Slapping the Hands of Toddlers

[MysterionMuffles]

Hey, I babysit for my cousin and I've been trying my best to exercise philosophical parenting with my niece. She's only 14 months old, I don't yell at her, and I certainly don't hit her when she "misbehaves." The only time I feel like I need to use force is when I need to change her diaper or put clothes on her. Usually she complies with a diaper change if I make her laugh first or give her a toy to distract her with, otherwise I regret having to hold her down firmly, but gently because I obviously wouldn't want her running around in her own filth. 

ANYWAYS, my problem is how the rest of my family is. They all think it's justified to hit her when she tosses food or toys around, or does anything else deemed as misbehaving. What irks me the most is what happened earlier today actually. My mom was feeding her, and my niece tossed morsels onto the floor and my mom slapped her hand. It sure as hell did stop my niece from doing it again, but there was a little time period in which she just sat on my mom's lap all confused before she started accepting being fed from her again.

I was on the verge of arguing my mom and telling her how wrong it was to hit my niece, but she said, "there was no other way. At least she stopped throwing the food now, so what else can I do?"

That's the question I want to ask, what else IS there to do? How can I teach my niece not to throw toys and food around without using any agression? I feel stupid sometimes for being proven wrong about the ineffectiveness of spanking, when one of my family members end up getting their way because of violence--no matter how small it may seem.

[PatrickC]

Hi there, Yes, you have my sympathies. The trouble with using hand slaps and the like with a 14 month old are not always quite so obvious in this culture. Hand slaps and spanking on an infant and even up to 11 or 12 can be quite effective as a quick fix remedy for the parent. However, just because they have the desired effect at the time doesn’t mean the parent isn't storing up problems with (and for) that child later in life, particularly in their teens. Physical punishment is lazy parenting and it shows a distinct lack of empathy for that child. The slap communicates, 'just do as I say'!

That said, there are certain things I would look for first, as a form of elimination. Does the infant like the food, is it too warm, not warm enough. Has it been preheated perhaps, adding staleness to the flavour. Understanding a toddler’s preference for food might seem tricky at first. But given their cognitive dysfunction at that age, hardly surprising they might throw away food they dislike, that's being pushed into their mouths.

Infants are always trying to communicate something when they throw things like food. With toys it might be other things. Perhaps they need some attention from the adult. Maybe they have seen this behaviour in other adults or older children. It's about an unmet need for which they are having difficulty communicating..

Next time I would gently tell your mom. 'wait, perhaps the food isn't quite right' or some such statement. Try to get your mom to understand the cognitive dysfunction a toddler faces at that age. Very often adults just haven't considered this at all and are surprised by how ignorant they were. Anyway, hope that helps and best of luck.

[MysterionMuffles]

Hey thank you very much, especially for that second paragraph. I'm not usually a patient person, but it has been rewarding in taking the time to test my niece's preferences. Like making sure to rewarm her food if she's taking her time with it, because I was assuming she was finished when she kept spitting her pasta out or tossing it over her high chair. 

I'm starting to understand that toddler's just lack so much impulse control and how deterimental it might be to their health to punish random behaviour. I suppose I could reason after she's been slapped (hoping I don't have to witness it again though) and pretty much lead by example. I mean, she STILL tosses food around even after that incident with my mom, and I was just about to point out to her that hitting her that time was wrong, but I held back. Didn't want to seem arrogant.

There was also this one time my cousin's husband was threatening my niece with a slap. Thankfully he's never really hit her (as far as I've seen), but that one time she was "acting out" he was getting agressive verbally (again thankfully not physically) and I told him to relax. He said that he had no other choice, and all I could think of at the time was "she doesn't know any better yet." Again, he's actually a great father 99.9% of the time, just that one instance kind of made me fear for her safety.

So what I want to know is, how could I possibly reason with any other family members who get agressive like that? How am I supposed to react? I fear that when I get agressive with anyone who starts to agress against my neice, I'm exemplifying the very thing I'm trying to prevent. Is there really a way to be firm, yet gentle when trying to reveal truth and reason to would-be agressors?

 

 

[Lowe D]

They invented floors so that children could throw food on them.  They invented arms so that you could pick up the food and throw it away, like a mature adult.

I'm not so sure about the idea of being patient with someone who wants to slap a child.  Patience is not something they're showing the child, so they haven't earned it from you.

[Roberto]

I recommend to listen:

http://daynamartin.com/unschooling-blog/my-freedomain-radio-interview-with-stefan-molyneux/

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_2255_dayna_martin_philosophical_parenting_2.mp3

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_2268_robin_grille_28_Nov_2012.mp3

Get Dayna Martin's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Unschooling-Revolution-Begun-Revised-Edition/dp/1460939980/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358975897&sr=8-1&keywords=dayna+martin

Read Alfie Kohn:

http://www.amazon.com/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358975955&sr=1-1&keywords=unconditional+parenting

Check out Marshall Rosenberg: Non Violence Communicattion workshop

All these have helped me tremendously.

 

[Jax]

How can I teach my niece not to throw toys and food around without using any agression? I feel stupid sometimes for being proven wrong about the ineffectiveness of spanking, when one of my family members end up getting their way because of violence--no matter how small it may seem.

Asking how to teach a 14 month old not to throw food is like asking how to teach a three year-old how to drive. It's impossible. Fourteen month-olds throw food. It's what they do. Treat her with love and respect and eventually she will stop and move on to something else. If you treat the toys with care and respect in her presence then that will teach her how. For God's sake treat her kindly. If the other members of her family are hitting her when she is only 14 months old she is going to need all the help she can get.

[PatrickC]

So what I want to know is, how could I possibly reason with any other family members who get agressive like that? How am I supposed to react? I fear that when I get agressive with anyone who starts to agress against my neice, I'm exemplifying the very thing I'm trying to prevent. Is there really a way to be firm, yet gentle when trying to reveal truth and reason to would-be agressors?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, so correct me here of course, but I'm not entirely sure that's the root of your fear... I'd suggest that perhaps it's their prior displays of aggression that you have either experienced first hand yourself, or seen others experience that drives that fear. It's not logical to think that asking someone to stop being aggressive, as 'being' aggressive, if that makes sense.

With that in mind you certainly have my sympathy. Of course you are under no obligation to do anything. Although you can just gently point out to them what you are experiencing whilst they are being aggressive, such as fear etc. Suggest that some or all of those feelings are what the child is likely to be experiencing as well and how necessary is it to make the child feel that way. Approaching aggressive people is very scary of course, but it can be done. Just 'check in' with yourself beforehand, since some of those feelings are there to protect you.

[MysterionMuffles]

Wow what a no brainer that went past me. Of course she throws food around when she's done eating, she's preverbal so she has no other way to communicate that. And it's not like all the time will she throw toys or bowls away, more and more lately she's been learning to let things down gently.

To xelent, thanks for your reply. I have evaluated what I said and I've come to realize that my reactivity to my family's insensitivity is brought upon direct contact with their aggression when I was young. The fact that when I would lash out at them before I would be shamed for my behaviour. Sometimes I still do. Couple that with my deep study of a more peaceful way, I just feel like I'd be committing hypocrisy by being aggressive when it comes to telling my family to treat my niece more kindly.

I really feel for this child...

Her parents are decent individuals in a relationship that could use some work. They are a subpar couple but as parents they have th capacity to be warm, loving and engaging with my niece. It's just a horrible shame that her father can sometimes nearly proudly tell me about hitting her for something as minuscule as tossing a bowl over a high chair, claiming she did it on purpose. When he told me this I joked that she was only five slaps away from becoming a porn star, three if you just want her to be a stripper, or one more if you just want her to be a C grade student when she grows up. Then I went on to tell him how children's IQs drop the more they get hit and all this other new knowledge I wanted to share, however condescendingly.

I can clearly see the fallacy of my approach as it lacked a lot of tact. He said "if that's the case, why am I so smart?" Implying that he got abused as a child himself but he turned out okay...which I can honestly say as objectively as I can, that no he did not. I'll refuse to give into my temptation to judge him because I remember how excited he was about all the things he learned about child care when she was only four months old, looong before I ever thought of taking care of my self. And when he plays with her, the amount of laughter he's able to provide for her ...

it is truly heartbreaking for me to see him abandon the father he could be. He even posted a video on Facebook of a baby in Malaysia getting beaten up by their mother with a pillow a handful of slaps. His title heading was "can this baby get justice?" Giving me the impression that he has the capacity for empathy for little children and I reminded him of this, yet he tried to justify that when he had slapped my niece's hand on a few occasions, it's just a tiny slap. Like WTF?! 

I am at a loss of my bearings here...I guess my new updated question to this thread is how do I approach the father about this? Is it even more condescending to bring it up randomly? I think so. But say he mentions it again... Does he have the right to receive empathy from me and simply ask him how he truly feels about the abuse of his child and of his own childhood? I feel like I get nowhere just giving reasons as to why he shouldn't abuse her like that... Instead I feel like I need to be on a more empathetic level as opposed to educative.

 

 

[Jose Perez]

 

To xelent, thanks for your reply. I have evaluated what I said and I've come to realize that my reactivity to my family's insensitivity is brought upon direct contact with their aggression when I was young. The fact that when I would lash out at them before I would be shamed for my behaviour. Sometimes I still do. Couple that with my deep study of a more peaceful way, I just feel like I'd be committing hypocrisy by being aggressive when it comes to telling my family to treat my niece more kindly.

 

This is like saying that leaving abusive relationships is "aggressive" and therefore hypocritical – an argument I have heard from statists and bad people countless times. I am sorry, I don't think you can evaluate the moral legitimacy of anger responses from within the family situation you describe. Granted, it's very difficult, but it is perfectly legitimate to use force to stop a child from being hit; child abuse is the greatest immorality.

I really wish people would stop using arguments from effect – like what children would become when they become old – when talking to parents. It changes nothing.

 

I am at a loss of my bearings here...I guess my new updated question to this thread is how do I approach the father about this? Is it even more condescending to bring it up randomly? I think so. But say he mentions it again... Does he have the right to receive empathy from me and simply ask him how he truly feels about the abuse of his child and of his own childhood? I feel like I get nowhere just giving reasons as to why he shouldn't abuse her like that... Instead I feel like I need to be on a more empathetic level as opposed to educative.

 

I understand what you say and you have all my sympathies, but the only response this father deserves at this point is your rejection and condemnation, which is the only morally consistent response within the practical constraints you have. Anything else changes nothing, as you can see.

[Jose Perez]

Hi xelent, this caught my attention, I hope you can clarify.

 

Try to get your mom to understand the cognitive dysfunction a toddler faces at that age. 

 

What cognitive dysfunction? Are you aware of the meaning of these words?

 

But given their cognitive dysfunction at that age, hardly surprising they might throw away food they dislike, that's being pushed into their mouths.

 

But if food is being pushed into their mouths, why is it their cognitive disfunction that causes them to throw away food they dislike?

[Rick Horton]

I wholly agree that violence is bad, but not all aggression is equal. I mean that's as odd as the biblical interpretation of stealing a loaf of bread being equal to murder in God's eyes. It's just shallow. A small slap on the wrist is probably not the best way to teach a baby something, but it's also not something that can be "equivicated" to being violent. There is aggression. There is physical aggression. There is violence. And I don't think it's all the same and I don't think it wise to condemn parents for spanking. Sure condemn them for beating violently with intent to do physical damage that would meet the level of abuse, right? I mean I can, and so do most people, differentiate from a spanking and domestic violence. An abusive parent is one who chooses not to distinguish between a spanking and violence. They can't draw the line, and go overboard. It's nuanced and there is a grey area, but the grey area is wide enough that a good parent can stay in the white and not dip toward, even, the grey areas before that wide stretch that leads to the black (violent) area of physical punishment. I think it's unwise also, to try and understand the dynamic of other people's family, unless there is an undeniable use of violence in that family. Spankings don't meet that level. People should probably focus on the dynamic of their own family unit before second guessing other people's parenting strategies or traditions. In no way do I accept violence with children, but I don't accept either, that all physical aggression meets the standard to be defined as violence. Everybody has to measure this with their own moral compass, but do so with caution. Claiming authority over other people's morals is puritan behavior unless the child is in danger. And it's very open to dispute when that level is breached, so be careful.  Don't be a bull in somebody elses family China Shop.

[Dave Bockman]

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

[Jax]

I typed "define violence" into Google and it gave me the following definition:

 

 

 

 

Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

 

 

 

 

Spanking is behavior involving physical force intended to hurt. That's the whole point. To make a negative association in the child's mind through the use of pain. Therefore, spanking is violence. No amount of ridiculous justification and fallacy can change that.

[Rick Horton]

 

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

 

Correct. 

[Guest NateC]

 

 

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

 

Correct. 

 

Wrong.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

 

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

 

Correct. 

 

Wrong.

 

Do you let other people stab you children? Cause them physical pain? Do you ever let other people cause them to choke?

[Jax]

Do you let other people stab you children? Cause them physical pain? Do you ever let other people cause them to choke?

 

 

 

I wouldn't let any adult act in a way that was intended to cause pain to my child. That includes spanking and it includes myself.

[Wesley]

I wouldn't let any adult act in a way that was intended to cause pain to my child. That includes spanking and it includes myself.

 

+1

[Rick Horton]

Do you let other people stab you children? Cause them physical pain? Do you ever let other people cause them to choke?

 

I wouldn't let any adult act in a way that was intended to cause pain to my child. That includes spanking and it includes myself.

 

 

I myself, take my kids to the dentist. Just a heads up.

[Jax]

 

I myself, take my kids to the dentist. Just a heads up.

 

I don't suggest taking your kids to a dentist who engages in behavior that is INTENDED to hurt your children.

[Jose Perez]

As I have been saying, this is exactly what happens when philosophers abandon principles and go lose themselves in the Garden of Effect. I wish you guys a nice chat.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

I myself, take my kids to the dentist. Just a heads up.

 

I don't suggest taking your kids to a dentist who engages in behavior that is INTENDED to hurt your children.

 

They don't know your kid will feel pain? Is that what you're telling me?  Anybody who believes spanking = physical assault HAS to believe taking your kids to the dentist is letting a strange guy physically assault their kid.

[Jax]

 

They don't know your kid will feel pain? Is that what you're telling me?  Anybody who believes spanking = physical assault HAS to believe taking your kids to the dentist is letting a strange guy physically assault their kid.

 

Yes they know that a child will feel pain during dental work but that is irrelevant.

Do you recognize that there is a meaningful moral difference between doing something that you know will cause pain, and doing something with intent to cause pain?
Do you also recognize that spanking a child is an action done with intent to cause pain, that the pain is integral to the supposed purpose of spanking?

To argue that spanking is not assault, you will have to define 'assault'. If we use the Merriam-Webster definition "a violent physical attack," and we use the definition of violence that I suggested earlier, namely, behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill..." then spanking is assault.

If we use this, more accurate (in my opinion) definition of violence, "the imposition of one's will upon another without consent by the use of physical force," then spanking is certainly violence. Whether it is assault or not, I don't really care. It is enough to know that it is a violent act.

But let's pretend I do care whether it is assault or not. Given the following definition of assault from the legal dictionary,  it is obvious that spanking qualifies as such. "An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim."

To reject this, you are going to have to provide definitions for the following: spanking, violence, assault and then show, using these definitions, that spanking is neither violent nor assault.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

They don't know your kid will feel pain? Is that what you're telling me?  Anybody who believes spanking = physical assault HAS to believe taking your kids to the dentist is letting a strange guy physically assault their kid.

 

Yes they know that a child will feel pain during dental work but that is irrelevant.

Do you recognize that there is a meaningful moral difference between doing something that you know will cause pain, and doing something with intent to cause pain?
Do you also recognize that spanking a child is an action done with intent to cause pain, that the pain is integral to the supposed purpose of spanking?

 

Yes. I do. But you don't seem to. 

Yes I do. And it's not assault. I won't play this game with you. If you say spanking is assault, then you are saying dentistry is, too. Bottom line expected pain. Both have the intent to promote health. Both do. Spanking is not assault. Beating is assault. Do you think spanking and beating, and raping, and murdering, and torturing are all the same thing? Look. Avoiding nuance isn't good philosophy, so that fact that you are avoiding the nuances in the difference between a spanking and assault really means you have a problem making important moral distinctions. You can say spanking = assault all you want, I'll grant you that, but that really waters down what assault is. That kind of argument really sucks. And to suggest that if a parent gives a kid a spanking "always" means they are assaulting their kid violently, then that is a huge problem withf your ability to judge distinctions in reality. Massive cognitive failings. You are free to raise your kids with no spanking. Other parents are perfectly justified in using spankings as a method to keep children from hurting themselves, severely by running into traffic, touching hot stoves, disrespecting mom, etc... I NEVER equivicated getting a spanking from my parents as violent assault. That would be assinign. Knowing the difference between when you are REALLY being abused with violent assault is too important to mix with a spanking which causes pain for oh, about 10 seconds. A swat on the ass... 

[Guest NateC]

 

I NEVER equivicated getting a spanking from my parents as violent assault. That would be assinign. Knowing the difference between when you are REALLY being abused with violent assault is too important to mix with a spanking which causes pain for oh, about 10 seconds. A swat on the ass... 

 

And so explains the sum of our interactions.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

I NEVER equivicated getting a spanking from my parents as violent assault. That would be assinign. Knowing the difference between when you are REALLY being abused with violent assault is too important to mix with a spanking which causes pain for oh, about 10 seconds. A swat on the ass... 

 

And so explains the sum of our interactions.

 

Wow. You really are a passive aggressive little fuck head...

[Stefan Molyneux]

The effects of spanking on the fight/flight mechanism are just tragic.

[Rick Horton]

 

The effects of spanking on the fight/flight mechanism are just tragic.

 

What kind of spanking? I don't know if you were seriously abused, Stefan, or not. But I got spankings when I was little, and I totally remember how I felt before, during, and after those spankings. I never once thought that my parents were abusing me, and they didn't abuse me. It's important to make distinctions between violence and spankings. Beating is violent, giving a spanking isn't violent in any way. It causes pain for around 10 second, but there isn't violence there. Maybe you were screamed at, beat, thrown around, hit in the face, I don't know. But that's not what a spanking is. Not at all. It's totally warped to refuse to make these distinctions and just yell ASSAULT!!! Maybe you disagree with spankings, but spanking isn't assault, and calling it assault, violence, or any other name that implicitly implies angry destruction is only going to water down what real abuse is to sell your NAP based on it's fully deployed extent, which just is not reality. Not all force is equal, and not all force is immoral. In fact you know as well as I do that property itself is force. You would protect your property with it, but since property is only something YOU think you have the right to posess, any engagement of "self defense" deployed to protect that property is really force, since if you didn't try and hold onto that thing in the first place there would be no reason to use force to defend that thing you feel you have some moral right over another to hold onto.  So, force is not always bad. And although spanking is force, it is not violent, evil, assault, abuse, etc.... Those terms carry a very real and tangible resonance, but I'm not as impressionable as others so I'll carry my own arguments and not kill the nuance of language. 

[MysterionMuffles]

The difference is staggeringly clear. Spanking no matter the extremity IS the cause of physical pain to alter the mental physiology of the child--and definitely not for their benefit. If a kid is slapped to be taught not to hurt theirselves by touching hot stoves and running into traffic, that means I can tell a woman to make sure she doesn't get raped by suggesting she wear a belt for a skirt and a bandana for a bra, and then take a stroll down dangerous parts of a city at night.

Dentistry is intended to teach dental health meanwhile the severity of pain received by the patient solely depends on how severe their dental condition is. Unfortunately for now with our level of dental technology, it may cause some irritation if not pain to have ones teeth cleaned. So we can make do with that. But once again, unless a kid is taught how to take proper care of their teeth, their gums wouldn't be sensitive enough to really feel pain when getting them scaled by a dentist.

as for misbehaving children, obviously there IS non painful alternative that some people are too narrow minded to acknowledge. It's called reasoning and education. Slapping a kid for running into traffic just teaches them that pain will be anywhere they go whether they make good decisions or not. It is actually better to explain why they shouldn't do something as opposed to just hitting them for doing it. Otherwise they grow up fearful of decision making because they all lead to something painful.

 

 

[Rick Horton]

 

The difference is staggeringly clear. Spanking no matter the extremity IS the cause of physical pain to alter the mental physiology of the child--and definitely not for their benefit. If a kid is slapped to be taught not to hurt theirselves by touching hot stoves and running into traffic, that means I can tell a woman to make sure she doesn't get raped by suggesting she wear a belt for a skirt and a bandana for a bra, and then take a stroll down dangerous parts of a city at night.

 

 

 

 

That makes no sense. I don't know what you are saying here, at all. It's actually nonsense. And comparing rape to spankings makes you so inept at understanding the difference between the 2 that you actually tried to "enter" rape into the realm of this conversation to draw some parallel with a spanking.  You must not have any idea of what rape is to say something so ignorant.

[Jax]

Moncaloono - In my last post I used reason and logic to show you where you were wrong. I told you what would be required for you to reject my conclusions or to advance your own conclusions. You didn't really respond to anything I said except to say that I was wrong, and to repeat yourself regarding your original claim. You did not define any of the terms which you are using, and you did not show how spanking fit into those terms, despite my asking you to. We can go back and forth saying "is too," "is not," all we want, but unless you are prepared to explain exactly what you mean when you say "is not," (like I have explained exactly what I mean when I say "is too"), then the discussion isn't going to get anywhere.

 

 

 

 

I do not believe you have the ability to discussion this issue with reason, and I do not believe you have the logical framework necessary to discuss morality (for example, you do not seem to understand the difference between a desired effect and a side effect of an action).

 

 

 

 

I wish you best of luck and I beg you not to hit your or anyone else's children, ever. As far as I can tell, you haven't reasoned yourself into the position you are currently holding and so it would be folly to attempt to reason you out of it.

[MysterionMuffles]

 

 

This is like saying that leaving abusive relationships is "aggressive" and therefore hypocritical – an argument I have heard from statists and bad people countless times. I am sorry, I don't think you can evaluate the moral legitimacy of anger responses from within the family situation you describe. Granted, it's very difficult, but it is perfectly legitimate to use force to stop a child from being hit; child abuse is the greatest immorality.

I really wish people would stop using arguments from effect – like what children would become when they become old – when talking to parents. It changes nothing.

 

I understand what you say and you have all my sympathies, but the only response this father deserves at this point is your rejection and condemnation, which is the only morally consistent response within the practical constraints you have. Anything else changes nothing, as you can see.

 

so does this mean this is one of those times that two negatives can make a positive? I make it abundantly clear of my derision towards his actions without taking in account the reasoning behind his own behaviour without giving him the chance to evaluate himself through questions designed to make him question his own emotional scar tissue and the residue left from his own childhood?

[Nathan T_ Freeman]

 

 

The difference is staggeringly clear. Spanking no matter the extremity IS the cause of physical pain to alter the mental physiology of the child--and definitely not for their benefit. If a kid is slapped to be taught not to hurt theirselves by touching hot stoves and running into traffic, that means I can tell a woman to make sure she doesn't get raped by suggesting she wear a belt for a skirt and a bandana for a bra, and then take a stroll down dangerous parts of a city at night.

 

That makes no sense. I don't know what you are saying here, at all. It's actually nonsense. And comparing rape to spankings makes you so inept at understanding the difference between the 2 that you actually tried to "enter" rape into the realm of this conversation to draw some parallel with a spanking.  You must not have any idea of what rape is to say something so ignorant.

 

Oh man, thank you so much for validating my intuition to ostracize you. I sincerely hope that you can someday observe your argument here in light of how you address your girlfriend, how you address your own parents, and how you address your situtations with your kids. All of this needs dramatic inward reflection that can probably only be achieved through therapy. Seriously, I hope you seek it.

Please let me know if you ever start the process. You have a keen, insightful intelligence. When it has been freed from the propaganda of parent-worship through abuse, I imagine that it will be incredibly engaging. Best of luck to you.

[Jose Perez]

 

I make it abundantly clear of my derision towards his actions without taking in account the reasoning behind his own behaviour without giving him the chance to evaluate himself through questions designed to make him question his own emotional scar tissue and the residue left from his own childhood?

 

Well, my opinion would be that you do not make it clear enough – let alone "abundantly" – since you are not acting consistently with the immorality of the situation.

They get it that you are still with them. No amount of moralizing them from a perspective of superior knowledge of whatever effects spanking has will change their minds, just like no amount of talking about the negative effects of statism does anything to convince a statist, but the complete opposite.

Slapping the hand of a toddler is an action (and there is no "reasoning" behind it, but anti-reason); telling people about the science of spanking, respect for children, etc. is words. Seeing my mother slap the hand of a toddler – and rationalize it with all this effects crap – would be the end of our relationship, which would be an action on my part. 

You do not fight immorality with words. Stef knows that very well and advocates it with respect to sky ghosts like god and state, so why not with real life things like toddlers being slapped? Think about it.

[PatrickC]

To xelent, thanks for your reply. I have evaluated what I said and I've come to realize that my reactivity to my family's insensitivity is brought upon direct contact with their aggression when I was young. The fact that when I would lash out at them before I would be shamed for my behaviour. Sometimes I still do. Couple that with my deep study of a more peaceful way, I just feel like I'd be committing hypocrisy by being aggressive when it comes to telling my family to treat my niece more kindly.

Well I'm sorry that all happened to you and appears to still be happening even now. Personally I think you are in quite a difficult enviroment to ratiionalise what is going on. On the surface it seems that you have taken on the role of shaming yourself. Insofar as now you call yourself a hypocrite for confronting them on hitting your neice. Given your history as you described it, that would make some sense that you might now internalise your own shaming.

Therapy would be my best advice from here on, since my thoughts on this would be vague at best, given the constraints in forum posting. A therapist has the best ways of uncovering these parts to ourselves

On an aside this isn't to dismiss the hitting of your neice right now, which is clearly wrong. The fact that you have to ask on a forum what to do, tells me you have a great deal of ambivilence (perhaps anxiety too) around your family. Which is why I would suggest therapy. Best wishes.