Observing Libertarian

@barn Most assuredly. Have a nice day.

@barn Thanks for welcome. However, in this case, it's much simpler than your post pre-supposes. The US is already operating as very near 100% capacity in terms of vegetative foodstocks. Most people don't know this, I do because I looked it up one day while creating a mathematical proof for bio-fuel production. However, it is true if you look up the volume of farmland and then deduct the acreages of land which farmers are paid, using tax revenues, to not grow on. In spite of the fact that the farmland, the literal available area on which to grow foodstocks, already operating at near capacity: the US only produces a surplus in vegetative food stocks in the form of corn to the tune of 1.631 billion bushels left unsold. Veganism, unlike simple vegetarianism allows for no animal products and no animal byproducts. No red meat, no poultry, no fish, milk, cheese, butter, etc. etc. There is not a volume of land mass on which to grow vegetation in a vast enough quantity to support a substantial portion of the US population even if you combined the vegetative growing territories of several countries not just the US. Even employing the extremely advanced agricultural system which is already in place today which does make use of poly-cultures, mono-cultures, genetically modified seeds, chemically fertilized fields, multi-harvested crop rotations. It's theoretically possible to create self sustaining societies in a far off Logans Run dome city complex by building multi tired vegetative food stock groweries. Places with thin soil which is constantly saturated with chemical fertilizer through sprinkler systems and the plants are bombarded with UV light nonstop in a temperature controlled area, thus radically reducing the time between harvests with no risk of soil depletion. By taking crop production in doors and applying what methodologies pot growers have developed in the realm industrial herbaceous plant production: you have the potential to increase vegetative food stock production. I say in "theoretically": because this has never been done - and therefore the absolute numbers on what plants can be grown in such a way for what level and size of facility, along with just how often said plants can be harvested in this manner, are all unknowns as of yet. Theoretically, because you should be able to grow things like yams, potatoes, beets, cabbage, carrots, etc. with fairly shallow soil: you could grow foodstocks on tables which have drainage run offs to get rid of excess chemical fertilizer and UV emitting lights bombarding the tables at all times. That should allow said plants to reach harvest size faster than in fields. -However, another issue which is as of yet unknown: will the vegetable in question have the same nutritional value if it grows quite as rapidly? -Also, this methodology only functions, in an area efficient manners with shallow soil or top soil plants. Much of this discussion, though relevant to talk about: has breached reality into the realm of science fiction (currently). I don't have an issue with talking about theoretical possibilities: but I strongly urge against abandoning the realm of reality in order to chase theories on "What could be done at some point." Just because I'm smart enough to design a foodstock production complex which would dramatically increase food production capacity: doesn't mean I have the funds to build it and it also doesn't mean anyone else is going to be build it anytime soon. The future will come in it's own due time, the present is what's most pressing. At present: there is not a way to support a vegan diet for a substantial portion of the population of the first world - which is the only society technologically capable of supporting a vegan diet without an individual becoming malnourished. Which excludes the vast majority of the population on the planet. At present, only a fraction of a fraction of the human race is capable of living on a vegan diet due to the technological infrastructure required to enable such a diet (industrious agriculture + artificially produced chemically purified nutritional supplements). This is why the vegan argument "needlessly killing animals is wrong, we should all be vegan" is a complete and utter fallacy. Now... All that being said. If someone wants to argue that people consider veganism for health benefits: confirmed - that's a good argument. If someone wants to argue that people consider veganism for weight loss: confirmed - that's a good argument. It is only the emotionalist argument that everyone should be vegan because those poor animals which is fallacious because it's a pipe dream. I don't mean to say pipe dream as in communist Utopianism: I mean fallacy as in asking that two plus two equal five. In this case, it's asking that landmass Q, physically capable of producing P, instead produce R which is a dozen magnitudes greater than P. Two plus two equals four, not four-hundred, which is what is being asked.

Veganism is an unnatural state for humans. It can be done, but not by any means other than humans living in a technologically advanced society which has progressed well past subsistence and into the realm of near (not quite, but near) post-scarcity. For a Human to be healthy on a Vegan diet: requires two things, simultaneously. 1, Chemically purified and artificially produced vitamin supplements. 2, Large scale industrial agriculture. Both of which are, by human standards, such a high degree of technological capacity that a completely healthy vegan diet, not lacking in nutrition, was only possible in the late 20th century. Humans, like Bears, are omnivorous, by nature. In a natural setting a human body cannot obtain all of it's nutritional needs from either vegetation alone nor animal meat alone. This is why you get the Vegan attempt at a moralizing argument that because humans, currently, can live without animal products: they should and therefore killing animals for food or other goods is simply defined as being "needless". -This ignores the fact that over 90% of the human race does not live within a nation capable of producing either vegetation or the chemically purified nutritional supplements necessary to support a Vegan life style. -This ignores the fact that the 10% of the human race living within first world nations with the industry and technology necessary to support a vegan diet have enough of precisely neither to support a vegan diet for even 30% of that population. The reason people find fairly easy to go Vegan, is because they are an extreme minority: therefore there's plenty of produce. 0.5% ( https://www.vegetariantimes.com/uncategorized/vegetarianism-in-america ) If a substantial portion of the population decided to go Vegan: even the United States with it's extremely advanced industrial farming would incapable of supporting even 20% of the population subsisting entirely on vegetation. There isn't enough farm land to produce that much vegetation. To say nothing of the vitamin and nutrient supplement production which would have to rapidly expand a fantastic number of magnitudes in order to serve the nutritional needs of that many people. The Vegan argument that because humans can live a healthy lifestyle without killing animals: killing animals is unnecessary - is simply a lie. It's a fallacious fantasy indulged in by ignorant, spoiled, petulant, emotionally fragile children who have no concept of reality as it exists outside the very wealthy liberal bubbles in which they live. A select number, with hard limitation placed upon it, of people can live a 100% vegan lifestyle. A tiny fraction of the current population could live as vegans because that's the total sum of people which could be supported by industrial farming and chemically purified nutritional supplements. There exists neither land mass to grow enough food, nor the production capacity of supplements necessary to support a large population of Vegans: even if the entirety of the first world pooled their resources to attempt to accomplish this task. I regard the vegan argument as emotionalism devoid of any semblance of perspective on factual reality and completely disregard anyone who makes that argument as being repugnant. When masses of human lives, every year, every month, every day, every hour, every minute and in fact every second; are dying of starvation - Vegans want to attempt to moralize their unicorn fantasy land of vegan Utopia, something quite literally not possible to produce, and halt food production - because of the poor animals. I find these people disgusting that they place a greater value on the well being of species other than their own.