Why do we actually "have to" do things this way or another...

[Pacal_II]

So my friend recently added an question on facebook, I'm pretty sure before I became a voluntaryist I would of considered it childish or naive, but now I really wonder what is the answer to it. So I translated it into english and here it goes;

Why do we actually "have to" do things this way or another, becaue "we have to, it seems appropriate"? Why do we automatically adjust to other peoples expectacions? Why do others impose on us, our priorities, how to live, how to be gain succes, if and how many children we should have, if we should have a family? Why do we all stereotypically have to finish as regular empoyees, with a an official and "stiff" work, whose peak of relaxation is sitting in front of the tv for a couple of minutes. Why do we all have to be the same? Why do we give ourselves limits for our age and period of life. Why are dreams treated as madness. If it will always be like that, so I want to be mad!

So this is more or less what he posted. I wouldn't use the word "have to" as much as he does, because society doesn't force us to conform, but it does tell us to. And we are tought, especially in school to conform. So... what do you think would be the answer to these questions?

[Marc Moini]

Hi Pacal_II,

I believe you don't have to, it's only if you want. It's your life, no one else's. I think we don't even have to eat, it's a choice we make if we want to stay alive. If you feel pressure to do what others tell you (or what you think they want you to do), I suggest looking into what doing this brings you. Here's the framework I find most useful for thinking about this, because it explains the fundamental human needs we are all trying to satisfy every second of our life:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+Basics+of+Non+Violent+Communication

The meaning of "needs" here is completely different from anything else I am aware of elsewhere, such as needs as described in PET (parent effectiveness training). Please let me know if this helps or not.

Best wishes,

Marc

[cherapple]

Good question. We "have to" because it allows other people to remain comfortable doing what they believe they "have to" do. Other people want us to conform, so that they don't have to question their own conformity. When someone does what they want to do, instead of what they are told they have to do, it raises everything into question for everyone around them, and most people prefer to avoid that anxiety.

[TheRobin]

Some parts of sociate do force us to conform. School, parents (if they're authoritarian). I wouldn't call that simply "telling us to". As it literlly implies force of one way or another.

As for "answering" the questions, I wouldn't try to answer them, but here's a response: Usually when people ask that many questions, they aren't really curious but more expressing their feeligns in the form of rhetorical questions. A lot of these questions simply have an underlying implication of an experience of "how things are" and a negative emotional conenction to them.your friend seems to be very angry and seems to have a feeling of powerlessness and a general "pointlessness of it all" (not sure how to best phrase that) and rightfully so. But what he describes isn't "how life is" but how he was actually treated by the people in his life so far (and especially while he grew up and couldn't change his situation).So trying to talk to him from a perspective of "answering the questions" won't help him, I think. What would help him (assuming the right circumstances) would probably be to stop depersonalizing his experience and as a consequence of that stop distancing himself from his own experience. Getting back to where the hurt occured and was felt and feel it again so to really understand what actually happened in his history and not surpress it or project it the world as a whole.Regardless of that, he has my deepest sympathies for being in the place he is now. And I wish him the best of success in fighting his way through it

[Pacal_II]

 

Hi Pacal_II,

I believe you don't have to, it's only if you want. It's your life, no one else's. I think we don't even have to eat, it's a choice we make if we want to stay alive. If you feel pressure to do what others tell you (or what you think they want you to do), I suggest looking into what doing this brings you. Here's the framework I find most useful for thinking about this, because it explains the fundamental human needs we are all trying to satisfy every second of our life:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+Basics+of+Non+Violent+Communication

The meaning of "needs" here is completely different from anything else I am aware of elsewhere, such as needs as described in PET (parent effectiveness training). Please let me know if this helps or not.

Best wishes,

Marc

 

Sure, I know we don't have, but that's not exactly my question. It's not "Why do we have to conform?", it's "Why do others want us to conform?"

But thanks for the film anyway, I'll be sure to watch it.

[Rick Horton]

The moral reason to treat people is the way that you would like to be treated. That's it... Of course, if you enjoy being beaten, raped, stolen from, threatened with murder, cheated on, etc... then by all means treat others that way too.. Most people don't like that treatment and have a sense of sympathy for other people because they understand that others probably feel like they do. 

[Marc Moini]

 

Sure, I know we don't have, but that's not exactly my question. It's not "Why do we have to conform?", it's "Why do others want us to conform?"

But thanks for the film anyway, I'll be sure to watch it.

 

 

Hi Pacal_II,

Oh OK, I understand your question better now, thanks for explaining. Similar to what cherapple wrote, my guess is that others want us to conform as a way of coping with the uncomfortable knowledge that they are conforming while they would prefer not to. I believe we all have a need for autonomy, and we feel frustrated when this need is not satisfied, such as when we conform to external standards when they don't align with our fundamental human needs (http://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory). When I used to feel this pressure to conform but I didn't see a way to not submit to it, it was tempting to try to reduce my frustration by making myself believe that I had no choice. And when somebody would do something proving that the choice does exist, I would feel scared and I would attack them, in order to force them to conform and thus show both them and myself that there is no choice, we all have to conform.

I do hope you'll find the film useful, it took me many months but it's what allowed me to learn a new way of thinking that does let me see how to not conform while feeling satisfied at the same time.

Does this help?

Best wishes,

Marc

 

[STer]

As with most things I don't think there is just one answer to this. Different people do it for different reasons. And not everyone does do it.

One level to look at is personality types. Some of the types are more freewheeling and actually support people going out of the box. Others are very traditional and conventional.

Another aspect is projection. That's where what Cher said comes in. If the person themselves is angry for conforming but represses it, then they may project that onto you.

Another aspect is simply honest fear for the other person. Many parents, for instance, realize that we really do live in a world full of consequences for not conforming and don't wish their child to suffer those consequences. Some may realize that a certain percentage who take risks succeed in doing something out of the ordinary, but also realize many fail and don't want their child to take that risk.

Then there are those who directly benefit from people staying in the box, such as traditional employers that need a conventional workforce to run their businesses.

Biology may even come into play here. I just saw another study yesterday on the differences in brain function during risk assessment in people of different political stripes. So some people may even be wired to find unconventional things threatening or scary.

And I bet there are even more perpsectives involved. Since social order depends on most people staying in line, you can bet there are many many layers that go into how that is reinforced.