Kaz Lokuciewski

Dude. The video suggests that they had a functioning peaceful Anarchy made up of 100,000 people. It worked. How they hell did you get the above from that video and the focus on the natives before Columbus?

My rule is..help those who help themselves. Few inheritances are intended for a person to get a bad habit. Think they are cleverer than they are. It's to subsidize the theft that a mortgage is and provide opportunity for self investment. If you give a 22 year old who lacks ambition $100,000 you CAN set them up to miss out on drive and learning that would have earned them so much more, both emotionally AND in income. With my kids I expect them to be in a career and building a family...then, when they need the 3 bed house..they can have 10% and pay 1% interest on the 90% to the trust..so that their kids can also have a cheap mortgage and so on.

I have two views on this. 1. Other than the rape of natural resources, a currency is predominately pegged to the at the minimum hourly wage. If the minimum wage / hour becomes $20 instead of $10 / hour and the rest of the market remains the same. The dollar will simply inflate by 100%. It will however give a temporary reprieve to low earners who reap the benefits BEFORE inflation, which is the opposite to what happens. When one state does it this is super confusing. A cafe can be 10 yards from a labor intensive business with half the labor cost. I'm not sure if California is really looking out for the low wage worker or simply remove the low skill labour population from their area as such businesses leave. The supermarkets are going to stay and that way local government no longer has to pay for the Walmart heirs extravagances. I think it's only really an option for states that do not have a big low skill factory base, but do have high property prices. If you really want to create a living wage, you need to make minimum wage relative to average rent prices and give people the right to buy their homes from scrounging landlords after a given time so long as they pay their rent, and splitting the capital gain.

This is mostly circular now with people making the same point and stating that they have not been responded to while my own responses seem to be getting moderated so I decided not to let this topic mull over in peoples own minds. However..I just saw this great young Turks video. I wonder what system Native America used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBUEfdPDOQ

I'm saying there's not way round corruption in ANY system and some magical parenting won't do it either. In the mean time..may as well steer things the the right direction..you not supporting an accountable transparent candidate less forceful candidate right now is a vote for scum who will force you further. I admire your ideals....and it's nice that you believe that loving parents can train their children to have no aggression or desire to cheat to get ahead...and that hose cheated will not feel compelled to resort to violence to claim back the fruits of their labour and instead peasfully find new piece of land to live on free from the dangers of roving bands. It may be that you're right and that is possible..there are plenty of people who have gone off to live in the wilde and pay no taxes, trade goods. If that is the life you'd truly prefer then the option is there. In the mean time..in this system. Why help make it worse? I'm not saying don't vote. I'm saying ask for your consumer rights and perhaps a few force reductions. If you don't get any (95% likely)...then don't vote with your conscience intact. What your're going now is not topping up the oil in the car you use every day because one day you hope to have an aeroplane that you have no way of getting and don't even know how to fly. non-sensicle. Nice projection there dude. Anyone can read back though your and my observations. Regardless of view...all I've done is use analogies and experiences to describe what I consider likely outcomes. You keep repeating that a perfect race will exist when people don't spank their kids.

I don not believe we can be taught to reason and be rational all the time and the moment it does not, if one persons livelihood is at stake, for example stop polluting the river upstream from me, that the result would be war eventually unless a 'force' consensus is reached. Hell. I can't even get apparently enlightened people to accept the idea that appointing reps to manage communal assets should require a competitive system of transparency and accountability rather than fame and marketing. From my experience, those who have traumatic upbringing often end up with the resolve to challenge their base instincts of dumb pride and hold high moral ideals. Those who had 'The perfect' upbringing turning out less so. That may be counter intuitive to some. But to me, it takes resolve to challenge your animal instincts and you're not going to be able to nurture them away,

No. New discussion. I like the way you described 'perfect' which hits the nail on the head. I do not believe that there is a 'perfect' but ensuring that the collective has the right to comparable transparent obligations offered by those seeking the roles will always make the system more perfect.

Your ruled dude. And, if there is someone who stand who wishes for you to self rules by consensus rather than coercion..at the moment you're not even bothering to check so..nose spite face. We've gone full circle now.

No..because your policies (contractually obligated ones) would be reductive...to expand decentralisation of law and military accountability...you're going to have to be quite clever here because you are going to have to sell the idea of greater decentralization to people. You may like to be strategic and start moderate. You can be honest and say..look, I'm an anarchist...but I think we can all agree that xyz are leading us into WW3. It's not using force because you are seeking a consensus on the removal of existing layers of force. Not that I'm an anarchist and would therefore agree with any of it...but if I were, and intending to implement it...I see it as the only way. This thread on 'Don't vote stupid if you don't want to be ruled by the corrupt' has gone to parenting experiences and how to move toward anarchy from within an oligarchy posing as a democracy.

You should stand. If your policies are clear..No invasions without referendum, I forgo my write to call such a deed. Should and enough of you stand then that's what will happen. If you don't someone will stand saying they respect the bountries of others then invent a reason to invade for war money. You might not vote for them but the stupid 90% will and they will overpower your 10% at a later date anyway.

We've just been though this. Stephs history show is almost continuously covering these cycles and unavoidable scenarios. Evendence wise ALL systems end up corrupting and always will until relative Oligarchs send their disillusioned followers or oppressing mercenaries to challenge another Oligarch, just smaller ones at war with each other until they combine. I'm not going to write the history of mankind out for you. Regarding the idea of voters requiring competing contractual obligations of authority candidates to offset the tendency for corruption and make the competition one of maximum transparency and implementation of popular policy for the least money, instead of one of maximum PR popularity and ideology quotes that can not be attributed to an inaction later ...not been tried yet, but seems pretty stupid to insist on voting for an unaccountable liar in a faux democracy, or in an Anarchic group, just because you didn't like the tone of the chap to pointed out the folly in a chat site.

D is persuading you with security & opportunity.

Indeed. So long as you have access to food, shelter, water..you can be manipulated into working to the limit of your diminishing expectations for less. That's why secret societies exist and people who do not demand consumer rights in the countries that the establishment are presently invested will continue to tow the line for an ever diminishing piece of the pie. There piece of paper would have worked had the put in a clause that criminalized even trying to break it and by an automatically created public militia (money was supposed to be state issued backed by gold). One of my contractual obligations was 'No one above the law' which allows the public to call a Trial on both the assumed criminal and those who should have called a trial in the first place. Had I not proposed that bill I would have forfeit my position. The whole idea of consumer rights is pretty simple and to keep it simple I steered clear of what the contractual obligations should be..only that their should be some and they can only be personal conduct ones or proposing and supporting bills, not actually passing any bills. Every time a candidate says 'I will make this change (that required a bill to pass) that 600 strangers with vested interests must agree with me on' then they are a liar who thinks you're a fool. We have contracts and money back guarantees in every trade. Business can not function without it. Putting the initial (non emergency..unforeseeable) political services into a contract is a pretty obvious starting point. You are assuming that the anarchists have any information or any right to access it? The kids just start getting ill and the plant sells them medicine. Double whammy. You are assuming that the anarchists have any information or any right to access it? The kids just start getting ill and the plant sells them medicine. Double whammy. Covered already dude. Going circular. You have to differentiate the initiation of violence, meeting it with violence and teaching in that instance that there are better ways. To open someones mind to an alternative method you have to sometimes open their mind to how it feels to be on the other side of their chosen method. You see this a lot with charity video's of starving children. You need them to identify. They show the parents anguish for their starving children. In the spanking model it's very important that spanking is used to show that violence only biggets violence. The evidence is in for me. To my mind the unspanked Alpha boys boys get experimental at 18 and the Beta ones get trodden on at school. (UK school...my wife said Bullying was not a thing in Morocco (spanking bad kids very much was). You are suggesting that a thug who takes what they want from pacifists is more likely to change tactic from repeated lectures than they get hit back?

It does if someone else has organized into a bigger pack and want what you have,

Oh I agree. Unaccountable Oligarchy is not working. If the individuals responsible had their assets reduced to zero paying reparations..this would not happen. The problem is when the business person promotes the person looking over them and neither have traceable wealth or an administrator willing to deliver justice. Shareholder (pension funds) bear the brunt of the cost, and the criminals pocket the money they made while skimping on safety. Our crazy system I suspect this would be even worse under an Anarchy in which people appoint lying crooks though. Again I revert to the bit where I currently have only one person who seems to agree that getting accountable contracts from applicants for positions of responsibility, is a necessity...and how we appoint right now is evidence of how irresponsible we are.

I think most people seek monetary wealth to provide security to their families. Wealth grows. In my area a starter home is £300k. At a sensible interest rate that's about £1000 / month interest only AKA about 75% of the median take home. This leaves no slack and you need to put something aside for your pensions, you kids education, their deposit..how much? Is £500k enough to have a good retirement? We have a situation where both parents (no inherited wealth) working on median wage are required to have a comfortable life (child free) that may fund an ok retirement. The kids in Nursery are £1000 / month. Most try to stagger 3.5 years to have one in school. If you have the kids...MOST must step up to double median wage..this means you have to become money orientated in your work. You have now sold your sole. The people around you tend to be in the same situation and you start socializing...you always end up in the pub and it becomes round buying unless you insist on not partaking. So you put 20 in the kitty and get 2 drinks while a few others neck six and most have three, but you can afford it, your all mates..but three of you have £300k inheritance saving them £1800/month. They ask you if you would like to go on holiday with them. You don't know about the £1800/month inheritance saving and assume they are saving up the £3000 cost over the year.. My mission here is to say that many couples on £50k each are usually just people who are trying to raise a family..have ok cars, houses with a spare room for their parents and enough garden to host a birthday. They go on a nice holiday once a year and the rest is stacked up for their kids to have half a chance and buying the house they live in but even they could not buy at today's prices on their salary. There are rich people with 'Only money' but they are few and far between, mostly they are in parliament banks and arms trade.

Nothing cartoonish about access to water from a river and upstream contamination. Water is life. I know. But as I play out an anarchic development that can suppress the expansion of roving bands stealing raping and raiding, I find the situation stuck with delegating management and a reliable militia that will simply expand into a government. And a massive corrupt one at that if you elect any old liar who somehow has laid claim to most of the land and funds the militia from it. Any rules that are not enforced...cease to be rules. Enforcement requires fair evidence and justice or you you decent into chaos. These need rules and a consensus. Once that consensus is reached..someone needs document it and administer it ...boom, you have the start of a government. Now, across the river a new community moves in..it can only go two ways, you adopts fair justice under a consensus or...at some point an accident will lead to a war (it always has)

? I think you are living in a bit of a bubble regarding not removing aggression with aggression. Yes, thanks to our democracy creating common law and police to enforce it, so long as you are not in mortal danger, the initiator of violence will be worse off if you just press charges. The initiator will be more worried about Jail and a fine. If you are in mortal danger, you will either meet aggression with aggression..or die. In an anarchy perhaps simply have to leave you homestead and make a new one assuming you survive the winter..or perhaps form a band to take it back. Your 2-4 year old is not worried about Jail or a fine. I think one problem is people don't do TV showed with Alpha kids behavior being resolved much more quickly and that there is no loss of trust or creation of the idea that you kick ass to get what you want. I've seen both 1st hand.

Your missing the point. You are reacting to the intent of the child, they may be challenging you, they may also be damaging anyone's property or attacking another child who is not defending themselves in kind. Regarding the danger and the Alpha child is that they have not learned to take pride in having power and only using it for good by the time they are 13+. You meet might with might and take pride in using your might to ensure that might is never used to force will on others. You meet their might..with might. Just the same as you might were you to find a vandal in your home or attacking your females for challenging them. The risks are much lower, but the learning is the same. If you have never heard a 1st hand story of a kid who has been victimized by a bully and then one day wacks them one and it all stops then I think you are unusual. The bully is just someone who seeks to dominate another and the bullied..to the bully..is simply someone who came off worse in the exchange. 2-4 year old Alpha kids are bullies and all your lives are so much more fulfilling when they learn that they can't bully you. I've seen many 2-4 your olds bully their parents in such a way that I conclude that the child will have taken that as a win, negotiating with someone who is not even capable of that level of thought yet. 3 years of mutually respectful play wasted..because of an ideology formed from a extreme negative response to a negative experience.

Reason is the only way they will be allowed to get what they want. That is the essential lesson When they try to use force hurt us or destroy..they are quickly shown that we also have that power BUT..then stop and say..now...are you ready to use reason. You need to understand the mindset of someone trying to steer their Alpha dominated child as efficiently as possible to be non destructive to other children, your homes etc. They have far more rage and pride that other children...you have to make aggression an adjunct to getting what they want. That means punishment and you can not do that without showing that you have the capacity too..but control it., showing them that their might is NOT the mightiest..and then, knowing that they can see that you choice to use reason, even though you have evidenced that when you have the superior capability for violence. As with anyone with Alpha children, you then have to play hard. No point setting a positive message of using your might to defend the liberty of others, rather than force your unjust will..when you do not then present admiral, happy fun loving, involved qualities. You need them to want to replicate you..and they won't do that if they think you're boring or neglectful. These lessons are short lived. Yes, the first time you spank..the first time you spank it may be twice on the first day. The next time you may..after lots of attempted reasoning say..that's enough..if you don't calm down / stop fighting me etc I'm going to spank your bottom..and they don't. And then that's pretty much it. Three spanks in 2 days and your about 8 quality hours a week better off for about for two years and then..the sky's the limit. I know an alpha 11 year old who is still wasting 2 hours a day challenging her parents, arguing that black is white. If your children get to admire any action heroes they will learn this anyway...but not your 2-4 year old. As I said, we're pretty much past all that now my kids are older, but I think we had a far more happy home with the occasional short lived paddy for 3 years compared to that of my peers who can not even get their kids to put their shoes on on request. There may also be well trained Alpha character at school who do not tolerate bullying of others and are themselves immune. Those characters will hopefully provide the role model to untrained Alpha characters who start school being a menace. I would accept that there is an element of broken in, but where we disagree is that while you define that as for state rule, I see it as to not be own worst enemy, unhappy and menace to others.

Yes. The one I wanted to discuss was about changing taxation to one of 25% income and 1% wealth..across the board. But replied with the 'Is contractual accountable obligations from appointed leaders required in any form of society' Obviously that would result in a SMART-voter.org plug but if you looked at my campaign my first political commitment was to make SMART-voter.org mandatory..without the brad, killing my investment. (intentional loss) The other one was the case for spanking.

True..I had not really thought Anarchy as a viable form social system through that far. I've agreed with many of Stephs less popular conclusions and assued there were solutions I had not yet considered. Three years ago I came to the conclusion that all systems result in Oligarchy or violent gangs without some form of non-violent accountability of those attributed authority...so the question served two purposes. To find out what the peaceful solutions to management and sharing of resources would be. To find out how the wrong people do not gradually take control though secret societies and deception anyway, for example by not educating on money planting a trusted expert then introducing a debt based currency. I have not been presented with solutions to the basics AND have found that suggesting that it is idiotic to grant authority to someone who refuses to provide any assurances of attempted action, is met with objection without reason? Which would mean that, even were I to be provided with viable solutions to the basic problems, the parents of peasfully parented babies will continue to appoint coercive people into positions of authority. I thought Anarchists might be more likely to be pen minded to the idea that is necessary to design in a water tight system of accountability and transparancy from those you appoint into responcibility.

There seem to be a lot of people on here who were brutalized as children rather than spanked to shock them out of an irrational destructive rage at the end of an unsuccessful reasoning. It is sad that happened to you. I suspect that you can do as much damage by 'informing rationally' children constantly of reasons why they should not to something that might pose a risk...and that child grows to ignore everything in an effort to learn something independently for themselves. If you have 2 Alpha kids as I do, you will soon discover that they NEED to try everything, and get very angry (when they are 3) when you need to say no or postpone of their experiments. For the sake of their protection or your need to redecorate at 8pm. I don't count the spanking in a book but I would guess my 9 year old daughter and 6 year old son have been spanked at most 15 times for my daughter (Who is hyper creative and an authority challenger and my son perhaps 6 times he is the Alpha boy at school and while he did challenge authority at first, he tends to remember ideologies (and constantly asks me questions about morality, life death etc). over 70% of spanking would have been between the ages of 2 and 4. They're trained now that reason is the only way now and know and that rage has swift unpleasant consequences. Some homes will never benefit from spanking. Parents who get angry and are actually venting should never spank. Children who are scholarly do not have the biological deep rooted basic instinct to just taking what you want and hurting any who challenge you. But if you do have kids with that basic instinct. In my experience, spanking is the most efficient solution. Do my kids in revenge? Sure. But all the Alpha kids do and I'd say these days 2 in 3 parents say they do not hit. Though I do think hitting is wrong, corporal punishment should take a non combative form and be reserved for destructive violent behavior. Force met with force. Evidencing in that moment that you, as the parent, at all other time have the capacity for force but CHOOSE not to use the power you possess when they stop fair reason. You can do it the long way. I know unhealthy unkempt stressed people who are still doing it with their 10 year old Alpha kids. I feel bad for the kids, who are literally looking for the firm line in the sand and no-one will give it to them. Once they find the line and know where it is...they can focus on something else. How this entered the topic I guess is that my question was loaded. My point is that no mater your authority structure, if those in power have no accountability (bureaucratic systems, withholding evidence, control of the big stick, its going to fail. Since only 1 person replying appear to have considered that you should not empower a stranger without getting contractual obligations might be a bit stupid..and we should stop doing that. Some people seem to be angry with this observation. If you are unable to be open minded and calm with such an obvious, non personal observation...Then your not ready for an anarchy that an be anything but barbaric. The other vested interest is the Peaceful Parenting bit, from which people think a functioning Anarchy can succeed. In Stephs own words. You can't eliminate 10,000 years of evolution instincts in 1 generation and, assuming you will not get escalating violence in an Anarchy filled with peacefully parented children, you would have to do it in 1, because the not so peaceful kids will do the evolving. If you stop voting for them when they lie...perhaps they wont.

How old is he. My kids don't get there money from the trust until they're 25 in the paper, and even then under the supervision of trusted others who see they are not using it to spend on luxuries outside their pay grade.

And with that ultimatum you would will take no effort to place accountability on corruption on those you authorize regardless to act on your behalf regardless of which form of society. I'm more worried about living in a society of people where people stubbornly refuse to reason get to make decisions that impact negatively on everyone else with there being no humane organized form of recourse. A good example would be that you set up a manufacturing plant up stream of a community and used it for your toilet waste. You might be insulted by the tone that the person down steam took when they came up and TOLD you that you had to stop, right or wrong. Closed your mind to the obvious injustice...the other community may leave...but since they were there first and are bigger and stronger they will force the issue and you would be required to adjust your behavior by force. The reason I say this is that,,right now,,most of the people reading this post are either not voting or voting from someone who you have not even asked if they are siting to be accountable to supporting ANYTHING they way, If they were accountable to what you agree with them, not thought government rules that have been corrupted, but Anarchic where you have insisted on upfront accountability outside government rules (Anarchic). You are effectivly up river from your kids (along with me) and I'm the oly one say,,dudes...lets big a hole and compost our waste...and your saying...those people down steam, whose water (liberty) we are poisoning by out lack of effort. how dare they tell me what to do. If not making simple steps to clean your children's liberty supply now is justifiable in your mind because at some time in the future you want there to be another stream..then we have to agree. And putting it into the two communities filled with love scenario. Your choice in this scenario was not the peaceful one. My actions are that of being up river, seeing another community below, thinking about the result of our actions and telling our community that we should not dump our waste in the river and compost well away from there. You are there with me in that analogy community right now, and because I said it and my idea, your making a speech about how we must not let their need impact ours. If the community follow me..we avert a war. If someone is raping do you calmly reason with them until they're finished? This is silly I don't even get the analogy. It's like we never spoke and you keep reverting to some memory you have of unjust violence for nothing. I'm going to build for you a viable spanking scenario. I can't remember but it's likely that I have decided to do this with my my kids at some point (when you have the spanking option the kids only challenge you to the edge of reasonable debate. Loosing it and ignoring you is not an option.) The non family getting ready to go breakfast . The child wonders off with their bowl to turn the telly on and you say No you might spill it so please finish at the table. I'll be careful. Sorry, you normally spill your food. when you can usually can eat without making a mess at the table then we can think about it. (you go back to making the tea and your child has moved to the couch) What did I say. But I want to, I'll be careful. (You can or not decide to let them and if they spill that process with start again tomorrow or they are careful and they become TV breakfast kids. which I think over stimulates them before school learning pace and makes them unable to focus.) No, get back to the chair. No. You carry them back to the chair, they throw the bowl and start kicking you. If, at that moment you put them over your knee and spank them..you will never have that situation again and, so long as you are consistent with that level of scenario being spank worthy..you end up with a much less hostile life. If your children are not leaders at school or in their gangs then you will not have this problem and never need to. Both of my children lead their gangs into ever increasing levels of risk or ever increasing amounts of cleaning up for me and my wife. You seem to visualize a child rocking back and fourth in a ball in a corner waiting to the fear to end. The reality is that we will be playing football or lego having fun 10 minutes later and not have that repeat scenario play out every morning until the end of times. I've suspect I've spanked them combined less than 15 times.