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I have to say I rather enjoyed the points thadeus russel was bringing out. His ideas that science is basically a moving goal posts That much of our major philosophical ideas are moving goal posts Its rather intriguing... I loved his illustration about up and down... that if you drop a ball down... that depending on your perspective you might actually be dropping it up... This idea of perspective is very illustrative of a lot of things on freedomain radio. Atleast a lot of things that I have learned. A lot of things in life seem right because thats what you are taught... thats all you know... thats your echo chamber but if you take it from an outside perspective... it makes it obvious that some of our givens and standards are nothing more than golden calves and treasured notions... if not outright ivory tower and fairy tale nonsense... Thats one thing I love about freedomain radio... the ability to question and throw a hard look at things... I know there was a conflict between stefan and thadeus... stefan wanting to hold a philosophical argument to establish foundations... while thadeus was coming from an engineering point of view. Stefan's point is somethings are sacred... Thadeus argument was that somethings are sacred because thats what everyone agrees upon at the time... And to me both arguments have merit... Stefan... wanting to establish the validity of his ideas and chalenge them with new material... Thadeus... with his point of view that frankly seems more fitting of an engineer than an academic... was looking at things as they are... letting the data speak... Frankly, I would have liked to hear more of thadeus and less of stefan... I have heard stefan's arguments since time immemorial... but thadeus ideas... as applied to science... are intriguing... I am christian... but thadeus agnostic argument seems very intriguing... I honestly would have loved it if stefan would have asked more questions... approaching the subject from the point of view of his listener... less dispassionate... more openly... If thadeus is wrong... let him dig his own grave... and if he is right... not agreeing but give him time to say his peace... less gushing and triggering but more digging... if there is something stefan does not understand let it go... Leave it as an open question for his community to explain... but let the man thadeus speak... As it stands... I am going to seek out some more talks by thadeus... I feel I need to hear more about his ideas... right or wrong... we don't need to argue someone elses ideas... until we first hear them... and I honestly want to hear them...