jgabios Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Hi all, Here is the video: What Stefan talks here about the most efficient way to turn the society away from statism, and that is that we should use the argument of morality, and implement the non-violence priciple in our lives. This way, everybody will see how great it is to live in freedom. 2 more notes from the talk that will sustain my question below: 1. Stefan says that, in a discussion with a pro-war guy, he would ask him: "Do you allow me to differ?" and, when the guy says "Yes.", Stefan would decide not to pay the taxes that sustain the war in order to act on his anti-war beliefs. 2. In the QA section, a guy asks him on the second stage of the "showing off like a free man". I couldn't hear well, but I guess that what he meant was how to implement that in a more concrete way in real life. And Stefan replies by his notorious argument that teaching the next generation a non-violent way of life will transform the society into a libertarian one. I never hear him say that we should not pay taxes, and promote that in his speeches. In my opinion that is a very effective way of ending a statist society. And not only taxes, but in every aspect of life to be a pain in the ass for the state, and oppose his violent actions. In the speech, he also pictures a libertarian like a tree, well rooted, that makes the world go around him and not abdicate from his principles. Well, what kind of libertarian, passes off this conflict to the next generation, instead of him doing his part? What I am actually asking is that: "How come I never heard of any libertarian put in prison for not paying taxes?". Is it ok to comply and pay taxes? Maybe only for some time until things get a better turn for us? He might have spoken on these issues in other podcasts or speeches, if so, and you know, please reply with any links you might have in this direction. Any feedback is most appreciated, thanks in advance
lyghtningrod Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 What I am actually asking is that: "How come I never heard of any libertarian put in prison for not paying taxes?". Is it ok to comply and pay taxes? Maybe only for some time until things get a better turn for us? He might have spoken on these issues in other podcasts or speeches, if so, and you know, please reply with any links you might have in this direction. Any feedback is most appreciated, thanks in advance I was just reading about Irving Schiff and Larken Rose, so I wouldn't say there are no libertarian types taking a stand. The attitude I have to paying taxes is I want to avoid jail, and government has better weaponry than I do. I view taxes as tribute paid to Caesar. I don't like it, but until there are enough people willing to take that stand it is a classic prisoner's dilema. If only one stands, he is cut down. If all stand, the regime falls.
jgabios Posted March 11, 2013 Author Posted March 11, 2013 Thanks for the info, I didn't know about them. And it seems there are more. However, there is little mention of them in the libertarian media. That is too bad. In a speech about how to be more efficient about removing the state from society [stefan reached a good conclusion, acting on your libertarian morality in real life] , a credit to Schiff and Rose would have been appropriate, as they did this long before Stefan discovered the best way to achieve the goal. Stefan mentions religion as employing the argument of morality with great success. Related to this, I would say that Schiff and Rose are our "martyrs", fighting for the cause. "The attitude I have to paying taxes is I want to avoid jail, and government has better weaponry than I do." Indeed, that's what I keep telling myself too, and that being in jail keeps me from taking care of my family, though it doesn't make me feel any better. Does anyone else know of other "lines" that can help ease the pain that comes from living differently than you think you should ?[/font]
PatrickC Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Does anyone else know of other "lines" that can help ease the pain that comes from living differently than you think you should ? Yes I can sympathise with how you feel about this. The trouble with not paying taxes is twofold, well threefold actually, as you guys have already mentioned about prison. Firstly withholding taxes never reduces govt spending, since they can get any revenue deficit from their central bank. Taxes are just a way of keeping govt spending well-oiled and keeping inflation down to a minimum. Secondly most people consider tax evaders as criminals. Whilst you and I might consider Larken to be a martyr, most people will consider him as a petty criminal or at the very least a fool for getting caught. Any way you try and cut it, paying taxes as the world stands now is really our only rational choice. I have heard of some innovative agora economies in the US which sound very interesting. But I have to say that any success they have now is because nobody really cares about it. However, if those economies flourished at all within the current climate, then you can guarantee the jackboot of the state would pounce down on them eventually. It would all be justified and the innocents will be described like all felons are described (WACO style).
Recommended Posts