolls while I wanted to read books on biology and ancient Greece, write and solve puzzles. Not much has changed since then. I am unable to discern where the problem lies: me or them. I think it is both, which makes things extra confusing. I have a great therapist who is helping me with this. I don't think I will ever be a fan of "normal" people. And they are everywhere these days. I did misunderstand you, thanks for clarifying. Still, I am disturbed that it seems an icy chill will fall over any couple who is not regularly exchanging bodily fluids. Would you want to be with a woman who you had to keep feeding dollar bills into like a vending machine and if one day you stopped.. maybe for a while... she would slowly grow to hate you? What do you think that means? It's just so messed up. I will go without any of it until I can figure it out, even if that means a life of celibacy. I would rather be alone.... I think. I'd be interested in knowing more about the family history that your behavior was mirroring but completely understand if you are uncomfortable with that. I am trying to find understanding here and the more points of view, the better. I am a huge fan of Daniel Mackler. I hadn't heard he'd changed his stance on sexual relationships. I'm going to check his blog for that update. I really value your input. Thanks again.

Brilliant! Thank you. I've gotten a lot out of this show and enjoyed discovering which themes are resonating with so many people and why. Really looking forward to tonight's season premiere!

Really enjoying this thread. When I look around me, I see people who go with the common beliefs about relationships. Follow biology. Live stereotypical lives of quiet misery and confusion. Then there are those rare people who seem to be advancing in consciousness and don't wish to be beholden to biology. Don't want to play games with trading bananas anymore. Are looking for something real and fighting their biological urges. I like to think I am very different from the majority of women out there who are looking for either beta bucks or alpha fucks. But I am not free from these compulsions. I feel them and experience them. But I fight them. It gets much easier with time. The problem is that I now almost have contempt for men who are attractive or doing well financially. I have conditioned myself this way. Do I want an unemployed man who doesn't take care of his looks, then? Well, no. I want a man who sees my value unclouded by his desire for sex, just like it seems some people here want a woman who isn't wooed by dinner and dresses. I don't know if this man exists. I think when you really REALLY REALLY get right down to it, the value of a woman to man, starts and ends with sex.

This is such a great post. I love all the insightful answers here. You guys are a breath of fresh, non conformist air. Thank you for that. I have always been a fan of Aragorn and Arwen. Beautiful traditional male and female archetypes. They seem to really understand each others deepest and most private struggles and know just how to support the other. A friend recently posted this quote. It really spoke to me as I am also trying to outrun generations of evil momentum. Arwen: Why do you fear the past? You are Isildur’s heir, not Isildur himself. You are not bound to his fate. Aragorn: The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness. Arwen: Your time will come. You will face the same evil, and you will defeat it.

We prefer the term 'childfree'. Ha.

Great post and observations. Since I started therapy and doing inner child work, I began realizing how I used pets to externalize my inner child. I punished and praised accordingly. It was also great to be the boss of someone for a while and have ultimate control. Messed up. Now when I see people who surround themselves with kids and dogs who were bred just to please them it really pisses me off. I always always feel like saying LEAVE THE DOG....PUT THE PUGS DOWN...STEP AWAY FROM THE TODDLERS... go get some freaking therapy. Geez. I am the product of dysfunctional and traumatized people who should have been fixed from birth. At least they were put down early (before age 50) but not before they could have 3 illegitimate children who would suffer greatly in life. I am furious at my mother for having me and my siblings and raising us fatherless in poverty. I am estranged from whatever family I still have alive. I feel alone, broken and like I will never belong in this world. Single mothers are incredibly selfish people.

"....suddenly have more time and energy to spend time, be honest, and be supportive of your friends. You grow closer and these relationships eventually become much stronger and rewarding than the pair bond." Yes. This will happen. Until they meet someone. And have kids. This is inevitable unless they are also going their own way. In an ideal world, newly coupled people would still maintain their degree of closeness in friendships that they had prior to their relationship. In the real world, this does not happen and it's the natural course of things. "many of his most loyal listeners will never manage to heal themselves enough to maintain Steph's idealism. I don't think he is wrong to do this either because he speaks to a wide audience and he is engaging in a multi generations project" Wow. Yes. This exactly. Why do I seek a long term partner? A couple of reasons: I make better friends with men. And since I don't find close, platonic relationships to be possible, a relationship would be ideal. With friends in general, I can't respect people whose life choices or opinions I disagree with. This has been a contributing factor to why all my friendships with other women have failed. I am working through this in therapy. But there is also a part of me that thinks, "Why should I change? TO accommodate a corrupt world?". It is starting to look more and more like this is my only choice if I don't want to die of loneliness. I guess now I should whip out some duck lip selfies on Instagram, go get a tramp stamp and fire up a Tindr account. It's all the rage, right? Another reason: I have a great fear of ending up incapacitated in the hospital and having no one to speak for me. Another reason: Seeing so many single and divorced people over 50 terrifies me. They seem so sad and desperate. I just can't end up that way. But the basic reason is loneliness. If everyone else wasn't coupled up, maybe it wouldn't feel so bad. I hate that I am influenced in that way but it's true. PatrickC: All very great points, thank you for taking the time. - My therapist is more concerned with my emotional wellbeing and thinks once I overcome some of my attachment issues, my world view may change. Sigh. As if I hadn't considered that already. - I have not been seeing the same therapist all this time. I usually see one for about 2 years. I also have not gone every week for eight years or anything like that. On and off as needed. The kind of therapy I do goes deep, is somatic, as well as mentally and emotionally exhausting. Can't do this every week. - I feel tears well up when you describe growing cold towards a partner who does not have sex with you. Yes, this is a common biological trait of men that I just cannot accept. I just can't. Has anyone here heard of Karezza? It is supposed to be an alternative to sex that prevents this from happening from a biological point of view. This eventual "fuck me or fuck you" attitude that is simmering underneath every relationship with a man, just waiting to come out, is a big part of why I have chosen to go my own way. I understand these impulses from a biological point of view, but I am not an ape or a caveman. Are we seriously unable to control ourselves in 2015? - In case any one is wondering, no, I have no sexual trauma in my history. I am so lonely that it hurts. So much. It seems like such an easy solution: go and create your own family! It would be such a selfish thing for me to do. I would never want anyone to have my life. And besides, who knows if there will even be clean water to drink on this planet in 30 years? I don't mean to be so depressing but this is where I am at. The people here are much more intelligent and insightful that almost anywhere else online. Thank you. PS: Anyone going to take Mike up on the offer? I considered it seriously but I am just not ready. I think I would just cry for the whole call!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry for the pain of anyone else who has chosen this lifestyle as well. It is not something one does for fun.

A sadistic bully. Stef credits this kind of "parenting" with society's propensity to shirk responsibility or accountability for anything at all costs. Early childhood conditioning.

If he didn't have a sticker on the mailbox, that is his fault and he is placing his anger over that on you. Not fair.

Thank you for replying. I am new here and failed to introduce myself... I was worried no one would reply. Your reply got cut off at "Steph's problem is..". I am curious about the rest. It is really comforting to know there are other people like myself out there. Sad and comforting. Friendships.. yes... but I have yet to find any respectable women to remain friends with for long. Every woman I have met criticizes my decision to defoo and tell me I should forgive my chain smoking welfare mother who unapologetically ruined my childhood and consequently most of my adult life.. lol. "Forgive". I have enjoyed some male friendships but have learned the hard way that these do not work out when you are a single, attractive woman. They just don't. Ever. If I meet an asexual MGTOW man that would be ideal but... yeah. Either they develop feelings for you or they get a new SO who will hate you (I understand this, I would not want my SO being great friends with an attractive, intelligent single woman who had way more confidence and insight than I did, either. There is something to be said for humility but this is sadly the truth. I suppose if the men are choosing these women, they are not so sound of mind and morals either.) Interesting how you actively have to work to suppress your biology. That must be infuriating. I have observed that sex is one of the few remaining ways that disconnected people who feel dead inside try to feel alive again. And get a sad substitute for the the nurturing they did not receive. This is highly unappealing to me... fucking a man baby. The women of course do it for hypergamous reasons that they are unaware of. Women do not really enjoy sex. For them it's a tool to get babies or resources. But they can convince themselves to happily endure it for a period of time as all men discover once they get married. Our society is sex addicted. I feel like a martian on this backwards planet. PS: I would not raise children peacefully. I would want to and know better but I babysat a four year old last weekend and was shocked by how impatient and annoyed I was. I was triggered so much. Never again.

What your family did to you and the way they are responding to you now is COMPLETELY unacceptable, evil, cruel and messed up! Neglect is a really hard thing to pin down when you suffer the effects in adulthood because its not like you have specific memories to draw upon. It's more like a haze, a fog of confusion. Treating children like houseplants ("well! here's your food and water!") is still pretty acceptable these days. Children need emotional and social food the same way they need bread and butter and if they are starved of it, they suffer. It's just in ways that are less obvious at first. Really sorry for what you went through. I have been there as well. I hope you have sought therapy.

Stefan's recent video the rebuttal to marriage and mgtow YouTube comments has got me feeling pretty down. He says that as much as you enjoy living, you should want to pass that on to someone else. But my life has been 90% suffering. I wouldn't want to inflict that on anybody. I have really bad genes. My mother was the last of 12 children. There is a lot of mental illness and suicide in her family and my mother was not exempt from any of that, having tried to kill herself multiple times. Her mother kept pumping out kids with her father despite the fact that he was an alcoholic who was never home and just roamed drunkenly around town. My mothers mother worked full time as a nurse. The children raised themselves. It was like Lord of the Flies. I hate my grandmother for the legacy she created and the selfish way she acted, having all those kids that no one took care of. This is not a popular sentiment with so many people admiring how hard she worked to provide for...the 12 children she had with a drunk and neglected. Please. My mother met my father when she was 17. He was 50. They got married after knowing each other for 6 months and divorced after the same length of time. I was born after that. And then she had my brother and sister with two different other guys, randoms who didn't stick around. I feel like I have done my time raising children. I was an obligatory co parent from 6 years old. It was hard work. My childhood was spent helping around the house, catering to screaming kids, being exhausted, going to school, not fitting in and not having a father. My mother was a narcissist so there was that too. I took a lot of abuse from her on top of everything. I have long defooed from my dysfunctional family. I have no idea if they are dead or alive and I never care to know. I moved countries, changed my name and have spent the last eight years in therapy. I am in my mid thirties now and I just want peace and quiet. What little dating life I have had has been before therapy which, as you can understand, was horribly dramatic. I am damaged goods maybe... but not really. No tattoos or piercings, no stds or abortions, educated, speak two languages, have a retirement fund and a secure, well paying job that I love. The only genes that have benefited me have been my good looks and an easily maintained figure. Sometimes a curse, though. It depends. I am not interested in men, marriage or children. I have zero sex drive. But I do not want to end up alone, like Stef described. I am already quite alone. I can't imagine 60 more years of this. And no, I could never be a lesbian. I considered it. I get where the mgtows are coming from. Could I find a relationship with a man who did not want sex from me and I didn't want resources from him? Would that work out? That seems to go against nature but I feel like it's my only option here. Thoughts?