Dannydugster

How effective have you been in stealing hearts from Jesus? Like what is your record for deconversions? I have friends that are fundamental Christians and I would like to talk them out of their believe. I have talked once with all of them and once with just one who is more patient with me. I haven't gone through all the arguments yet, I am trying to be patient and let them see the truth for themselves. I briefly made the comparison between islam and Christianity but of course it was immediately denied. Could I present a complete historical detail of an alternate religion, a psychological explanation for its origin and perpetuity, and then point out many similarities between the false gods and the one true and living Jehovah? Have you done this before? Did it resonate? I'm definitely going to talk to them I'm just figuring out how best to do it. Should I treat them as if they are incapable of understanding that they are being deceived, and only ask them questions, and draw conclusions only in my mind? Or should I tell them exactly what I think they are doing even though that will make no sense to them? I used to think mockery of god was evil and the people that do it are crazy. I don't think people will listen I they think I am a crazy person. Like if a psychologist were to explain his theory to his client from the start he might be mind blown and not believe him. I think I should treat people as if they are crazy but don't know it, so I can't just mock their religion. At the same time I think religion should be called out for what it is, a crazy batshit assertion. How do I reconcile these two feelings? If religion is a disease, are there people who are beyond recovery, rationally dead. It is very easy to believe because my friend doesn't understand now he will never understand, yet anything that can be taught will take a long time for some and a short time for others, but it will eventually click in a moment for a new learner. Is there a point at which someone is incapable of understanding a given topic? If so, how can you tell when someone is teachable or not? Someone else on the soul winning bus overheard me talking to my friend about people who grow up in isolation not getting a chance, and pulled an insulting theory out of his ass that someone who lived by himself would not know right from wrong and therefore would be incapable of sin. Well that was his second story, his first was that since he had no one around to tell him god would reveal himself to him. The just above barely perceptable smarty pants tone in his voice was unbearable. But I tried Socrates with a head ache and echoed back a snarky "How do YOU know?" With which he handed me the beautiful blossoming syllogism of FAITH, which I could not refuse and slid gracefully away. I feel like calling people out who just want to keep me in line and not discuss it on their bullshit, but I don't want to be an "angry atheist" What are your thoughts?

I had a talk a couple of hours long with my friend. He seems to think he can convince me. He also says that he thinks I am searching for answers and that what I find will be the truth. I've told him that other religions use faith just like he does, but he thinks they are wrong because they can't actually be using "real" faith since they have false gods? He agreed that it is hard to know what religion is right just by faith, but thought it was still fair to those unfortunate souls not born to Christian parents that they should go to hell. When asked about how to find the right religion his favorite thing was to find one that "fills the void". He says that all nonchristians have a void and thay are still searching for something to fill it but he is not searching other religions because he apready knows what he believes. He has a sense of superiority because he "knows" where everything came from. I gave a middle ages hypothetical about retrograde planets and what would he have said about them if he were a scientist but I don't even know how he vaporized that question. He seems utterly convinced and at the same time desperately grabbing more and more bricks for his castle in the sky. Its like he has a levitating mechanism at the core of it but I can't get to it. Is the mechanism faith? What will teach him that willpower does not have a place in any discussion including the "sacred"? Am I to have an epistemological lecture with him? If so how?

I have a few questions at the end but I suppose I am mostly making this post to vent online instead of at my friends. It just pisses me off that people set up this mind paralyzing doublethink death trap to control other people. I thought it would be easier. I talked to three of my fundie friends yesterday about god, this was at the end of our churches youth conference, at one of the largest and oldest fundamental churches in America. First of all I was surprised by how much they were surprised and second I was surprised how they thought the word "faith" was an answer after they admitted they had no evidence. They would say I just had to have faith. Why? I would ask, You have to have faith," they would repeat. Why? It comes down to faith, they said. "Muslims say the exact same thing, how do they know that they are wrong and you are right?" "They have to have faith," they would say, which would make me so damn frustrated My judgmental friend asked me if I was afraid of death, of course I said yes, and he said that was because I am afraid of hell. So I asked him if he was afraid of death and he said no. I asked him if someone pulled a knife on him if he would run, he said yes. I said he's afraid of death he said no he wants to stay alive to help me because he doesn't want me to go to hell. He also asked me if I knew where the world came from and life and all that and I said no but we can and have investigated those questions scientifically. He said he knew exactly how everything got here because god did it, and some how he expected that to impress me? It was so fucking pathetically silly, and I felt like saying that, thank god I didn't. Statements of total madness that he made like these just blew my mind! I don't understand why it is considered so outside the norm to doubt something that you can't even fucking see! I know it is better if I have patience when talking to them because calling them out could just alienate them, and also it took me years to even recognize my doubts for what they were and then a year to even allow myself to listen to Stef's podcasts on religion, but it is so hard to have patience with them, I think I was more confrontational than I needed to be, especially with the quiet one who admitted he had no evidence and it was to teach people something that had no evidence he said he would still believe it and it seemed like he was being sarcastic because he was smiling the whole time he repeated that even though he had no reason to he was still going to believe it. After he admitted he had no evidence it felt like I was talking to a statue because he wouldn't budge. I suppose it is irrational to expect what took years for me to happen immediately which is why I'm not mad at him and I'm posting this instead. My judgmental friend accused me of not having enough faith and said that I should read at least one book of the Bible for every “evolution” book I read. He said I was doubting because I wasn't reading enough of the Bible. I seriously doubt he knows more about the Bible than I do. I'm going to talk to the understanding one on Saturday at “soul-winning”. I know he will want to talk about it again. But I don't know about my judgmental friend, and the quiet one. The judgmental one doesn't like talking about ideas, he only likes trivia and boring small talk and stupid jokes. He and I became friends after talking about becoming pilots a few years ago. Now flying is not as important and ideas are more important. We'll be going to the Oshkosh airshow together but I don't know if he will want to talk about the metaphysical question of deities, he'll be more concerned for my “soul”. Which is strange, because I was saved at an early age, and he believes you can't lose salvation no matter what, but for some reason he is still concerned. One of my friends, who is perhaps the most traditional non “worldly” friend I have, who I have talked to about ancap principles, at first he defended the state on a biblical basis, but after about two hours realized that it is bad for the government to force people to do things. When my judgmental friend was busy condemning me he actually stopped him and said that he thought I was just searching for answers and that's not a bad thing. Should I try to deconvert my friends or just let them believe what they want? Was it a mistake to bring this up to them? I don't regret it but is there some other reason I shouldn't have talked about it? I don't suppose I included much about my attitude towards them but any advice as to the ideal attitude or even the ideal goals to have in these conversations would be much appreciated. I don't even know what else to ask so just go ahead and give any input you want.

Wait actually talk to people about my conversation s with them in my head?

Is having imaginary conversations with real people in your mind normal? Today I thought about talking to someone, next thing I know I had had a full conversation with them in my mind. I realized what I was doing and thought it would be a good thing to ask a psychologist, next thing I had several lines of dialogue running with this constructed shrink inside my head. When I realized that, I laughed and thought about telling my brother with brought me into mental concord with him as well. I have done this sort of thing throughout my life, when I wanted to do something big, like start a club, I would imagine doing it, but never actually do it. This has happened many times over many different things, social situations mostly, but I have had fantasies of getting a certain career or moving somewhere. I'm just curious if this is a common phenomenon and if it is a good or bad thing,something to fight or something to cleave to, or something to question. I'm not sure if this is the right place for such questions, if they are at all relevant to anyone, if I should go somewhere else, or if it is just too ridiculous to even comment on, but I do hope for good feedback, I'm curious to see what you think.