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Thanks for this, most arguments given here seems very reasonable to me. I do think at a CERTAIN AGE, removal of care and attention will USUALLY lead to independency (even though it might not the best method).

About being defensive, I think it was something I wrote in the beginning and you assumed my ideas were in opposition to yours, when in fact they weren't. That's all. About "only a fool", I am not sure what you mean, but my point was that what you said was pretty obvious, that is, sure, sleep training and/or co sleeping at a later age can also be harmful. We just don't know.

Yes, I hope to be able to choose the best, that is why I am reading both sides (both the ones against and for sleep training), and try to form an opinion. Thank you, yes, as parents it is our responsibility to focus on the well being and it can indeed be challenging at times.

"That's all-right, I'm open to having my thinking updated" I do not disagree with you, I also think short term suffering, (if we are sure, there are no long term consequences) are to prefer if it shows it has long term benefits. No need to be all defensive about it Bad habits can of course cause negative consequences, only a fool would disagree. Free individual, yes, the question is not wether or not it would be wrong to upset the baby and let it cry, if there is enough proof and evidence that the baby will indeed not suffer any long term consequences, I would be perfectly fine with short term suffering, the problem is, we simply don't know what the long term consequences are. That is the real question here, and what is important.

I hear simliar stories being told many times, so it makes me more comfortable to maybe give it a try.

Yes I totally agree with most of what you are saying. And interesting to hear your story. Thank you.

double post

You are missing the point, if we knew for sure that there were no harm done with sleep training (long term), I would be the first to sign up and let the child cry, for exactly that reason, short term suffer for long term benefit, however as there seem to be no studies done, we don't know. Independence is very important, but at what costs? What if the stress and anxiety do cause harm to the brain long term. And do we know for sure that a kid who co sleep 1 year longer will be less independent long term? And if all studies show that indeed babies should sleep in their own bed, what if there was a method not involving crying, or at least mitigate crying, stress and anxiety? I would be very interested in that method.

Tooth ache is a natural event in a human beings development, and we as parents should, during this stressful time, do everything we can to support and help the child go through this development stage, leaving a baby alone to cry for a long time, causing it a lot of stress and anxiety is not necessary a natural part of the development. Furthermore, I really don't see any long term benefit of causing the child unnecessary stress and anxiety at all in the short term. Also, what is really the most beneficial to the child? Is there any known studies showing babies doesn't get hurt in this sleep training (the one based upon crying it out until it sleeps) process? How do we know this process is better than a more peaceful approach where the baby will not cry at all?

This is what I kind of thought as well. And the reason why he never seemed to have covered it in depth might be, cause he felt he could not justify the sleep training from an ethical and philosophical stand point.

I have heard many people say it is bad to interfere when the baby is crying. But we really don't know what the long term effect is on the child when not listening to it's crying, even though it is for a limited amount of time. Any known studies made on this subject? Can you quickly just tell me how you went about doing the gentle cry out method? I think it might be the way I want to go about doing it with my own baby, at least at first.

I got the feeling that (and I can be wrong about it, also one of the reasons why I wanted to know more about it) Stefan did it because he thought it was needed, rather than accepting it as a good strategy aligned with his own ideas and ethics concerning good parenting. Did a search around this forum and didn't find any discussions regarding this topic So in your opinion you think it is best if the child is sleeping with the parents, up until what age?

Yes for sure! Once again, thank you! Also, anyone else, have any more info on this?

Yes I know, we have a 9 months old son who is waking up a lot during night, and he sleeps with us at night, so that is why I am looking for information how Stefan did the sleep training. Yes crying it out seems like a somewhat painful method, and we would like to avoid it as much as possible, but maybe it is unavoidable. But if so, try to do it as smooth as possible. And also thank you for sharing your experience, it is also very useful information for us, how old are your sons now if I may ask?

No problem! Interesting, he talked about it here for sure, but not really in depth, I am still looking for more information about how Stefan did it. And thank you for taking the time and find this link for me!