The Sandy Hook Actors Part 1

[David L]

The Sandy Hook Actors  Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_b9hh2lp3I

What do people think?

[pretzelogik]

I have yet to see any video of the survivors or anyone associated with this event that displays emotions that are characteristic of my experience of grief, or aligns with what I have noticed others displaying under similar circumstances.  I have attended quite a few funerals and memorial services having been the technical director of a church for a number of years and these interviews do not mesh with my experience of survivors.

[Summerstone]

 

I have yet to see any video of the survivors or anyone associated with this event that displays emotions that are characteristic of my experience of grief, or aligns with what I have noticed others displaying under similar circumstances.  I have attended quite a few funerals and memorial services having been the technical director of a church for a number of years and these interviews do not mesh with my experience of survivors.

 

If I were deeply dissociated and had just been through a terrible tragedy, my numbing protectors would be going full-force. Being on camera would not be a safe place for me to express my true emotions, especially if I were being prodded by TV producers to stay away from taboo subjects (such as gun control). Beyond this, America has a deeply vain and grandiose culture where instant gratification has become the norm. For some people, being on national TV and talking to celebrity journalists would be quite gratifying to those vain and grandiose parts.

[vze57564]

That was one of the first videos i saw when I looked into this mess.  Truly none of the parents shown there are truly grieving in spite of the fact that they lost kids.  The first moments of the video look like the guy is getting into character.  The smiles, the deep breaths and when he talks, it sounds like he is reading from a prepared statement he memorized.

 

After the intersecting deals of conflicting testimony, links for crisis actors that specialize in this kind of thing and the general agenda the news has to disinform those who watch at the behest of its paymaster(s), I could at least say the possibility exists that this was a manufactured event with an ulterior motive.  To wit, that motive is unknown to me, but it seems they are moving to take guns, but even then, there is the possibility that confiscation is just an opening move for something else entirely.  

 

I can never condone violence, much less if it so happens that an event like this was manufactured.  It hits me with the same suspicion I feel about 9/11 and generally helps in the case that innocent civilians will be sacrificed to achieve some sort of greater end.  If that is in fact the case, then those people truly responsible for this kind of event are perhaps some of the most cunning, ruthless and evil individuals one would have encountered.  Nothing on this scale is ever done by accident or haphazardly, and they get it down to the detail.  Moreover, I am not sure what would possess someone to do this kind of thing either.

[sg12]

Do not use this information to argue against civilian disarmament proponents. They will call you conspiracy theorists, and they will use your beliefs against you. Again this is itself a false flag. They will use your argument that the events at Sandy Hook aren't real against you. Please if you care about Gun Rights. Stay on facts that can be proven. Please Please Please. These people are evil and dangerous. They made this obvious on purpose. Please wait stay on facts. Do not distribute this video. Wait until next year. Please Please Please. Give these statements to everyone.

[sg12]

David!!! Thank you so much for posting this here though. Call into Stefs show next Sunday. Call into Alex Jones show Monday. Tell him not to use this information. Please. I am taking off work to call in. I will try to be the first caller. These people are using a duel false flag.

[sg12]

This is the false flag that can create the civil war. People who watch Youtube vs people who watch mainstream news. They will never ever air this on mainstream news. Remember some people won't change their minds and only respond to emotional arguments. They will demonize you with this video. Thank you for posting this here. Everyone on FDR needs to know this. Email Stef too. I am now.

[Lowe D]

They all seem real to me.

[pretzelogik]

 

They made this obvious on purpose. Please wait stay on facts. Do not distribute this video. Wait until next year. Please Please Please. Give these statements to everyone.

 

Just curious what the reference to "obvious on purpose" means. Who are "they"?

As far as facts go, every fact that has been reported, contradicts most of the statements made by the survivors, which contradict each other, with a final story emerging from the media which seems to be an impressionistic agenda more than a report on facts.

What is going to happen next year?

 

[sg12]

It doesn't matter whether its actually fake or real. Some people will believe its fake. Some people will believe it is real. Don't joke around about this. Look at the youtube comments. If you want to stop a civil war. Don't use distribute this video wait. These people are trying to divide and conquer. We are winning the information war. Look at the youtube comments now. Sign on and reply to people who think its fake with my statement below:

Do not use this information to argue against civilian disarmament proponents. They will call you conspiracy theorists, and they will use your beliefs against you. Again this is itself a false flag. They will use your argument that the events at Sandy Hook aren't real against you. Please if you care about Gun Rights. Stay on facts that can be proven. Please Please Please. These people are evil and dangerous. They made this obvious on purpose. Please wait stay on facts.

[sg12]

 

They made this obvious on purpose. Please wait stay on facts. Do not distribute this video. Wait until next year. Please Please Please. Give these statements to everyone.

 

Just curious what the reference to "obvious on purpose" means. Who are "they"?

As far as facts go, every fact that has been reported, contradicts most of the statements made by the survivors, which contradict each other, with a final story emerging from the media which seems to be an impressionistic agenda more than a report on facts.

What is going to happen next year?

 

Again. Think about this as if you were evil and wanted to kill everyone and control the world. Think about the power alex jones and the liberty movement has right now. Why would Piers Morgan humiliate himself on TV over and over again? Do not distribute this video. Tell your friends in FDR only about this duel false flag. No one else will understand. Reply to the youtube vidoes now. We need surgeons not philosophers pronto. Cure this now. No time for prevention at this moment.

[pretzelogik]

I think keeping a lid on this one may be a bit tougher than you hope, there are quite a few videos and sites devoted to this topic besides this one. 

As far as Alex Jones, why are you confident that he is a supporter of liberty?

I would still appreciate your thoughts on why "they" made this "obvious on purpose".

 

 

[sg12]

"obvious on purpose" to conspiracy theorists who take any little thing and make a big deal out of it. Like Alex Jones. But on this one he needs to keep his fucking mouth closed. Excuse my french...

[sg12]

The anger against evil is why I know Alex Jones is a supporter of freedom. He's had Stef on before.

Watch here

&

I bet he could get on again.

[sg12]

Alex didn't fall for it. Sympathies for the victims of the tragedy. Say this over and over again. Thank goodness!!!

[masonman]

Everything is a bloody conspiracy around here.....

[sg12]

Clarify, what do you mean by everything? And how do you define conspiracy? I agree that many plans are thought out before being implemented by sometimes more than one person.

[masonman]

Its fine to look into these events and try to find out what happened, but right off the bat this thread was doing what often frustrates me about stuff like this - people make a hypothesis and then take anything they find to mean that their hypothesis is right. People don't look to be crying the "correct way"? Clearly paid actors.

 

Not exactly scientific or objective.

[sg12]

Agreed not scientific or objective at all.

[pretzelogik]

 

Its fine to look into these events and try to find out what happened, but right off the bat this thread was doing what often frustrates me about stuff like this - people make a hypothesis and then take anything they find to mean that their hypothesis is right. People don't look to be crying the "correct way"? Clearly paid actors.

 

Not exactly scientific or objective.

 

Mainstream news peddles conclusions and agendas, it does not disseminate facts.  when questions are raised about the implausible and unsubstantiated claims made by the media, they are accused of being conspiracy theorists.

The idea that a gangly, reticent, mentally unstable youth absconded with some  unverified variety of weapons, all purchsed within the last 2 years and waltzed into a school, induced 26 fatalities firing a rounds with near 100% accuracy at a rate of one per second, leaving only one casualty, while wearing body armor yet immediately committed suicide after hearing police sirens while wearing ear plugs, well...it may sound somewhat implausible to say the least.

 Of course, if Anderson Cooper says that's what happened it must be true.

 

[sg12]

No one who's mind needs to be changed will believe you. This is a distraction. Warn people that civilian disarmament will cause a civil war. Sandy Hook is a fucking distraction. It only matters to people who already believe that gun rights are important. People who already know that governments are capable of doing this already agree that the 2nd amendment is important. MANY people will not be capable of changing their mind based upon facts let alone conjecture like this conspiracy even if it makes a little sense. Don't focus on this. Focus on gun rights and stopping the civil war. Stay on provable facts: The naivete of the nature of evil will destroy all that is good left in this country. Criminals can be elected. Governments are corruptible. The 2nd amendment is important.

PS. I know this is cure not prevention. But I think keeping things peaceful is important for our movement. Argue based upon facts. Government and violence are bad!

[Nathan]

Speaking of emotional honesty, this thread is really disappointing and upsetting to me.

[sg12]

What particularly is making you feel disappointed and upset? I too have a similar feeling but more so of sadness and anger at the entire situation.

[Nathan]

This is all nonsense, crazy conspiracy theory stuff, similar to claims made about other shootings and attacks including 9/11. Alex Jones is at the head of all this, which lends a negative amount of credibility to it all.

Frankly, not only is it all really very insulting to the victims of this shooter, but it's embarrassing. This is a philosophy site where people are supposed to learn how to think rationally, not get dragged into paranoid delusions.  Lately, I've had little inclination to point people to this site, for fear they'll find the message board.

[sg12]

Understandable. Do you know the best way to deal with paranoia and fear? And understanding whether that fear is rational or irrational? It is very hard for me to discern.

[pretzelogik]

 

This is all nonsense, crazy conspiracy theory stuff, similar to claims made about other shootings and attacks including 9/11. Alex Jones is at the head of all this, which lends a negative amount of credibility to it all.

Frankly, not only is it all really very insulting to the victims of this shooter, but it's embarrassing. This is a philosophy site where people are supposed to learn how to think rationally, not get dragged into paranoid delusions.  Lately, I've had little inclination to point people to this site, for fear they'll find the message board.

 

Philosophy has been defined as the art of non-contradictory identification.  Media events such as this one and others mentioned above are rife with contradictions. Attempts to eliminate the contradictions by corroborating facts are labeled conspiracy theory, nonsense and the like.

What is it about major news outlets that hold such sway over the imagination that the mere idea of comparing their images and narratives against each other for consistency is considered embarrassing?  All the major outlets are controlled by a handful of corporations with deep ties to the military industrial complex and ownership interests in major movie production facilities as well.  We all know that government relies on murder to get the job done, why is it such a stretch to imagine they lie too?

[SteveRG1]

Judging whether a witness or family member's emotions are genuine on a TV interview is subjective. There are plenty of objective facts about this though that are fishy or don't add up, though.

Like relief fund websites being created several days before the actual event occurred....

http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html

I understand the skepticism about claims like this. On the one hand it seems so completely implausible to be able to manufacture such a widespread fraud, not to mention it's relatively inconsequential whether it was real or not. On the other hand, two plus two cannot equal 3.

 

[Andersfilosof]

To me it seems a bit strange that a family would agree to being on news that soon after having their son/daughter killed, but to say they are paid actors, while entirely possible, is too indiscernable to even qualify as a useful argument.

[pretzelogik]

Grammar, logic, rhetoric.  Who, what where, when.  What are the facts?  From my perspective, I have no knowledge of whether the places and people portayed in the media even exist.  I have a monitor and speakers that emit light and sounds, or in the case of print media, paper covered with ink.  There is no reason whatsoever to accept anything in the news at face value.

The facts of this story as they have been presented conflict with one another, the images conflict with one another, the narrative is implusible, if not downright fantastical and as such leaves much to be desired in terms of veracity.  Once these basic considerations are taken into account, other supporting evidence such as interviews becomes suspect.

I have no evidence that "news" is any different than other programming that is displayed on TV and other digital mediums, for example ScyFy's Eureka or Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  What is it about "news" that gives it credibility?

[lucytunes]

 

This is all nonsense, crazy conspiracy theory stuff, similar to claims made about other shootings and attacks including 9/11. Alex Jones is at the head of all this, which lends a negative amount of credibility to it all.

Frankly, not only is it all really very insulting to the victims of this shooter, but it's embarrassing. This is a philosophy site where people are supposed to learn how to think rationally, not get dragged into paranoid delusions.

I totally understand where you are coming from but to me this is equivalent to a teacher saying "I trained hard to become a qualified teacher so I could have profound and stimulating conversations with my enlightened students, not get dragged into answering their dumb-ass questions"

Don't you think it might be incumbent upon all critical thinkers to immerse themselves in these kinds of areas PRECISELY BECAUSE critical thinking appears to be somewhat lacking at times? Remember, if critical thinkers don't shine the light of reason onto these subjects then no one else will, and the social engineers will have won. They will KNOW that they can go full steam ahead with their favourite strategy using perception management, 'problem-reaction-solution', the Hegelian dialectic, manufactured (or overhyped) news stories/ talking ponts/ opinion pieces and other types of propaganda to steer society because they will know that most critical thinkers have made it their policy to stay away because they can't face getting involved in all the 'conspiracy theory' chatter.

Whatever the truth is about Sandy Hook I would bet money that a lot of red herrings have been deliberately put into place to lead researchers up the garden path, and a lot of people are deliberately putting out disinfo to create a kind of conspiracy theory rollercoaster ride which goes round and round and up and down until most sensible people say "OK that's it, I've had enough of this now..... I'm getting off!!!".

That seeems to be a major priority when it comes to these bizarre/ traumatising/ nonsensical/ politically loaded events: GET THE LEVEL HEADED CRITICAL THINKERS TO GIVE UP, WHILE ENCOURAGING THE HOT HEADED CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO ALL PILE IN AND DOMINATE PROCEEDINGS.

There might be an element of 'cry wolf' about it too. If events are 'spiced' with conspiracy bait and the conspiracy flames are then deliberatley fanned.... only for the whole thing to be eventually debunked, thus publically humiliating the 'conspiracy theorists' this will serve the 'criminal elite' well when they commit some future criminal conspiracy....... as soon as people start pointing to damning evidence or inconsistencies everyone will groan and say "Oh no, here we go again ..... not more crazy conspiracies....don't you guys ever learn?" 

The way I see it, before the information age (pre inernet, youtube, twitter, facebook etc) 'information control' tended to be more about limiting information, blocking information, suppressing information. Since that is not really possible anymore (what with the internet etc) the tactic has changed to just releasing a flood of disinfo, noise and nonsense into the mix instead.

There are two ways to stop a man getting free drinking water from his local stream. Damn the stream, or just dump sewage into it. Now that our stream (of information) has become a massive river they have switched from the damn strategy to sewage strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing bizarre events occuring which are specifically designed to f*** with our minds, create maximum confusion and division on the internet and in society as a whole.

Perhaps events like Sandy Hook are being already being deliberately exploited to create a kind of 'aversion therapy' for researching on the web. I myself have not really looked into this event actively, and the overwhelming feeling I had was "Oh god , I can't face wading through a whole bunch of poorly researched conspiracy stuff (well intentioned of not)" If we can be trained to feel that way about every major news event being used to justify changes in society then 'they' have won.

You mention 9/11.

9/11 is a perfect example of this kind of complex psychology in action. It is the 'Shakespeare' of psychological operations, and like Shakespeare it's been around for long enough that people have been able to study it in depth. The cover up of 9/11 was (and is) far more significant than the event itself (as discussed in depth 

). The event itself only needed to work on the day, but the cover up needs to work forever - or at least for a several decades, until the event has served it purpose, the official history books have been written and society has moved on (in the worst possible direction).

To date the 9/11 cover up has been so successful that we now have the incredible situation where the physical evidence relating to the WTC complex in NY has been gathered and published in the public domain for over a year and

(not a theory) proves beyond all doubt WHAT actually happened. (clue: not what we were told by the mainstream OR alternative media). No one has been able to refute this evidence (not a theory). Yet very few people will look at it because they either 'believe' the official story (jet fuel, collaspe) or they 'believe' the official coverup story (controlled emolition using thermite or mini nukes)......or they are just so sick of the endless bickering and nonsense coming from the 'conspiracy theory' scene that they don't want to think about 9/11 anymore (despite it still defining this age we find ourselves in). In every case the cover up / psyop has done its job.

Anything contrary to the official conspiracy theory (Bin Laden, jet fuel, collapsing towers) has been autmatically defined as a competing conspiracy theory - even when it is actually just hard evidence which no one has been able to refute and which contradicts ALL theories. Once again the coverup / psyop has worked.

And despite the shocking and literally civilization changing nature of this information (ie evidence, not theory) about 9/11 having been put out in the public domain for all to see, the average man on the street (and even the average '9/11 truther') has either not come across it, or if they have, they've been programmed to immediately dismiss it - despite the fact that it is 100% irrefutable (verifiable) evidence (not theory). It is the only evidence (not theory) to have been submitted legally by anyone. No one has refuted it. Yet the various competing conspiracy theories still get more attention. Again this proves that the cover up has worked. People care more about a bunch of competing theories than they do the hard evidence.

9/11 proves that, just as government education works.... just as relentless propaganda works..... so do sophisticated cover ups and psyops. Some people think government education fails, or government wellfare fails.....  but we know they work just fine, because we know what the true objective is (in simplistic terms: dumb down the population and get them dependent on government).

In the same way you seem to think 'conspiracy theories' (such as those related to 9/11) fail at their job of uncovering conspiracies. You automatically assume that was their original objective, just as one might automatically assume the objective of government education is to produce a highly intelligent, knowledgable population capable of critical thinking.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Here's another angle on it...

If someone believes that 'a government' (for all its flaws and failings) is fundamentally there to 'protect our rights' and 'help society' and that taxation is morally good (etc etc) then it's impossible to have a meaningful and rational discussion with them about the state.

In the same way, if someone believes the twin towers collapsed (for whatever reason) it is also impossible to have a meaningful and rational discussion about what happened in New York on 9/11.

People are kept from ever defining what a governmet actually is by the distraction of party politics. We are encouraged almost from birth to passionately debate WHICH TYPE of goverment is best for society from a (false) choice of two options (left vs right etc). We never start out by defining what a government actually is according to reason and evidence.

In the same way people have been kept from defining what actually happened on 9/11 by the distraction of competing 'conspiracy theories'. We have been encouraged from the day of 9/11 itself to passionately debate WHICH TYPE of conspiracy theory is most likely to be true from a (false) choice of two options (19 bad guys with box cutters vs inside job with controlled demolition). We never started out by defining what actually happened on that day according to reason and evidence.

Thanks to the cover up and psyop, the crime of 9/11 was never clearly defined to begin with, according to even the most basic physical evidence. This is absolutely incredible when you think about it. 9/11 will go down in history as the Trojan Horse of our age!

How can a government best protect our rights? ......... It can't because, by definition, the governemnt violates our rights.

Did jet fuel fires or thermite cause the twin towers to collapse? ........ Neither, because, by definition, twin towers did not collapse, they

Competing conspiracy theories were put in place from the start - just like competing political parties - to stop us from starting out with basic empirical observations and basic definitions.

Most people think they know what a government is just as most people think they know what happened on 9/11. If you try to show them that a government is 'a monopoly on the legal right to initiate force' or that the twin towers 'turned to dust in mid air' they will probably look at you like you're babbling nonsense - even though you're being completely rational and empirical. Both these assertions can be backed up by reason and all available evidence and are impossible to refute. Does this mean people can be easily de-programmed of their fraudulent and irrational beliefs regarding government or 9/11? Hell no!

Propaganda, perception management and psychological operations work!

People tend to think the actual crime or 'event' matters the most and that what happens on the internet or in the media afterwards is less important, but I'd argue the opposite is true. The 9/11 event killed 3000 people, but the 9/11 cover up has resulted in millions of deaths, massive environmental and financial devastation and the erosion of freedoms and liberties around the world. The cover up is infinately more terrible a crime than the event itself. The cover up of 9/11 (which FWIW involves all the main players of the so called '9/11 truth movement' and so called 'alternative media') was finally exposed last year and is set to explode this year. It may never be possible (or necessary) to prove who the perpetrators of 9/11 were (I for one don't have the foggiest idea!) but it certainly can be proved who has gone out of their way to help cover the crime up. And like I said, the cover up is far more of a crime than the event itself in terms of sheer death and destruction. And the value in learning how we were decieved is far greater than the value gained by stringing up a bunch of evil criminals.

In this sense the quagmire of 'internet research' and 'conspiracy culture' is perhaps one of the toughest environments in the known universe to test your own critical faculties and commitment to reason and evidence. The amount of disinfo, misdirection, hostility, deceit and just plain 'white noise' the net is absolutely insane!

BUT.......  if you study the cover up of 9/11 for long enough you will eventually begin to see how cover ups work and 'perception management' operations and you'll be able to apply this knowledge (this template) to other bizarre, improbable, traumatising and politically loaded events which also dominate the news and provide a chance for major policy changes to occur as if by natural processes...

You'll understand why there is so much 'conspiracy nonsense', bickering, infightning, name calling, ridiculous theories and general 'noise' on the net. It's deliberatly put there to muddle everything up, provide false choices and deter well educated, rational, critically thinking types (such as yourself) from ever getting involved. And it's also put out there to infuse the whole concept of a 'conspiracy' with the same emotive, repulsive and ridiculous connotations that the word 'anarchy' has, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME teaching us that coming up with some random 'conspiracy theory' is the proper place to start when it comes to investiging these kinds of events.

First they train us to be fools, then they punish us for being fools. That is one of the favourite strategies of the ruling classes and power 'elite', it's what keeps them in power.

We all know there is this thing called 'potential for knowledge' and 'potential for intellectual prowess'...... and then there is this other thing called 'the government education system'. The true potential for knowledge and critical prowess is far greater than what's on offer in schools, right? I'm sure you are aware of that, and I'm sure you are only aware of that because you've managed to somehow 'break through' the jumbled up, tedious, embarrassing, demoralising, stupid, nonsensical, contradictory, immature, backward AND DELIBERATELY DUMBED DOWN quagmire that is 'government education' (and higher education).

Had you NOT broken through 'government education' you'd probably just think school was a tiresome experience and so was 'learning stuff' (the two would be one and the same in your mind).

And so just as government education is the quagmire we must cross in order to reach our true intellectual and knowledge potential, it's also true that the world of conspiracy theories is also a quagmire which we must cross if we are to get any kind of clear view of these bizarre and traumatic events which keep being used to justify unpleasant changes in society.

In both cases you have to rise above and beyond the nonsense which is on offer and the only way to do it is through the uphill and often lonely process of self educating. It is not achieved by just walking away because it's too messy. To dismiss conspiracies so casually because of 'conspiracy theorists' and 'conspiracy theory culture' is like dismissing education because of government schooling and school culture.

One of the central messages promoted by 'conspiracy theory culture' is that the truth can never be known (the truth can never be discerned through gathering evidence and applying reason to it). Instead, conspiracy culture teaches that the truth is merely a strongly held 'belief' which is either the result of speculation or is supplied by some self proclaimed authority figure or group or just by overwhelming 'consenses opinion'.

This makes 'conspiracy theorists' no different to statists or any other cult-like group. Statists are just conspiracy theorists who like to pick on the small guy. Let's not forget that statists are by far the biggest and most destructive group of conspiracy theory believers out there. The conspiracy theories they've believed in and promoted have been used to justify the most hideous crimes of this century, from the Nazi holocaust to the genocide in Iraq.

I've never seen the millions of conspiracy theorists who 'believed' the THEORY that Saddam was CONSPIRING with his military to manufacture WMD's being condemned, ridiculed or shunned because of their unfounded and hugely destructive conspiracy beliefs.

To question and dig deeper into bizarre, improbable, nonsensical and politically charged events like Sandy Hook is absolutely the right thing to do. I would argue it is the moral thing to do. And if you see that people aren't doing a very good job of questioning or researching these events critically and rationally then that is a reason to help them do a better job of it, if only by constructively pointing out where they are messing up. 

Creating an 'us vs them' mindset serves nobody but the ruleing classes/ social engineers. As has already been pointed out in this thread, part of the agenda is to use conspiracy theories to create division in society (divide and rule). As people move away from strong political allegencies and organised religions the ruling classes need to encourage us to bicker and waste time and energy over other types of strong and divisive belief. I predict that beliefs centred around 'conspiracy theories' will be increasingly encourgaed and used to this effect.........  Gotta keep everyone divided, distracted and at each other's throats all the time!  

When philosophy and morality is reduced to (party) politics we can discuss and argue all we like without threatening the power structure. And in the same way when criminal behaviour by the elite establishment and ruling classes (and yes that includes conspiracy) is reduced to 'conspiracy theory beliefs', again, we can bicker and argue all we like and we are no threat to anyone but ourselves.

So anyway that was my honest and friendly criticism of your slightly negative/ hostile/ impatient attitude.... it's not that I think your attitude is 'wrong' per se.... I just think it's based on a false (or rather a short sighted) premise.

(my first post on FDR for a while.... obviously making up for lost time LOL ........ went on a bit there, sorry!)

[masonman]

Do you have anything that doesn't rely on Judy Wood's interpretation of 9/11?

To question and dig deeper into bizarre, improbable, nonsensical and politically charged events like Sandy Hook is absolutely the right thing to do.

If you want to, go right ahead, the problem is that most conspiracy theorists just jump to conclusions. They take what information they know and just try quite hard to make it fit their theory. Its quite irresponsible. They just REALLY REALLY want their theory to be true.

This is on the same intellectual level as believing God MUST exist because your toast had Jesus' face on it this morning.

I sometimes think that the reason the theorists want all these terrible events to be top-secret, pre-planned, and brought on through months of discussion in dark, smoky rooms, is because they just don't want to accept the idea that such a terrible thing could happen for no rational reason

It goes something like "oh God.... all those children.... why would somebody do such a thing.... there must be a reason...... oh, look, these people crying in interviews don't look very genuine, they might be faking it. I've never used a firearm before but I think somebody would need 5 years of Navy SEALS tactical training to be able to shoot 20 six-year-olds in such a short amount of time. Clearly its a top-secret plot."

They should do their investigation, but they should do it correctly, not jump to conclusions, and if they don't produce any real solid evidence that isn't just making massive assumptions from news footage, there really isn't a reason to believe the hypothesis being brought forth.

The idea that a gangly, reticent, mentally unstable youth absconded with some unverified variety of weapons, all purchsed within the last 2 years and waltzed into a school, induced 26 fatalities firing a rounds with near 100% accuracy at a rate of one per second, leaving only one casualty, while wearing body armor yet immediately committed suicide after hearing police sirens while wearing ear plugs, well...it may sound somewhat implausible to say the least.

 Of course, if Anderson Cooper says that's what happened it must be true.

Have you ever used a weapon before? Shooting defenseless people at close range hardly requires top notch shooting skills.

This post just screams to me "this is my evidence for the conclusions I already made"

You say body armor but no official inventory has been released yet. He may have been wearing body armor, or not, but thus far its only some news outlets telling us that he wore it.

Furthermore, these shootings remind me just how uneducated people are about weapons and tactical equipment. People have also been throwing around the "assault weapons" term without knowing what it means at all. Newspeople call pretty much any rifle (like an AR-15 or an SKS) an "assault weapon." Which is completely wrong. So its not entirely crazy to think that MAYBE they were confusing a load bearing vest with bullet proof vest. I'm not saying they did, however they do tend to misreport these things on a regular basis because they are completely incompetent when it comes to weapons and equipment relating to weapons.

This is a bullet proof vest, that can stop small caliber low velocity bullets at longer ranges:

This is a load-bearing cross draw vest, which doesn't protect you from anything:

At a distance, with all your equipment expertise, would you be able to tell the difference?

 

Also, body armor doesn't make you invincible. A rifle will pierce through most body armor like its a t-shirt, and at close range a pistol will also pierce most kinds.

[pretzelogik]

I appreciate Lucytunes tying this event to 9/11, they are inextricably linked.  I have drawn different conclusions about 9/11, namely that the video evidence pesented as "live" footage was constructed in advance of the event  as type of Hollywood studio simulation and cannot be taken as evidence to support or debunk any theory as it is false. 

All the videos aired on television are archived at Archive.org in the 9/11 section and anyone can visit that site and verify for themselves that the videos conflict with themselves and therefore cannot be depictions of real events.  The events pictured were physical impossibilities.   Not to mention obvious evidence of layering and compositing, easily demonstrated.  This is the only real evidence available to everyone where 9/11 is concerned and in my opinion, the real story of that day.  9/11 was primarily a media creation.  Yes, the towers were brought down, likey with controlled demolition behind a military grade smoke obscurant, in the most reliable and time tested way possible.  Occam's razor.

Once one has verified for themselves, not through theory, but unassailable proof that the media is responsible for creating events (as News Corporation states plainly that it does) all other events are immediately suspect.

As far as the Sandy Hook thing goes, there are many more reasons to doubt the story than to accept it.  Mason-killer points to confirmation bias for pointing out the implausibility of the story while at the same time accepting the story at face value. 

Perhaps it is easy to shoot large numbers of people at close range, if they are sitting still, or are they in a closet?  Or are they running to safety to be taken in by a creepy old man?  Or shot while they are running?  Or being protected by on or two teachers, or the principal and psychologist who are running toward the gunman as opposed to away after they heard the tumultuous hail of bullets blasting through the front door?  Wait a minute, the police scanner said this whole event was over in ten minutes, with suspects proned out outside the building in handcuffs.  The aerial photos show no cars or activity.  Why did everyone go to the firehouse?  Why was the trauma center set up off site?  Why were the bodies kept for an extended period of time in the building?  Where are the shell casings?  Blown out doors?

This story has more holes in it Rachel Maddow's Rush Limbaugh dartboard.

Like I said:  Anderson Cooper said it, I believe it, that's all there is to it.

But, like everyone is wont to complain about here, regarding liberty and the state, people are not persuaded by facts.  Not here, not anywhere.

[masonman]

I think no amount of evidence would change what you believe about these events

[pretzelogik]

What do you mean when you say evidence?

[masonman]

I mean no amount of physical objects, witness testimony, photographs, videos, scientific reports, etc. would change your mind. Its quite easy to just claim all that was faked as well.