l33tson

Hi Accutron, I have a pretty strong background in physiology (am finishing my degree in a few weeks) and starting medicine next year so maybe I can give a little more insight on that perspective. The electrical signalling you are referring to is that between nerve cells and their target cells right? That's the inference I get from synapse. It's true that you won't have a fully developed neural system (or any development at all actually) at conception, however the basic premise of cell signalling remains, largely, K+ out, Na+ in. This happens on a cellular level, even without the presence of specialized nerve cells. This hyper polarization is required for most (any) cell to function and as such the brain, at any stage of development cannot be just a lump of cells. It is not as though suddenly it turns on and the ability to signal jumps into action. It is a slow process of neural development which eventually leads to what you see as a neural impulse today.

You might be right. Let me try and explain. To say that abortion is ok up to x months from birth is obviously pretty arbitrary. It has no basis other than what that society believes is or isn't human life / moral. I'd be of the opinion however that the human life MUST begin when the genome is formed, because all things held equal, the human development would continue, just as we continue to develop to the minute we die. To me this seems the least arbitrary way of thinking. However, again, I'll state that I'm more in this for self knowledge and just trying to find a reasonable position to take. I'd love to hear a counter argument.

I agree that it is likely I identify more with the teenager due to their developed "personhood" but isn't it dangerous to consider personal intuition when it could easily be biased by conditioning (parents, friends, ect..). I'll give you an example. 2 years ago I was voting far left due to their intentions to assist the poor through wealth distribution which at the time I thought intuitively was a good idea. At face value, it seems reasonable to take from the rich and give to the poor however obviously upon further analysis and self development I've managed to change my view (thanks Stef and the team). The issue is that my intuition was pointing the wrong way at that particular point in time so whats to say it isn't pointing the wrong way now with regard to abortion? I do hope I'm not comparing apples to pears and all of this follows some comprehensible structure.

J.D: I understand that everyone has autonomy but I thought that the whole basis of the non-aggression principle was that you have autonomy to the point where it doesn't impose on another individuals autonomy. Otherwise you are an aggressor, and as such wouldn't it be fairer to say that the autonomy to not procreate is certainly moral, but the autonomy to decide whether the embryo be aborted is questionable? I'm not saying I have the answers, I'm just giving an opposing view I have heard which I think to me sounds more consistent. I'd love to hear your thoughts though. Agalloch: I think we might be on the same page. In answer to your question, I think from a logical point of view it's hard to justify where the human life begins so any arbitrary decision is kind of meaningless. Therefore you would have to fall back to conception right? So, at any point from conception it would follow that you are ending a human life so all loss of life is to be treated with equal tragedy. . . But then it comes into question when you consider a medical abortion, or the consequences of rape, abortion of massively disabled individuals... I don't know.... Hence the questions. jpahmad: I think I'd feel worse for the 18yo but I don't know why and it is not consistent with what I wrote above.

So, the Australian Sex Party has just come out and started a hashtag about shouting your abortion with then intention I think to remove some of the stigma associated with it. It has spurred up a little bit of unease within me as I don't really know where I stand on abortion as a whole. I've heard the position of Stefan and I really appreciate the viewpoints he puts forward however there are some circumstances where I still struggle to see things in the logical way that he and I am sure, a number of other people on this forum do. Please help me in my pursuit of self knowledge and maybe give your opinions on the matter and what you think about the stigma of abortion. Thank you so much. ----- Edit ----- Also, apologies if this topic has already been covered or I am in the wrong area of the forum.