cyberforester

It wasn't so much anything specific that Stef said as his general tenor and the conversation as a whole.

As I said in my inital post, Dad died 4 years ago, so there is no opportunity for him or us to rectify what went on for 19 years. What did Dad put above his family? That sense of worth that he could "fix" someone who was "broken". Actually, he did actually achieve something significant in his relationship. His wife had 3 of her own children and the youngest was 12 when they remarried, so lived with them until she left home in her late teens or early twenties. She credits Dad with having been the best influence on her life and character. She regards herself as being closer to my siblings and myself than she does to her mother - who she knows is "a piece of work". From that perspective, Dad did achieve soemthing worthwhile even if it was at the expense of his relatonship with us and we are sure at some expense to his own happiness. With regard to my original comment, I think there may have been some element of this in what Ashley's own father was going through. I don't think this "uncharacteristic behaviour" is as infrequent as Stef seems to believe it is.

Dad was definitely not "passive" in his relationship with Mum. They had quite robust discussions on topics at various times that I can remember - the arguments - not the topic of the argument. But there was never any lasting resentment. They could have an argument one day and the very next day would have loyally defended the other to the death. I think you are right that Dad was aware of the "red flag" but went ahead in spite of it. My siblings and I have speculated that he saw this woman as "damaged goods" and a "project" for him to fix. (Dad was a very capable handyman and was always fixing something). We think he was either ever hopeful he could get the job done or was resigned to the realisation that it was a hopeless case when he died.

Hi Barnsley, I definitely know that Dad loved his children and grand children. Growing up we all had a great relationship with each of our parents. Dad was very involved in our lives and I am pretty sure my siblings (and our spouses - especially those who knew Mum) would back me up on this. We can only think that Dad was utterly besotted and desperate to prove his love for his new wife. One thing that is a factor in this is that she was a divorcee and I suspect that Dad was worried that "if she had done it before, she could do it again". Dad had never had to worry about that with Mum, as they were totally committed to working on their marriage until death

Stefan, I think you might have missed the mark a bit in your discussion with Ashley and Michael. When Ashley described what went on after her mother died mirrored exactly what my siblings and I went through with our Dad after our mother died - although there was a 3 year span between mum's death and dad remarrying. I am one of 5 and our family was very close and I would say we all had good relationships with both our dad and mum. Mum died of cancer after a 2 year illness. Dad was grief stricken. He spent 2 to 3 years in misery. Then he started seeking out a new relationship. The woman "he chose" was totally unlike mum - immodest, not smart, and very, very possessive. Soon after we met her we saw her darker side - Dad was oblivious to this. One of my brothers, one of my sisters and I all had children at this stage. Dad doted on his grand children. Immediately his new fiance drove a wedge into our relationships, claiming to Dad that we were all unwelcoming and not accepting of her. The two siblings without children were, by contrast, in her eyes, wonderful (although we know they held the same views of this new woman as the other 3). For Dad's sake we initially reserved judgment, but when they got engaged my brothers tried to reason with Dad - not to not re-marry - but to get some councelling and work out some of the differences. Heedless of the suggestions they got married. We spent the next 19 years with very little contact with Dad. After any contact we had with Dad there would be accusations of some misdemeanour or another. Our children grew up barely knowing their grandfather. Dad died about 4 years ago, and in the weeks after his death his widow has gyped us out of what Dad had put in his will, she made sure we were not allowed to be involved in the funeral. Many people have commented to us that they would never have imagined Dad would have taken this course. He so loved his children and his grand children, but for the "love of a woman" he was prepared to go along with her manipulation lies and deceit. As I listened to you talking with Ashley I thought "Stefan just doesn't get it". This new woman in the Dad's life has turned his affections. It happens and it is quite inexplicable how or why a father could do this.

I was involved in an online discussion about socialism versus libertarianism and the free market. Someone suggested they are competing ideologies. I pondered this a while and wondered if that is actually the case. Until Marx and Engels, libertarianism was just REALITY. It was what the common man perceived as cause and effect. What socialism needed was to portray alternative viewpoints as just another version of a reality they conceived of. So they portray socialism and libertarianism as ideological possibilities. Except one of them is a myth and the other a reality. What do others think?