Slapping the Hands of Toddlers

[Andersfilosof]

 

 

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

 

Correct. 

 

 

It depends on your definition of assault.  I think a reasonable one would be "an action which imposes physical force, often causing pain or fear."  If you don't think spanking causes pain or fear, you know nothing about spanking.  In fact, the definitive purpose of spanking is to cause pain and fair.

[Rick Horton]

Moncaloono - In my last post I used reason and logic to show you where you were wrong. I told you what would be required for you to reject my conclusions or to advance your own conclusions. You didn't really respond to anything I said except to say that I was wrong, and to repeat yourself regarding your original claim. You did not define any of the terms which you are using, and you did not show how spanking fit into those terms, despite my asking you to. We can go back and forth saying "is too," "is not," all we want, but unless you are prepared to explain exactly what you mean when you say "is not," (like I have explained exactly what I mean when I say "is too"), then the discussion isn't going to get anywhere.




I do not believe you have the ability to discussion this issue with reason, and I do not believe you have the logical framework necessary to discuss morality (for example, you do not seem to understand the difference between a desired effect and a side effect of an action).




I wish you best of luck and I beg you not to hit your or anyone else's children, ever. As far as I can tell, you haven't reasoned yourself into the position you are currently holding and so it would be folly to attempt to reason you out of it.

 

more passive aggression.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

 

The difference is staggeringly clear. Spanking no matter the extremity IS the cause of physical pain to alter the mental physiology of the child--and definitely not for their benefit. If a kid is slapped to be taught not to hurt theirselves by touching hot stoves and running into traffic, that means I can tell a woman to make sure she doesn't get raped by suggesting she wear a belt for a skirt and a bandana for a bra, and then take a stroll down dangerous parts of a city at night.

 

That makes no sense. I don't know what you are saying here, at all. It's actually nonsense. And comparing rape to spankings makes you so inept at understanding the difference between the 2 that you actually tried to "enter" rape into the realm of this conversation to draw some parallel with a spanking.  You must not have any idea of what rape is to say something so ignorant.

 

Oh man, thank you so much for validating my intuition to ostracize you. I sincerely hope that you can someday observe your argument here in light of how you address your girlfriend, how you address your own parents, and how you address your situtations with your kids. All of this needs dramatic inward reflection that can probably only be achieved through therapy. Seriously, I hope you seek it.

Please let me know if you ever start the process. You have a keen, insightful intelligence. When it has been freed from the propaganda of parent-worship through abuse, I imagine that it will be incredibly engaging. Best of luck to you.

 

Hey, well if you're sincer, my hats off to you and I respect that. I do firmly disagree, and I hope you stay well.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

 

So spanking a child does not mean you are physically assaulting them, is that correct?

 

Correct. 

 

 

It depends on your definition of assault.  I think a reasonable one would be "an action which imposes physical force, often causing pain or fear."  If you don't think spanking causes pain or fear, you know nothing about spanking.  In fact, the definitive purpose of spanking is to cause pain and fair.

 

Are you saying you know more than I do about pain?  By your definition you just restated my position that if you go by that,  then dentists assault children. In fact, if we are looking at the fight or flight response I would bet that kids have a MUCH MUCH greater chemical fear response to dentistry than a spanking. Also MUCH more when they stub there toe, get hit by a car, touch a burning hot stove with there little hands, fall on the ground and  bust their lip open, climb a tree and fall and break an arm, have to get a shot at the doctor, and countless other situations where they have pain and confusion. Spankings are SO mild if done right that they can often be the best, and sometimes only way to prevent a toddler without the ability to make abstract decisions even if you try to explain danger to them, from experiencing a REAL rush of terror when they REALLY hurt themselves. My argument isn't to the prominant posters of this forum since I know the massive conditioning that most here exhibit, but to the passer bys who aren't commited to one philosophy. I agree with a lot of the Anarchis ideas, but there are just so many that I see around this forum that are really weird to me. Not because I haven't thought these ideas through, but because I've REALLY really thought these ideas through. I feel I'm in a different position because I'm not locked into or married to anarchy, libertarianism, or any philosophical belief. I haven't found one that doesn't have massive errors "somewhere" and at the same time, I haven't found one philosophy that doesn't have very good observations, too. But I keep my studies completely detached from philosophical dogmas so I never get jaded by conditioning, bullet points, and repetition.

[MysterionMuffles]

Apparently my niece hasn't been hit or yelled at ever since I had that talk with my cousin's husband. The one where I said "she's only 5 slaps away from becoming a porn star," though I do wish I could run deeper than that and tell him how much of a good father I know he could be, if he'd only just stick with that same peaceful enthusiasm he had when she was much more little. Whether I played any part in that or not, I am happy to even see them deal with her peacefully when she throws tantrums or refuses to get dressed. They're silent, forgiving and just hold her still as gently as they can.

Though I don't know what happens during the week when she's out of my care, I hope my assumptions are right, especially ever since my cousin confided in me and my family about her declining relationship with her so called husband. My speculation is that the more distant the two become, the more likely it is for them to take out their frustrations on my niece. I hope to God* that they are starting to work out their differences and remember why the got married and had this kid in the first place. 

So thank you all for your input everyone! And to the guy who posted just a bunch of links, I've listened to Stef's conversations with Dayna and they were really helpful. As for the books and whatnot, I don't think I require them that much. But thanks for the reccomendations nonetheless.

 

*I use the term loosely...

[PatrickC]

Apparently my niece hasn't been hit or yelled at ever since I had that talk with my cousin's husband.

Well that is great news, so you seem to be having more of an effect than you imagined. []

It's surprsing sometimes that despite the reticence, hostile or negative to peaceful parenting in particular to spanking. That many parents will actually change their habits based on just one person calling them out on it. Of course it's difficult to know the long term effects on those parental choices, but it's clear that many people only need to hear a cogent argument against spanking once for them to stop.

[MysterionMuffles]

Yeah. I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier about him posting a video about a baby getting beaten up with a pillow, when I mentioned it to him and told him it was the same thing, he said the slap on the hand was minor in comparison to that. I did say something to the effect that abuse is abuse no matter the amount, so I really hope that was the more cornerstone argument I made as opposed to the whole porn star thing lol, because even I admit that is taking it too far on a very effect based argument.

[Rick Horton]

 

Yeah. I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier about him posting a video about a baby getting beaten up with a pillow, when I mentioned it to him and told him it was the same thing, he said the slap on the hand was minor in comparison to that. I did say something to the effect that abuse is abuse no matter the amount, so I really hope that was the more cornerstone argument I made as opposed to the whole porn star thing lol, because even I admit that is taking it too far on a very effect based argument.

 

abuse is always abuse. But a minor hand slap is not abuse. 

[MysterionMuffles]

 

abuse is always abuse. But a minor hand slap is not abuse. 

 

Yeah you're right, a hand slap is not abuse. In the same way, grabbing a random woman's ass is not rape. 

They are both gateways to possible abuse in the future if the perpetrator feels that they can get away with it on a regular basis. Although they are definitely not their more extreme counterparts, they are still violiations of a person's physical comfort that does cause psychological damage.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

abuse is always abuse. But a minor hand slap is not abuse. 

 

Yeah you're right, a hand slap is not abuse. In the same way, grabbing a random woman's ass is not rape. 

They are both gateways to possible abuse in the future if the perpetrator feels that they can get away with it on a regular basis. Although they are definitely not their more extreme counterparts, they are still violiations of a person's physical comfort that does cause psychological damage.

 

Comparing slapping hands to rape is disgusting

[MysterionMuffles]

Ok I get that my comparisons are putting you off, but are you at least acknowledging my main argument that a hand slap STILL CAUSES physical discomfort that provides no real benefit to the person receiving it? 

Again it's different from the pain of dentistry because that pain can be avoided if gums are healthy enough to withstand the sharp tools used, and of course any physical discomfort felt from receiving a scaling results in the blatant end in improving dental health. 

 

[Jose Perez]

 

Yeah you're right, a hand slap is not abuse. In the same way, grabbing a random woman's ass is not rape. 

 

This is definitely not a good comparison, given the child's cognitive development and overal experience of the world. Children are not "little persons" (like they are seen in old paintings) who process hand slaps and abuse in the way you seem to believe. Children will internalize abuse as self attack, and their dependency to the adults in their lives is an actual psychological experience of unity with them, not some sort of political or social landscape where they must be given "respect". All forms of abuse, conscious and unconscious result from this fundamental lack of empathy, which is very sad and unfortunate.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

Yeah you're right, a hand slap is not abuse. In the same way, grabbing a random woman's ass is not rape. 

 

This is definitely not a good comparison, given the child's cognitive development and overal experience of the world. Children are not "little persons" (like they are seen in old paintings) who process hand slaps and abuse in the way you seem to believe. Children will internalize abuse as self attack, and their dependency to the adults in their lives is an actual psychological experience of unity with them, not some sort of political or social landscape where they must be given "respect". All forms of abuse, conscious and unconscious result from this fundamental lack of empathy, which is very sad and unfortunate.

 

What evidence do you have other than Stef's podcasts to support this? This is quack talk. Don't water down abuse. Everybody talks about self knowledge as if it was an abstract. I wasn't always a grown up. I had some spankings when I was little, and some hand slaps. It didn't traumatize me. There is a bond of care with good parents and they show so much love that a little hand slap is not some kind of huge big deal. It's not abuse. It's not rape. I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person. A hand slap, or spanking should never cause severe pain. If it does, THEN it's being done wrong. When done right, it is just a way to prevent a toddler from doing something he doesn't understand is dangerous again. You can't always reason with children who are too young to rationalize danger, but you can give a little hand slap or spanking to stop a child from doing something dangerous when they are about to. Then they relate that little spanking to the situation and don't do it again. Like running into traffic, or touching a stove top. It's not abuse. Abuse is very different, and associating abuse with something like a small, harmless handslap is wrong to do.

[Arius]

I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person.

I return your argument.

If I slap you for making that argument, will you understand it is a type of loving discipline?  It shouldn't traumatize you.  I'll only slap you a little, it won't cause severe pain.  It will be an expression of my love for you as a fellow person.  We have a bond of care between us, so it's not some kind of huge deal.  I don't want to discipline you, but you don't seem to understand how much danger your argument puts you in.  Don't you see?  I need to slap you for your own good.  It doesn't mean you're any less of a person or that I don't like you.  It just means I cannot reason with your young mind (as it cannot rationalize danger), and you need to be slapped into not making this argument again.  It's not abuse. It's not assault or rape.  Associating assault with something like a small, harmless slap is wrong to do.

 

[J Ham]

 

 

 

Yeah you're right, a hand slap is not abuse. In the same way, grabbing a random woman's ass is not rape. 

 

This is definitely not a good comparison, given the child's cognitive development and overal experience of the world. Children are not "little persons" (like they are seen in old paintings) who process hand slaps and abuse in the way you seem to believe. Children will internalize abuse as self attack, and their dependency to the adults in their lives is an actual psychological experience of unity with them, not some sort of political or social landscape where they must be given "respect". All forms of abuse, conscious and unconscious result from this fundamental lack of empathy, which is very sad and unfortunate.

 

What evidence do you have other than Stef's podcasts to support this? This is quack talk. Don't water down abuse. Everybody talks about self knowledge as if it was an abstract. I wasn't always a grown up. I had some spankings when I was little, and some hand slaps. It didn't traumatize me. There is a bond of care with good parents and they show so much love that a little hand slap is not some kind of huge big deal. It's not abuse. It's not rape. I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person. A hand slap, or spanking should never cause severe pain. If it does, THEN it's being done wrong. When done right, it is just a way to prevent a toddler from doing something he doesn't understand is dangerous again. You can't always reason with children who are too young to rationalize danger, but you can give a little hand slap or spanking to stop a child from doing something dangerous when they are about to. Then they relate that little spanking to the situation and don't do it again. Like running into traffic, or touching a stove top. It's not abuse. Abuse is very different, and associating abuse with something like a small, harmless handslap is wrong to do.

 

 

You might not have been traumatized, but others surely have. Doesn't it make more sense to condemn the practice as a whole, rather than leaving it to parents to do it 'the right way'? Surely, spanking is always awful, but in your lens, do you not feel slightly responsible for the parents who do it the 'wrong way'? Perpetuating this logic simply leaves it open to each parent to say, "well I' am doing it the right way.' What makes your right and wrong way of spanking more valid then the parent who spanks consistently every day? If that parent thinks atheism is dangerous, according to your logic they can simply spank it out of them to prevent future danger. Leaving it to subjective whim is the problem. There were times when many men surely agreed that beating women was a way to keep them from doing what they deemed as dangerous (adultery, etc.) We can wholeheartedly say that this is wrong, because we evaluate it with definitions and principles. 

 

 

[masonman]

I guess how does one really know if they're hitting a child the "right way"? What amount of force is the dividing line between "parenting" and "abuse"?

[Jose Perez]

 

I guess how does one really know if they're hitting a child the "right way"? What amount of force is the dividing line between "parenting" and "abuse"?

 

Which is exactly the same as discussing the dividing line between initiation of force and self defense with statists, or the effects of government regulations... don't you just wanna do it sooo bad! []

[MysterionMuffles]

 

I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person.

I return your argument.

If I slap you for making that argument, will you understand it is a type of loving discipline?  It shouldn't traumatize you.  I'll only slap you a little, it won't cause severe pain.  It will be an expression of my love for you as a fellow person.  We have a bond of care between us, so it's not some kind of huge deal.  I don't want to discipline you, but you don't seem to understand how much danger your argument puts you in.  Don't you see?  I need to slap you for your own good.  It doesn't mean you're any less of a person or that I don't like you.  It just means I cannot reason with your young mind (as it cannot rationalize danger), and you need to be slapped into not making this argument again.  It's not abuse. It's not assault or rape.  Associating assault with something like a small, harmless slap is wrong to do.

 

 

 

/thread

[Rick Horton]

 

 

I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person.

I return your argument.

If I slap you for making that argument, will you understand it is a type of loving discipline?  It shouldn't traumatize you.  I'll only slap you a little, it won't cause severe pain.  It will be an expression of my love for you as a fellow person.  We have a bond of care between us, so it's not some kind of huge deal.  I don't want to discipline you, but you don't seem to understand how much danger your argument puts you in.  Don't you see?  I need to slap you for your own good.  It doesn't mean you're any less of a person or that I don't like you.  It just means I cannot reason with your young mind (as it cannot rationalize danger), and you need to be slapped into not making this argument again.  It's not abuse. It's not assault or rape.  Associating assault with something like a small, harmless slap is wrong to do.

 

 

 

/thread

 

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents. You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents did. There is no understanding or relationship outside of this forum between you or I. You CANNOT take the parent out of the equation, and you can't put yourself in the role of a parent. You can't put me in the role of your child. These associasion games are stupid. If you can't understand why slapping wrists of your child, or spanking, is okay then don't spank. It's not abuse though. It's sick that you don't have an appreciation for what abuse, "really" is.  But don't put yourself between a family, because you're supposed to be an anarchist, not a statist, although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either. 

[nathanm]

Acknowledging that something is wrong does not mean that one must abandon the gradations within.  It's entirely possible to accept spanking as wrong and still not equate it with murder and genocide.  Once you make the binary choice you still get your gradient.  If you hit your kid just once in his or her entire life it doesn't mean you are wholly evil, but simply accept that it was wrong to do.  It might be small, it might be insignificant, it might be forgotten, it might be remembered…none of that really matters.  By accepting something as morally wrong or right, regardless of degree, you at least know in what direction to take your future behavior.

[MysterionMuffles]

 

 

 

I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person.

I return your argument.

If I slap you for making that argument, will you understand it is a type of loving discipline?  It shouldn't traumatize you.  I'll only slap you a little, it won't cause severe pain.  It will be an expression of my love for you as a fellow person.  We have a bond of care between us, so it's not some kind of huge deal.  I don't want to discipline you, but you don't seem to understand how much danger your argument puts you in.  Don't you see?  I need to slap you for your own good.  It doesn't mean you're any less of a person or that I don't like you.  It just means I cannot reason with your young mind (as it cannot rationalize danger), and you need to be slapped into not making this argument again.  It's not abuse. It's not assault or rape.  Associating assault with something like a small, harmless slap is wrong to do.

 

 

 

/thread

 

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents. You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents did. There is no understanding or relationship outside of this forum between you or I. You CANNOT take the parent out of the equation, and you can't put yourself in the role of a parent. You can't put me in the role of your child. These associasion games are stupid. If you can't understand why slapping wrists of your child, or spanking, is okay then don't spank. It's not abuse though. It's sick that you don't have an appreciation for what abuse, "really" is.  But don't put yourself between a family, because you're supposed to be an anarchist, not a statist, although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either. 

 

 

well judging by how hostile some of your posts can be, and how you have a knack for projecting your own passive agressiveness on other people (I've seen you do it twice by now)--it is clear to me now that your own physical damage as a child has had adverse affects on you to be as confrontational as you are right now. Despite of how well you try to defend your parents and justify their actions, you fail to recognize how much of your arguments actually have anything to do with what I've said or what Arius said, but much more to do with unloading your real pent up agression towards your parents for treating you the way you did, thus externalizing it on us anonymous internet folk.

But what do I know? Your parents did provide for you with all the things you listed, so I am not in the business of demonizing them, especially if my gripe is with you. Or should I say not you, but your continual ignoring of my base arguments--meanwhile all this time I have been adapting some of the reasoning your provided that has got me to second guess some of my own firm beliefs--you simply reject all that I say as false without considering any of it.

For instance you say that a simple hand slap is NOT abuse, and although I don't agree with you on that, it does let me consider if the extremity of physical pain caused CAN actually make the different between good parenting and abusive parenting.

All I'm trying to tell you is that although a hand slap isn't as bad as full out beating the shit out of a kid, it is still a violation of the child's sense of physical safety and comfort, and that of course does affect them mentally, whether they acknowledge it consciously or not. Is it so much for you to take that in consideration so that our argument can take on more progress, instead of circling back and forth to a dead horse you've beaten to a pulp?

Now I can't expect you to tell me I am right about anything I've said, especially since you do seem firm in your beliefs and I respect that, but I do wish you would at least consider some of the arguments I brought forth. Ya know, instead of writing them off as icky and gross because it makes you uncomfortable that I compare child abuse to adult rape.

[Rick Horton]

 

 

 

 

I know for me it was just a discipline tool. I never felt it to be a sign that I wasn't liked, loved, or that I was less of a person.

I return your argument.

If I slap you for making that argument, will you understand it is a type of loving discipline?  It shouldn't traumatize you.  I'll only slap you a little, it won't cause severe pain.  It will be an expression of my love for you as a fellow person.  We have a bond of care between us, so it's not some kind of huge deal.  I don't want to discipline you, but you don't seem to understand how much danger your argument puts you in.  Don't you see?  I need to slap you for your own good.  It doesn't mean you're any less of a person or that I don't like you.  It just means I cannot reason with your young mind (as it cannot rationalize danger), and you need to be slapped into not making this argument again.  It's not abuse. It's not assault or rape.  Associating assault with something like a small, harmless slap is wrong to do.

 

 

 

/thread

 

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents. You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents did. There is no understanding or relationship outside of this forum between you or I. You CANNOT take the parent out of the equation, and you can't put yourself in the role of a parent. You can't put me in the role of your child. These associasion games are stupid. If you can't understand why slapping wrists of your child, or spanking, is okay then don't spank. It's not abuse though. It's sick that you don't have an appreciation for what abuse, "really" is.  But don't put yourself between a family, because you're supposed to be an anarchist, not a statist, although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either. 

 

 

well judging by how hostile some of your posts can be, and how you have a knack for projecting your own passive agressiveness on other people (I've seen you do it twice by now)--it is clear to me now that your own physical damage as a child has had adverse affects on you to be as confrontational as you are right now. Despite of how well you try to defend your parents and justify their actions, you fail to recognize how much of your arguments actually have anything to do with what I've said or what Arius said, but much more to do with unloading your real pent up agression towards your parents for treating you the way you did, thus externalizing it on us anonymous internet folk.

But what do I know? Your parents did provide for you with all the things you listed, so I am not in the business of demonizing them, especially if my gripe is with you. Or should I say not you, but your continual ignoring of my base arguments--meanwhile all this time I have been adapting some of the reasoning your provided that has got me to second guess some of my own firm beliefs--you simply reject all that I say as false without considering any of it.

For instance you say that a simple hand slap is NOT abuse, and although I don't agree with you on that, it does let me consider if the extremity of physical pain caused CAN actually make the different between good parenting and abusive parenting.

All I'm trying to tell you is that although a hand slap isn't as bad as full out beating the shit out of a kid, it is still a violation of the child's sense of physical safety and comfort, and that of course does affect them mentally, whether they acknowledge it consciously or not. Is it so much for you to take that in consideration so that our argument can take on more progress, instead of circling back and forth to a dead horse you've beaten to a pulp?

Now I can't expect you to tell me I am right about anything I've said, especially since you do seem firm in your beliefs and I respect that, but I do wish you would at least consider some of the arguments I brought forth. Ya know, instead of writing them off as icky and gross because it makes you uncomfortable that I compare child abuse to adult rape.

 

^^Passive aggressive post.^^

[MysterionMuffles]

case in point. If I was being passive agressive, I'd be dismissing all of your arguments as stupid and false. Did you not read the rest of my comment? Were you instantly offended from my first paragraph? Honestly, how does one so stuck up as you end up in a forum that promotes rational thinking? Makes no sense to me.

[Rick Horton]

 

case in point. If I was being passive agressive, I'd be dismissing all of your arguments as stupid and false. Did you not read the rest of my comment? Were you instantly offended from my first paragraph? Honestly, how does one so stuck up as you end up in a forum that promotes rational thinking? Makes no sense to me.

 

^^^Passive aggressive, "and" insults....^^

[Rick Horton]

Look. I see right through all of your insults and passive aggressiveness. I'm just going to give fair warning that if you want to keep heading down that route, I will not be passive aggressive. I'll straight out make it honest and we'll just have a real knock down drag out cut down match. Is that what you want, because I'm about to change it into that if you don't quit behaving like this. I don't need anybody's permission but my own to go that angle with you if you keep going, so I'm giving you fair warning that if you do this passive aggressive thing again, the reaction will be your cause. I really don't come here to hear passive aggressive dudes grow balls from behind computers and feel that I somehow should just take it without paying you back, and then some... You want to talk about issues, fine, but you want to exhault yourself above me,  I won't pretend not to notice.

[Arius]

You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay
for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my
head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm
sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents
did.

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents.

although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either.

I return your definitions.

Parents (noun):

1. People who buy you clothes, feed you, put a roof over your head, throw you parties, transport you, provide you medical care, buy you ice cream, and use violence as a means of placing you at the bottom of an authoritarian power structure.

2. People against whom you cannot physically defend yourself.

3. Administrators of a welfare state

Family (noun):

1. An organization with rules and procedures which supersede all other authority.

2. A welfare state

[Rick Horton]

 

You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay
for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my
head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm
sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents
did.

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents.

although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either.

I return your definitions.

Parents (noun):

1. People who buy you clothes, feed you, put a roof over your head, throw you parties, transport you, provide you medical care, buy you ice cream, and use violence as a means of placing you at the bottom of an authoritarian power structure.

2. People against whom you cannot physically defend yourself.

3. Administrators of a welfare state

Family (noun):

1. An organization with rules and procedures which supersede all other authority.

2. A welfare state

 

I won't pretend to find the sense in whatever this was supposed to mean.

[J Ham]

I have yet to see you respond to the question of how one determines what is the 'right' way of spanking and the 'wrong' way of spanking, or why your judgement on this is any more valid than the shmuck who spanks his kids every day.

You don't even need to worry about that pretzel if you just condemn it as wrong and violent from the beginning.

[masonman]

 

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents. You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents did. There is no understanding or relationship outside of this forum between you or I. You CANNOT take the parent out of the equation, and you can't put yourself in the role of a parent. You can't put me in the role of your child. These associasion games are stupid. If you can't understand why slapping wrists of your child, or spanking, is okay then don't spank. It's not abuse though. It's sick that you don't have an appreciation for what abuse, "really" is.  But don't put yourself between a family, because you're supposed to be an anarchist, not a statist, although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either. 

 

How is the argument that being the parent of the victim reverses morality when it comes to hitting children any different from the argument that putting on a blue costume reverses morality when it comes to kidnapping and assaulting innocent people?

Also why is it more ok for somebody whom you love and trust implicitly to hit you - somebody you would expect to be even more kind to you than most people - than somebody who you barely know?

[Kevin Beal]

 

 

You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay
for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my
head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm
sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents
did.

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents.

although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either.

I return your definitions.

Parents (noun):

1. People who buy you clothes, feed you, put a roof over your head, throw you parties, transport you, provide you medical care, buy you ice cream, and use violence as a means of placing you at the bottom of an authoritarian power structure.

2. People against whom you cannot physically defend yourself.

3. Administrators of a welfare state

Family (noun):

1. An organization with rules and procedures which supersede all other authority.

2. A welfare state

 

I won't pretend to find the sense in whatever this was supposed to mean.

 

^^^ Passive aggressive post ^^^

[MysterionMuffles]

 

Look. I see right through all of your insults and passive aggressiveness. I'm just going to give fair warning that if you want to keep heading down that route, I will not be passive aggressive. I'll straight out make it honest and we'll just have a real knock down drag out cut down match. Is that what you want, because I'm about to change it into that if you don't quit behaving like this. I don't need anybody's permission but my own to go that angle with you if you keep going, so I'm giving you fair warning that if you do this passive aggressive thing again, the reaction will be your cause. I really don't come here to hear passive aggressive dudes grow balls from behind computers and feel that I somehow should just take it without paying you back, and then some... You want to talk about issues, fine, but you want to exhault yourself above me,  I won't pretend not to notice.

 

Um...ok? I feel horribly threatened, disrespected, and confused now.

[Jose Perez]

[MysterionMuffles]

 

 

LOL what the? who are these guys?

[Jose Perez]

 

 

 

LOL what the? who are these guys?

 

The Mothers

[Rick Horton]

 

 

If you slapped me, I'd kick your ass, but you aren't my parents. You don't have any bond with me, you don't pay for the clothes I wear, and you don't feed me, or put a roof over my head, throw me birthday parties, take me to school, care for me when I'm sick, take me for Icecream, and all of the other things my parents did. There is no understanding or relationship outside of this forum between you or I. You CANNOT take the parent out of the equation, and you can't put yourself in the role of a parent. You can't put me in the role of your child. These associasion games are stupid. If you can't understand why slapping wrists of your child, or spanking, is okay then don't spank. It's not abuse though. It's sick that you don't have an appreciation for what abuse, "really" is.  But don't put yourself between a family, because you're supposed to be an anarchist, not a statist, although in my family a statist has no authority to involve themself in how we do things in it, either. 

 

How is the argument that being the parent of the victim reverses morality when it comes to hitting children any different from the argument that putting on a blue costume reverses morality when it comes to kidnapping and assaulting innocent people?

Also why is it more ok for somebody whom you love and trust implicitly to hit you - somebody you would expect to be even more kind to you than most people - than somebody who you barely know?

 

Let me ask you a question, since I've been fielding all of the questions so far. Why do you think parents ever started spanking their children in the first place?