Frackin Around

I agree. In my experience, an honest debate is always win-win. Either I strengthen my ability to articulate valid, factual arguments convincingly, or I am exposed to better information and have the opportunity to change my positions accordingly. People who look at arguments as purely win/lose are doing so because they do have something to lose if the truth is known. They are fundamentally only ever arguing about themselves, working backwards from the conclusion that "I'm not guilty and that which shows me as guilty I'm going to smear and heckle and abuse." They are afraid to be exposed as cowards who hide in relativist morality and nihilism, or as supporters and perpetrators of grave evil, often times with their very own hands. These people do not want to change, and it is almost always a waste of time to argue with them.