Kody Palmer Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Is Using Recreational Drugs Unethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Molyneux Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Define 'ethics'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Interesting would be if you included an interpretation of the non-agression principle where harming yourself (your future self for example) was immoral. Under such an interpretation, Recreational drug use would be immoral. But so would most fast food. This exercise shows that it is difficult to define Recreational Drug use as Unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Horton Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 It depends on what group of people you are seeking approval from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kody Palmer Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ethics meaning Let's say those modes of thought that lead toTruth. I mean can recreational drug use have any legitimate place in an ethical life. Not like I'm 70 years old I'm gonna go smoke crack cause I always wanted to know what it felt like. Is it possible to say smoke marijuana and not have it interfere negatively with the pursuit of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endostate Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Is Using Recreational Drugs Unethical? Which ones? Keep in mind that alcohol, caffeine and nicotine are recreational drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kody Palmer Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 it was my understanding after reading the book in the realm of lonely ghosts that the chemical or activity it self isn't what gets them addicted it is their prior symptoms of childhood abuse. But at the same time other activities like gambling, shopping, etc. can be addictions. Is it a drug's capacity to incite addiction that causes it to be "unethical," Can some drugs be considered unethical while others are ethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kody Palmer Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Can someone who is hoooked on caffeine ethically say to someone else that is hoooked on heroin that his behavior is unethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRobin Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Without getting into the "ethic" debate.My own experience with heavy marijuana usage and addiction was that I got out of it (and completely lost interst in it) as a result of gaining self-knowledge and examining the reason for my usage etc.), so in that sense, I don't think it will inherently disturb your search for truth, but at some point you'll naturally land at a point where you'll want to question your use (imo) and it will solve itself that way.Also when I got to that point and as a result stopped smoking weed the whole time I hardly had any withdrawal symptoms either (whereas before it'd often try to stop and then start again, and then stop again, start again etc.) and I'm really one (or used to be) for heavy withrawal symptoms in that regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kody Palmer Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Thanks, I'm pretty much at that point I believe, or at least almost. I'm struggling phychologically beucase I went from knowing all the supposed "pros" of weed and how it shouldn't be illgegal and that the argument from legality was incorrect ( I actually live in the state of washington where it is legal, at least on the state level). I also have back pain and was able to get a prescription card but I have come to the conclusion that it isn't really medicine any more then TV watching is. Then I read the book Stef recommended about how Most Addicts problems can be traced back to their childhoods. I never felt more alive than when I was high. I felt and feel normal. It interferes with my parenting which tears me up the most. I feel like I'm so close to the break through that it's just wrong but I can't quite make the jump. I feel like I just read Ayn Rand but hadn't been exposed to Anarchistm or Voluntyrism. Anywyays thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kody Palmer Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 MY bad about the mis use of the word ethics in this post, I have the internal struggle in my head on to use or not to use and I consider this an ethical struggle, but maybe it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Horton Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 There's all kinds of reasons to use drugs. I don't think they are necessarily a bad thing to use, and if you can be responsible to yourself they can be benefitial if you enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Horton Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Can someone who is hoooked on caffeine ethically say to someone else that is hoooked on heroin that his behavior is unethical? They can, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractional slacker Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Can someone who is hoooked on caffeine ethically say to someone else that is hoooked on heroin that his behavior is unethical? They can, yes. And maintain credibility? If yes, can you explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Horton Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Can someone who is hoooked on caffeine ethically say to someone else that is hoooked on heroin that his behavior is unethical? They can, yes. And maintain credibility? If yes, can you explain? If the person hooked on caffeine can live ethically while being addicted, but the person in particular (not every heroin addict) is so addicted that it causes him to start stealing to get his fix then the caffeine addict can say the heroin addicts behavior is unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractional slacker Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 So the argument from effect. I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepin Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Without getting into the "ethic" debate.My own experience with heavy marijuana usage and addiction was that I got out of it (and completely lost interst in it) as a result of gaining self-knowledge and examining the reason for my usage etc.), so in that sense, I don't think it will inherently disturb your search for truth, but at some point you'll naturally land at a point where you'll want to question your use (imo) and it will solve itself that way.Also when I got to that point and as a result stopped smoking weed the whole time I hardly had any withdrawal symptoms either (whereas before it'd often try to stop and then start again, and then stop again, start again etc.) and I'm really one (or used to be) for heavy withrawal symptoms in that regards. I would certainly agree with this. I started using weed initially because I didn't understand it and was curious as to the experiance. My childhood bias was to isolate from partly due to kids always making fun of my speech impediment, and the only people I could tolerate talking to were good teachers who were able to interpret what I was saying and responded to what I was saying in a way that made sense to me. This is only to say I didn't do it for other people and it was something I put a lot of thougt into. I actually wrote a paper for English class in 10th grade, and I didn't try it for another year and a half. I intially started self medicating with it after becoming educated about the drug. I was pretty good with not abusing it until I got into college, which is when constant psuedo seizures occured due to stress. The anti seizure medication did and didn't help. I stopped for a while, and then started smoking a half a week, which was far too much money. It sounds weird, but realizing why I was smoking so much helps with the cure. If anyone is going through something similar, I would suggest a doing a self rtr. Be honest with yourself, and do the research. Badically: think before you act. The last thing you want to have happen is for unresolved childhood shit to get loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowkey Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 To quote Lysander Spooner, vices are not crimes. It may be a misguided choice but it is nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I would add that it does not even have to be a matter of decriminalizing vice, simply a matter of consistency and truth. To pull a very relevant quote from Mr. Spooner: "The vices of other men we will punish; but our own vices nobody shall punish? We will restrain other men from seeking their own happiness, according to their own notions of it; but nobody shall restrain us from seeking our own happiness, according to our own notions of it? We will restrain other men from acquiring any experimental knowledge of what is conducive or necessary, to their own happiness; but nobody shall restrain us from acquiring an experimental knowledge of what is conducive or necessary to our own happiness?" Prohibition = Power. It's that simple. Complicating the matter with personal viewpoints, religious (im)morality, sympathy for the "public" welfare, or any other misdirection of the issue amounts to another simple concept: LYING. (The politically correct term may be: fallacious reasoning, but at times I become unsympathetic. Lying is lying.) Anyone who believes they have any right to tell another person how to act, think, or feel, is a proponent of force and coercion. That said, I would advise anyone to avoid the use of "mind-altering" substances, but I would never assume the mantle of arrogance required to forbid it. "There is no stronger drug than reality." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magentawave Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Maybe I'm wrong but I have always defined ethics as being the same as morality. Define 'ethics'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sapantaa Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Iv used a few of those drugs listed in the second charts, and there is no way in hell Cannabis is more harmful to your self then ecstasy. I'v done so much ecstasy ( not saying im proud of it I actually kinda hate it ) that my inner voice is nothing but a whisper. While smoking cannabis for a year prior with no negtive effects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Just my two cents. I assume there is a general human tendency towards drug use, as it's done in all cultures that have drugs that I know of. Instead of incarcerating people and forcing users into an unsafe black market with dangerous substances one could have research into safer drugs and safer routes of administrations by ending state prohibition and handing over the industry to regular non-criminal companies, drying up the organized crime aspect of the business and protecting consumers and society at large. The present situation is like people drinking moonshine from the black market and funding organized crime in the process, instead of regular brew produced by professionals (not that that isn't also harmful when drunk in excess) and like throwing alcoholics in jail, imo. On a side note, in my experience a lot of the state propaganda (like "not even once" etc.) is really dubious at best. There is no drug that is immediately addictive that I know of and most are only really dangerous used chronically or acutely overdosed and overdosing is a direct result of murky black market products whose purities the consumers can only guesstimate as a result of state prohibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Oh, and of course there should be self-ownership of one's own body and one should be able to choose what to ingest, if one wants to argue from morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreDeadMan Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I believe that a person who is addicted to any drug be it the so called "legal" ones (caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, etc...) or the so called "illegal" ones (heroin, pcp, marijuana. lsd, etc...) is trivial if they are not initiating force against anyone or their property. Once he/she initiates force against anyone or their property then it is immoral on or off the drug. Certainly I'd like to see people see things through sober eyes rather than be caught up in drug addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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