Andrew31

I don't know, by posting in Stef's forum? People around me prove what can be achieved easily by the man with the right mind(for witch he hasn't had to work), even half of it would be very hard for other person without such a mind. I'm talking about 3-4 times different salary in the same sector(programmers).

Yes we all like people of virtue, but blood and money goes to blood and money. She can be a person of highest virtue, but if she's not good for me reproducing and feeding my offspring, she'll only get me as a friend.

I was once so full of hope to achieve these things Stef talks about, but in reality it's sometimes difficult to get it all. For a woman to be cute, virgin and to like me, off course there'll be a catch(the low IQ for example). If she could connect well with other people she'd be married or something. If she had high IQ she'd climb socially(can't do while staying virgin) most likely. So I'm more talking about tradeoffs.

About that work ethic thing, our dad always had work before pleasure attitude and always tried to keep us under load to do things - me and my brother. He always said something witch would translate - work for no reason but don't sit for no reason. I know there are other factors, but both me and my brother have lost respect for him and he is very lazy and unmotivated and I'm trying to find the rock bottom lowest amount of effort that would allow me to make enough money. I'm 26, never had a girlfriend and I'm failing to see what's the point to work hard.

Yes but I'm worried that after being raised with care and attention, when the kids grow up, their opportunities will be much more limited if their IQ's aren't good and they'll just sit at home and be lazy. Will it take several generations marrying smart women to raise their IQ again?

I wonder how viable it is as a reproductive strategy, to marry a woman of less IQ. Today's women with higher IQ appear to want to get highly educated, "realize their potential" and not be too excited about taking care of children. They would also be less interested in "just a good man", e.g. if you can have a virgin cutie(trough less intelligent) interested in you, the higher intelligence woman interested in you would be 30+ years old, with a bunch of life problems, deceased with god knows what rots from the horde of previous man. But will mother with lower IQ kinda doom my direct descendants to an IQ cap in this world where being of high ability is more essential then ever? Yes there are other factors then genetics(Probably one mother will give them more security, the other one be more of a challenge in conversations).

Interesting story. Apparently women want a winner, no matter in what. You seem more in the open minded camp. I'm in the more patriarchal/hypergamous camp. The thought of meeting a nice woman, we are friends, lovers everything is great, just the tiny little detail that she's at the end of her fertility and can't have children angers me quite a lot. I want to give my best(in carrier) and want a brand new nice looking woman. I said "I'd be ok with a woman around 4-5 if she likes me, without the need for her to be very philosophical and intelligent.", and I met a woman kinda like that the day before yesterday. I was attracted when on a beer, but I told her if we get together I'll eventually want to upgrade her for younger, better looking. I'm leaving finding a girlfriend aside for a while. I'll be temporary mgtow till I begin making enough money to live more freely and for the moment, and enjoy outside activities. May be that would be better time to look for a woman.

I want the flexibility to have additional children later in case we begin to have more money. But at least 2 in worst case.

I'm sorry for what you've been trough, when I'm sitting here complaining for lost opportunities of about 5 years. Some people like you and Stef had that moment when they met the person and and from the first moments they had little doubt they've got themselves a good partner and have good time from the beginning. But I'm trying to find a balance between how we'd be fit together and how long it will take me to meet her. Also, finding a personality jewel among 30+ woman, logically should be much easier, then young women. Also let's say there are much more philosophical man then philosophical women. And there are much more women liking going for coffee and experiencing cool things then man. So the latter woman is what in a way fits a philosophical man. So I'd have to be quite lucky to be like you and Stef, specially when I'm 25 and wish for woman around 20. I really want a relationship with young woman with similar sexual experience (near 0) with witch to be able to have a lot of children for the highest period of time possible.

Thank you for your interest in my ass. In Nathaniel Brandon sense, I'd rate my self esteem pretty high (9/10). In dating market value, it's empirically proven I'm tough to sell. If women are shallow and don't give me a chance, I won't be like them. I'll give chances(initiate talk) to 3's I guess.

Before going to dance classes I considered myself 7-8, now may be 6-7. I'd be ok with a woman around 4-5 if she likes me, without the need for her to be very philosophical and intelligent. I've send about 10 messages in a dating site yesterday, haven't had a response so far.

dsayers, what you say brings some bitterness and frustration in me. I've waited 5 years for such a thing, wished for it, now should I try to settle for less or wait more till it happens? I'm really interested, how old are you, what job you have, 1 to 10 how attractive are you and she? Have you had girls before? I'll be thankful for whatever you can tell me in whatever way you'd be comfortable. I just can't imagine a woman would be that much in to philosophy and talking with me. At least not a woman that would like me. I imagine that the man has his philosophy and other uniteresting stuff to her. She has her going to coffees with friends, living in the moment, and shallow stuff.

Nicely said. My facebook is quite a mess and I feel inadequate with such social media sites. Also I'm in eastern Europe, we don't have these anonymous chats. I'm quite impatient with friends and I can't stand talking ordinary stuff. I'm also a bit narcissistic with my brother and don't have patience to talk about gaming and his interests. I feel I need a "friend" with witch our souls and characters in a way naturally add to each other and we are intimate like you can't with any friend. With witch to share household and help each other sexually. And when I look at her to think what a great mother she'll be to our kids. I feel I don't have patience to being a friend with a girl for a long time.

I thought you may be kinda interested in an update. I went to a bunch of dance classes(sum of 5 different groups salsa and swing). Generally they were 50:50 ratio. In a certain club the women were almost all(~30) young and hot. I'd go out with any of them, except a few old ones and one fat. It's quite a contrast how they dance with you, touch you, smile at you and when the class is over they turn to the dressing and it's like they avoid contact with the guys. I asked girls out. I wasn't a creep, but wasn't a player also. Just honesty, straight forwardness and patience. Mostly rejection, girls playing games and felt at times quite down in the bus on my way home. I was specially disgusted by one "social dynamics fox", with witch I talked a few times in the bus. I had one going for coffee with a bit older and meaty woman. At the time I didn't take her seriously, but that "date" is now giving me hope that working woman of some virtue sometimes would consider it luck to find a man with a car, apartment and a decent income who wont cheat easily. For now I won't look for virtue within society's beauty standards. I'm going back to dating sites, I'll look for a woman who'd be my equal in usefulness and with whom I kinda enjoy spending time.

Offcourse Will, I was thinking of going to therapy, becoming as healthy as I can get and then aim for healthy. When I have more money, I think I'll get a car and probably go to dancing classes or Spanish lessons.