Goldenages

Hi Dad, I guess you are right with your points. Lets break it down to small scale to see the problem: Lets assume you work and deliver me goods such as food, electricity etc. I give you papers with numbers written on them, I can make an infinite quantity, and assure you that, at some point in the future, you can buy goods from me whenever you need some. So you hoard those papers for the time when you retire. Now you knock on my door and want to exchange some of those papers into food. Unfortunately, all I can give you is paper with numbers written on them. regards Andi

Yes, thats exactly what we would expect according to the evolutionary principle. A randomly acquired property, due to some variations in genes, offers advantages to animals without this property. And there is reason to assume that are certain levels of awareness among different species. Obviously I am not smart enough to see the problem here: What is the base to say that our awareness can not be reduced to a common source/explanation? Especially if there is no theory of cognition? Shure. As irrelevant as the method of storing or depict data, be it on paper or hard discs, be it drawings or numbers. Yes. But where is the problem? To expresse "green" I can write the word, or paint a green dot. There are people - I do not know the word in english - whose nerves are wired very special, e.g. if they see a special colour they taste, maybe, the flavour of pepper in their mouth. So a colour triggers a flavour and creates a very unique awareness. So what is the base to say that no theory of cognition can reduce our awareness to physical sources? regards Andi

Hi Richard, like your post and learn a lot. Is there no reason? Forgive me if my analogy is somewhat mechanistic, but: If I shape metal in a certain way and can cut through paper, I do have reason to assume that it has actual sharpness, does it? I only run into troubles if I insist that sharpness is independent from a certain shape. One subclause to AI: IMHO just pimping up processors to ever greater speeds and capacity will not cause awareness or intelligence. All you get is a faster computer. Likewise, even pimping up your car to whatever horsepower will never bring you into space. To make it into space you need different theories than for driving, likewise you need a theory of mind to build awareness. And as far as I know, there is none. I would like to understand that, but actually I do not. I would even say that an aware observer is irrelevant to the function of the universe, but I don´t think thats what you mean. Well, yes, if you differentiate between sharpness and the specific shape of a blade. Or between a hot wire and the light its emitting. regards Andi

No doubt about that. But actions based on awareness resp. not-awareness obviously result in different behaviour. If not, why did evolution select awareness, if the same result could be achieved with non-awareness? If an animal (or a robot) can catch a ball, it needs to predict the path. So it needs knowledge about reality, in this particular case a knowledge we call Newton´s laws. Neither an animal nor a robot has conscious knowledge, its stored in the spinal cord or software or whatever. And it makes a big difference wether one has aware knowledge, fully understanding a universal principle, or act on jerks. regards Andi

We do not know how awareness works, but this does in no way indicates that is has to be a special substrate, or is spiritual, or divine, or magic. We simply do not know how it works, thats all. I mean we do not know what dark matter is, and nobody claims that it is magic. Why should it be the case with awareness? We do know that awareness has something to do with the brain - if somebody looses his leg, he is still aware. If somebody looses his head, he is not. Shure, to explain awareness is a different problem than determinism. Nevertheless, those two are connected: Nothing that is unaware can even articulate the question about free will. And again: Determinists have to explain why there is such a thing like awareness. We know that many animals exist for many thousand years with little or no awareness. We know that our subconscious mind is powerful and knows a lot about reality. We are, e.g., able to throw or catch a ball, so our subconscious mind has perfect knowledge about Newtons laws. So there must be an advantage to be aware, otherwise evolution would never have selected it, would never have allowed to put that much energy in. There must be an advantage to be aware of Newton´s laws, instead of just using them instinctively. In other words, there must be an advantage from determined subconsciousness, from instinctively driven actions to awareness. regards Andi

Not necessarily. The indeterministic quantum substrate can as well be modeled by classical algorithms we normally would call "thinking". All determinists have to explain why there are such things as awareness, consciousness, etc., especially if regards Andi

Interesting: Catholicherald With such friends, who needs enemies? regards Andi

Shure Let alone to define what can be seen as human after so many years. However, as far as I know all findings concerning human family tree were made in Africa, and it was safe knowledge that Africa was the only playground for human evolution. regards Andi

Well, lefties always love to hear theories about how to squander other people´s money regards Andi

Interesting: Europe Birthplace of Mankind not Africa Scientists find regards Andi

Thats obvious. regards Andi

I just take your word. My business model can even be improved, if nobody pays taxes, and everybody can take as much money as he deems necessary. No more brakes, only gas. Alyways enough money in the system, no unemployment. The only requirement is, the money has to come directly from the FED. So we have to get rid of normal banks, but thats no problem, I can hire them all. regards Andi

I just had a great idea, I will start a new business. Taking money directly from the FED is no debt, right? So I start a new business, I can hire any number of employees. My business is to hire people. I just hire them, thats all, they have to do nothing. I take 10.000 dollars from the FED, giving each employee 5000 and keep the rest. Fifty - fifty is a fair share, I think. And there is no reason why this business should be confined within the borders of a country. Think of all the poor in Africa. I hire them, they will be rich, I will be rich, and everybody is happy. Should work if the MMT is correct. regards Andi

Situation for the Eastern European countries is not easy. First, they are still struggling for better economics, which, I would say, most do pretty well. Second, they do not want just to exchange Moscow for Brussels. If there is a sense for freedom in Europe, its not in Germany or France, its in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia or Czech Republik. I still remember when the iron curtain fell, and many of our Hungarian neighbors fled to Austria, cause situation was confuse in the beginning and it was not clear, wether some russian tanks would stop the party. Third, they still have the Russian Bear as neighbor, so they are oriented to the West. So the "West", represented by a more or less Germany-led Brussels, has nothing better to do than do blackmail all those countries with this unspeakable refugees welcome attitude. Fortunately, til now, they resist. Backed up by the latest elections in Czech Republic and Austria. regards Andi

Thank you, Barnsley, thats very good advice.