WaterBearHug

Oh my god yes. I think I've almost always had a tendency to be rather distant from people (I just chalked it up to being shy) and I absolutely think it's a way of protecting myself. I enjoy time to myself and feel like it helps recharge me, being around too many people for too long feels exhausting, but maybe part of the reason I find it so draining is that I don't feel as secure in myself as I assume I now am (I've come a long way from where I started, so by comparison I likely assumed I was doing well) and it's an effort to attempt to socialize and share myself with others while at the same time avoiding vulnerability and subconsciously and sometimes consciously second guessing what I do and say and how it's perceived by those around me. It's easier to blame my lack of closeness to people, even people I consider to be very good friends, on my introversion, when it's really being caused by other things that I need to dig into and examine further.

I haven't considered a pen pal, but I have been tempted to accept some of the friends requests on facebook from women in the FDR group and see where that goes.

I don't have much time to reply right now because some of my in laws will be visiting soon and we're having a little party that I need to prepare for, but I'll give it a quick go. I hadn't heard of IFS, thanks for the suggestion I'll check it out. The short answer to whether I had any women in my life to rely on for emotional support is no, though I might have had some that I just didn't utilize because I was a "keep to myselfer" who didn't try to seek that support out or take advantage of it when it was available. I don't think I'll be a crazy cat lady, I do have some good people in my life besides my husband. I don't know that I'd ever remarry if anything happened to him, he's a tough act to follow, but I would have my in laws, my child (possibly children if we have another one in the near future) and would likely have some friends to keep me grounded in reality. My friends aren't bad, I'm just not good at the lady thing, but I'd still be able to enjoy spending time with them doing activities, even if I might not be comfortable talking openly and frankly about my world views and so on. I would likely seek out more like minded friends, I already plan to, but as an introvert I sometimes feel like the people I already have in my life are more than enough to try to juggle, and the idea of adding more people and effort to the mix feels a little daunting. I have nothing against cats, I love animals in general, but there is no way I'd let my life and home be taken over by pets of any kind, I'm not the "animals are better than people" type, in spite of being raised the majority of my childhood by one. I have a friend who lives with his mom and they have a LOT of cats both indoors and out and it's insane, but that's a story for another day. Anyway, already been typing longer than I'd planned, gotta go help a toddler finish eating and get our shit together

I agree, there is nothing wrong with being introverted. Being outgoing might mean someone has more relationships, but it doesn't mean those relationships will be of any better quality than an introverts handful of relationships. I had more I wanted to say but I have a 2 year old kissing my arm and wanting "up" so it's going to have to wait.

I probably haven't unpacked all the effects that relationship has had on me. They weren't good effects, that's for sure. It seems like when parents are either unwilling or incapable of raising their own children, their children wind up in the care of the same people who most likely screwed them up. My grandmother had mental and emotional problems that went unaddressed for a long time. I think I was in middle school when she finally went into the hospital thinking she was having a heart attack but it turned out to just be really bad stress/panic attack and they put her on an anxiety medication. My aunt who sought therapy quit a ways into adulthood had a therapist tell her that it sounded like my grandmother was a narcissist, something that I hadn't really thought of at the time (I was in my late teens when my aunt shared this with me) because my grandmother was always trying to do things for other people and tried very hard to be "humble" and I thought of narcissists as very selfish and grandiose. In hindsight that was her version of being "wonderful", she made it a point to not be bejeweled and decked out in fancy clothes, she always gave of our families time and money to people because it made her feel good about herself and she liked the attention and praise she got from it. She was accepting, loving and helpful to some of the biggest losers, but when her own children were struggling with drug addiction and having a hard time she had little sympathy for them, only outrage and acting as though she'd been wronged. Well, there was one uncle who she would always bend over backwards to help, no matter how much he lied to her and took from her, she had a special relationship with him and he'd get a free pass on things that my mom or others never would, but I think she almost enjoyed having him around to complain about and tell everyone how much she was doing for him, and in doing so she did him no favors because he never really grew up. You couldn't have an opinion of your own that conflicted with hers without her taking it as a personal assault. You couldn't just talk to her about much, she was prone to being extremely defensive and would either be hysterical or shut down and give the silent treatment. My grandfather would try to discuss finances with me and prior to that with my mom and her siblings, the importance of not getting into debt and budgeting and so on, and my grandmother would always jump in with a huff "Money isn't everything!" sort of attitude that made it very difficult for him. When I got to be about preteen and well into my teen years I recall being scolded for something as simple as pushing a loose lock of hair behind my hair before entering a store with my grandmother, she would say "Oh, quit being so self-conscious" which would then make me feel even more self-conscious, like, was everyone in the store really watching me that closely and going to judge me for trying to keep my hair out of my face? It was her own self-consciousness being projected onto me, but I was too naive to know that at the time. She would get upset with me if I didn't notice and get excited over every little thing, like one day when I didn't see the new flowers she planted in the front yard on my walk from the school bus into the house. I still remember one instance where she just huffed and puffed and said "You're just like you're grandfather!" (as if that were an insult, I actually admired my grandfather) because I was tired and distracted from being at school all day and didn't throw a ticker tape parade for her new flowers that I hadn't noticed out of the corner of my eye. She was a miserable person who only seemed to like company if they were also miserable, after I'd started dating my husband and was obviously quite happy, she would continue to bring up my past relationship with a guy that wasn't so great and any negative thing under the sun and we'd "talk and talk" while I was there doing laundry and I'd be in tears at some time before I left. She would want to sit there and talk about my grandfather and other people she resented and all the wrongs that had ever been done. Also, even though she claimed to like my now husband and we'd been dating for quite awhile and doing well together, she would continue to bring up a boy I dated for a couple years in high school that she really liked and how sure she was that he still loved me. This was batshit crazy, it had been years since I dated this young man and I'm sure he'd moved on to bigger and better things, but I think she'd been hoping that I'd marry him because he was from a family that was wealthy and he seemed like he was going to be financially successful himself, so maybe she was banking on that in her old age. Anyway, this post is going to be a mess, but one example of the effect my grandmother had on me was when I was learning to drive and eventually got my license. When I drove with my grandmother in the car I was nervous, and she had told my grandfather (who went off to work out of town jobs when I was in my early teens and separated from her when I was about 15) that I was a bad driver and just not getting it. My grandfather had me drive him to my great grandmothers house that was a good 20 or 30 minutes away and he was surprised because I did really well, I think it helped that he was calm and he gave me clear instructions on where to go. Driving was something I was afraid of clear into my mid 20s. I could do it, but I was always fearful. I finally got my license when I was a senior in high school, after failing the test 3 times because I was so nervous that I made stupid mistakes, because I was so aware of the test giver next to me and for some reason it just sapped my confidence and made me second guess myself. When I finally got my license I would drive to school and to a couple of friends houses, but I was still so afraid of driving that I would always have a friend do the driving if I had a choice. Eventually I got a job that required driving people places so I had to get over it, but it's something that definitely hindered me for awhile and caused me yet more self-consciousness. I think the reason I tended to gravitate more towards males is that I didn't have a mother past the age of about 5 or 6, my mother had drug and alcohol abuse problems and neither she nor my grandmother were good role models and I didn't have respect for them. My grandfather was the person I would seek out to spend time with when he was home from work and tried to learn the most from as a child. I had a poor image of women, I thought of them as catty, unreasonable, hysterical, judgmental, interested in silly and shallow things, etc. My grandmother is someone I used to obsess over, I'd wonder why she was the way she was, how much her stupidity was real and how much was a phony because it was easier to play the victim, how she could say and do the things she'd do to the people she was supposed to love and just deny it and downplay it. We were supposed to walk on eggshells with her in order to not set her off, but she could say some of the most hurtful things and just go "What did I dooo? What did I saaay? I don't understand why you're so upset with mee!" How much control did she honestly have over her behavior, and so on. Thankfully I gave it up and don't dwell on her anymore, I don't see her or talk to her often (sometimes years go by) but when I do I am able to sort of laugh it off and just enjoy the show she puts on rather than get upset or take anything to heart. I felt sort of sorry for her because her kids and grandkids don't want much to do with her, but reminded myself that she did this to herself, she resented us all so much and did not try to hide it. She'd often say if she could do it all over again she wouldn't have had kids, she always just wanted to be free of her burdens and "drama" (nevermind that she was a source of so much drama herself) so now she's living alone with her cats and has some nice neighbors that help her run errands. I think she sees my mom and aunt maybe once a month or less, they all live in the same area on the other side of the state. I used to feel guilt over not trying harder to talk to her, but the phone works both ways and I don't think either of us has anything valuable to be gained from attempting to have what can only amount to a shallow relationship. Anyway, entirely too long story short, I think as a result of my relationship with my grandmother I grew up very self-conscious, anxious, afraid, feeling incapable and like I needed someone to rescue and take care of me rather than learning to be capable and do things for myself, I was depressed and still dealt with bouts of it a few years into my relationship with my husband, but I managed to work my way out of that mainly through things like reading cognitive behavioral therapy books and doing the practices in them, and having a sane, stable and loving person in my life who was the right amount of loving me as I was and giving me the gentle pushes I needed to get over my fears and learn that I was indeed capable. ETA: A big effect I forgot to mention was a lack of communication skills, this became especially problematic when I began having romantic relationships. Once again grateful to my husband who was able to stick it out through those early years when I thought he was just supposed to be able to read my mind and "fix" things that he didn't know were "wrong" and often internal issues I had that he had literally no control over.

It's taken me a bit to reply, thanks for the input. On one hand I think I was in a moment where I was letting this be a bigger concern than it really was, but I'm glad I asked because I am feeling motivated to try a little harder. I've always been a rather reserved person and while I don't think I'll ever be out singing karaoke or doing Mary Kay parties because those just really aren't my thing, I do need to push myself to get out of my comfort zone and put more effort into being a better friend. The reason I think of myself as "not the kind of person you call for emotional support" is my discomfort at dealing with adults who are emotionally distressed. I never know what to say or do, and I tend to not be as easily upset or emotionally expressive as most women. I did have a friend call me a couple of months ago to chat about concerns she had about her son and she thanked me for that, but I feel like I probably handled it in more of a dude-like, problem solving sort of way than the "I just need someone to listen and understand" way that people are typically looking for when they are distressed. I am happy with the level my friendships are currently at, and I don't think I'll be at the calling each other daily just to chat and telling each other our darkest secrets level, but I do need to work on myself as far as opening up more with people and trying harder to be available both emotionally and physically, by physically I mean making it more of a priority to spend time with them. My husband and I actually have a fairly solid set of friends, we try to spend time together as much as we're all able to, we used to see each other maybe once a week or every other week but that slowed down in the last few months. Our daughter is definitely exposed to social situations and plenty of different people. We're fortunate to have one couple that is like family to us in that we can call them if we ever need anything and they can do the same, though we don't do it often, they are good people that we know will have our backs. The wife is the only person outside of maybe two family members that we would trust to ever watch our daughter for a couple hours if we wind up needing it. That's another thing I have a hard time relating to other women with, I'm sure eventually I'll reach the point where I need a break, but I genuinely enjoy doing the wife and mom thing and don't feel like I need to "get away" from it all. Maybe it's because I lucked out in who I married and that we only have a 2 year old so far, but I don't feel "drug down" by wife or motherhood. My "break" is in the morning before everyone is awake and my daughter's nap time, those are the times I get to enjoy working on a craft, reading or listening to podcasts/youtubers while I catch up on whatever needs to be done around here. If I get the point where I need a break from my family I'll probably prefer to do something alone, rather than seek out companionship, going to do "girls night" seems like it would be more exhausting than refreshing. I'm careful not to put myself down in front of my daughter, the last thing I want to do is give her a complex where she thinks that she's inherited social ineptness or any other "flaws" from me. I also had a rather depressing childhood living with a grandmother who was constantly stressed, insecure and anxious in social situations (though she seemed to try to make up for it by being over the top friendly to the point where it seemed fake) and eventually got to the point where she stopped seeing almost all her friends and wouldn't answer the phone when they called, which they eventually quit doing. I don't want to push my daughter too hard to be a social butterfly if she doesn't want to be, in many ways I was pushed while I was growing up and it made me more uncomfortable and dig in deeper, but I do want to do what I can to give her opportunities to make friends and pursue interests so she can have a well-rounded and full life. So far our daughter seems to be very empathetic, if a bit shy, and she opens up to people and enjoys them once she has time to warm up to them. Between peaceful parenting, having a healthy marriage and having a handful of solid family and friends that we enjoy spending time with, I think she'll be fine as far as learning about how to navigate the world of people. She's already got a better start than I did as far as parenting goes, so she'll hopefully not face the same issues I had growing up in emotional chaos and insecurity.

Do any other women here find it hard to befriend other women in a meaningful way? I have some friends that are lovely people, but I often feel like the odd man out because they all seem so close to one another and I'm just not part of it. It's actually a relief to not be expected to join in for girls night outs, but I wonder if there is something "wrong" with me because I'm just not good at relating to women about things and I'm not the kind of person you'd call if you were in need of emotional support which seems to be a big thing women use to bond over. I've always been pretty introverted and am not the kind of woman who wants to go out and "cut loose" so I wonder if my reservation is off putting for other women. I'm content with my husband being my best friend, the one I confide in and can be wholly myself around, but I have a young daughter and am starting to become concerned that I'm going to do her a disservice by not being able to model how to make and maintain strong relationships with other women. This concern was sparked by an acquaintance last night who seems to be very good at maintaining quite a few very strong female friendships mentioning how she's teaching her daughter the importance of developing good friendships with other girls because these friends she makes at her age can be a lifelong asset. I was sitting there thinking that the one good female friend I had as a teen isn't really a part of my life anymore, we grew apart quickly after high school graduation and were sort of an "odd couple" to begin with and she often teased me and tried to push me to "come out of my shell" and be something I'm just not. I feel fulfilled and happy, all I honestly want or feel I need as far as close relationships go is my husband and my child, would you say that is unhealthy in some way?