Needs vs. Wants

[Wiserphil]

Needs vs Wants by WiserphilPeople do it everyday. Instead of buying what they need they buy what the want.Instead of just buying a nice $2,000 or $3,000 car they purchase the $10,000 to $30,000 vehicle.And what comes with that? Debt, loss of appreciation and payments. Oh yeah and higher insurance.So why couldn't the single mother of two just save her money and pay cash for the car? Because we are in the material world. It's all about the wants. Keeping up with the Jones’s.Let's name some example's of wants shall we. Let's see the obvious that new car, new house, too many cloths,New TV, new appliances, eating out too much and so forth. Get the picture? What about needs? You need shelterright? So why not save a few thousand dollars and buy a half acre of land. I have seen them sell for as much as $1,500 to $2,000. Great now your land is paid for. Why not save another grand or two and buy a rv? Or maybe a trailer. Now you are able to save four to six hundred dollars a month. The next step? Obvious once again. Save your money to build your dream home. Next on the list food. That's pretty important. How about since you own your own land now, plant a garden. Get a couple of chickens maybe a goat or two?Within a few years you could be basically growing all of your food. How much could you save a month then?Being single myself I spend roughly around $320 to $500 a month on food. What about those who have a family? That could reach over a thousand dollars a month. Power? What not save and buy solar panels. That would saveyou another hundred or so a month. And if you are lucky maybe the ground is shallow enough to dig a well. Now I am not sure if you have heard this stat before, but before World war 2 40% of all food in this country came from peoples back yards. What happened to us? We used to be a nation of "Independents". Now we are a nation of "Dependents". Wow our founding fathers would have been so proud. Now imagine it's all paid off. Wouldn't thatbe nice? The majority of your needs are taken care of. House paid for. Car paid for. Food taken care of. The onlyutility you have is your internet. (If someone knows how to get free internet let me know. I am still trying tofigure that one out). Now all of the sudden money is not so important. You don't have to work so long. You don't have to spend such much time away from you family. Because what's more important, buying your children a bunch of toys and games or quality time? How about taking  them on fishing trips, camping, visiting the library, makingsure they get a good education, and most of all giving them attention. Maybe since you have more TIME now you could home school them. Now if you are a single parent I know that may be a challenge but you can see where I am going with this. Question: What if the dollar crashed tomorrow? What if all the shelves in the grocery stores where empty? Are you prepared? It's happened before in the past. Remember the great depression? That lasted for quite a few years, but they where still growing their own food. We are not today. And what about the millions who are on welfare? It could get a little dangerous. But the family that was prepared will be ok. They do not have to worry about the bank repossessing their home. They are not concerned about the Supermarkets’ not having food. Their car is paid off. This is not to bum you out. It's really not our fault. Well sort of not. The governmentsand corporations pretty much for that last hundred years controlled all media and schools. But now we are in an age of enlightenment. Thanks to the internet we can find out virtually anything we want. So now you do not have any excuse. All we know is what we have been taught. But now we are adults. We can open our minds. We canaffect change. We can educate ourselves. We can make this the world a place an alien would want to visit. In closing will we continue to be more and more dependent or will we shake the shackles off and regain our independence? Will we understand that we really don't need have the crap we buy. We are stuck in the material world. Change starts with each and everyone of us. I can not do it for you. Neither can your friends and family. Needs first wants second. What are you Dependent or FREE?

[Brandon Buck _BB_]

That sounds good at first blush but in the society we live in today, there are a few drawbacks to that plan. Older and less expensive vehicles are fine (I drive a 14 year old truck), but what will the single mom do when the transmission goes out and she can't get to work? Aftermarket warranties on a $2000.00 car are expensive, if you can get someone to write one and the cost of being afoot during a repair can be devastating to a job. Even if you're already self sufficient and you don't have a job to go to, you and your goats still need feed... and you simply can't grow everything. Well, I suppose you can but, then you're back to having a job and no time for the kids. Of course, I'm not advising anyone to go out and  buy a new car. There are a lot of used vehicles that are very dependable and much less expensive. However, a payment on  a vehicle is not always wasted money. For some, it's a valuable investment in knowing that they have a much smaller chance of breaking down on the side of the road and, if they do, they know they have a warranty that will cover most repair costs. Which can be very expensive.

 

Owning your own house in today's world isn't all it's cracked up to be either. For instance, what if your goat gets out and causes a car accident with a death? Your house is an open wallet to all potential creditors who can prove your negligence in court. If it's mortgaged, you still run the risk of foreclosure by the bank but to be sure, that is a risk you can control.

 

Farming isn't as cheap as it sounds. And, feeding and caring for farm animals comes with a lot of responsibility and the ever present risk of illness, injury or death of your livestock... so growing all your food is a job and one of your goals was to be shed of a job so you'd  have more free time.

 

Solar panels are becoming less and less expensive as time wears on but so far, the cost to run a farm on solar panels is not cost effective unless some benevolent soul gives them to you.

 

I'm not saying your proposal can't work. On the contrary, a lot of people do it. But to think it's just as easy as aquiring the stuff and living like you're on vacation is a bit naive, to say the least. Living off the grid is a lot of work and it takes a lot of sacrifice. If that sounds like freedom to someone, then it is freedom. It doesn't sound like freedom to me though. Freedom for me is being able to use electricity without worrying about how sunny it is this week. It's enjoying a cold glass of milk with my cookies without having to go milk a goat or cow. It's pretty much taking advantage of all the technology and division of labor that you're proposing I abandon.

 

So yeah... I am FREE, because I depend on others who also depend on me.

[Wiserphil]

I would like to counter a few of your disagreements. First off as soon as you have your car paid off I would buy another cheaper one that at least runs. Maybe $800 or $1,000. Just something to drive until you get the other one out of the shop. As far has not having a job I do not believe that is what I said. The point I was trying to make was if you are self sufficent you will not have to work as much. And with all the money you are saving hopefully you have some kind of "Investment vehcile" to put it in. So one day you can retire. The Goats well that's not a given. Maybe or maybe not. And if the goat did do harm I am thinking I would have some type of insurance. The farm I was envisioning is mostly friuts and veggies. Maybe a couple of chickens. Not sure about the goat now. You've got me  paranoid. To get a good SS garden up and going you will need about ten years. The Dervaes family farm out in the suburbes of CA produce about 12,000 lbs of food a year. They still have regular power but also use Solar panels. Their power bill is about $12 a month. The main point I was trying to make is to not feed "The System". Plus it is very dangerous to be so dependent on society. If I had a family I could sleep a lot better knowing that if there was a national castatrophy I would be ready and not have to worry if there was food on the Supermarket shelves.

the following video is what I had in mind.

 

 

[Brandon Buck _BB_]

I don't really intend to argue the minutia of your proposal. I was simply pointing out that living off the grid isn't as easy as you presented it and, more importantly, that depriving one's self of the benefits afforded by human cooperation and technology isn't synonymous with freedom.

 

I have no problem whatever with anyone who wants to live off the grid.