Phil Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 Hi, I've been observing this whole issue from the sidelines for a couple of years. I started out as a classical libertarian in my youth in the 1990s and since listening to a number of Stefs podcasts back in 2006 shortly after he started fdr I converted to anarchism and have basically supported statelessness as an ideal since. Of course things can change pretty quickly, like in the case of monarchies in Europe losing power or formerly communist states changing, but in both cases you had widespread popular support to get rid of feudalism and communism. In the case of anarchy I don't know a single person in real life who supports it and quite to the contrary many, if not most people seem to even support a further expansion of state powers, both when it seems to suit their narrow self interests by getting more out of the state and even as a general theory of supposedly creating more "social justice", "regulating the economy", "protecting the environment" and all the other great goals statists want to achieve with more state power. The only anarchists and libertarians I have "met" have been online, while in real life the vast majority of people seem to support the existance of a massive state (in Europe at least, I live in Germany). In such a situation how can there be any hope of even seeing the state reduced in our lifetimes? I mean even if there was some great event that might for the moment overwhelm the existing state some other forced collective structures would presumably take its place right away, like after the collapse of nazism or communism.
cherapple Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 Hi, Phil. I greatly sympathize with your experience of feeling like a lone anarchist imid a sea of statists. It is a very difficult and lonely existence at times. I'm wondering why you want everyone else to change. You are free to live your life as an anarchist right now, regardless of what anyone else is choosing to do. Instead of waiting for others to be an example for you, if that's what you're doing, can you be an example for the statists of what's possible?
Phil Posted April 14, 2013 Author Posted April 14, 2013 Hi, Phil. I greatly sympathize with your experience of feeling like a lone anarchist imid a sea of statists. It is a very difficult and lonely existence at times. I'm wondering why you want everyone else to change. You are free to live your life as an anarchist right now, regardless of what anyone else is choosing to do. Instead of waiting for others to be an example for you, if that's what you're doing, can you be an example for the statists of what's possible? Personally I don't have it bad in the present system right now, I'm doing ok in the statist system, I'm just talking about the larger picture and a possible transition to a less statist society, since in many of his podcasts Stefan makes it seem like a stateless society seems to be in reach somehow. So I guess my point is that at present I just don't see that happening due to widespread attitudes in society and the short-term interests of many people at least seemingly aligned with the state.
ribuck Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 There's quite an interesting discussion of this at the Laissez Faire Book Club:What Does Liberty Really Mean to You? Near the end of the article, the author suggests seven questions that could be asked of the public. They are questions to which we all know the answers, and the answers show that society is not ready to embrace freedom yet. So the author concludes that we should seek to maximise our personal freedom, and not worry about how free the rest of society is. I think that's the only reasonable approach, and it matches the approach taken by Jake's very practical podcasts at The Voluntary Life. It's a fact of life that increased wealth brings increased freedom. Rich people can do things that poor people can't. It's wrong that this is the case, of course, but the wrong is caused by the statists, not by the voluntaryists. We need to live within the world as it is. Entrepreneurship and investment are ways toward achieving increased personal freedom. Attempting to change the whole of society is not.
Phil Posted April 14, 2013 Author Posted April 14, 2013 It's a fact of life that increased wealth brings increased freedom. Rich people can do things that poor people can't. Makes sense, there's also another approach to increase freedom I've tried. I've reduced my working position from full time to 3/4. So I'll probably not be rich and independent 20 years in the future, but my present income is still ok and I have a lot of free time NOW while I'm still quite young which I guess also increases personal freedom (like 17 weeks of holidays last year with still a reasonable middle class income).
Hugh Akston Posted April 24, 2013 Posted April 24, 2013 I think you might be wrong, there are a lot of anarchists out there. They just don't define themselves in this way. I was at the airport the other day and a guy approached me and asked me if I required a car. I was walked to the limo, the guy had an umbrella so I did not get wet walking to his very neat and luxurious vehicle. All this for the same price as the legally licensed taxis, that are deteriorating by the day. My daughter could not find any daycare (heavily regulated in this country) for my granddaughter, eventually found a lady who does a brilliant job and gets paid in cash. These people do not think of themselves as Anarchists but in reality they are more Anarchist than someone like me who espouse libertarian philosophies but do not engage in the free market (unless you consider selling my time to a big corporation as free market activity). A simple thing I can do to promote Anarchism is to provide word of mouth advertisment for these people's services to others who support my worldview and help these people avoid the risks associated with trying to promote their services.
Robert Stempien Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 I watched a Bryan Caplan speech once where he talked about public opinion and where it lines up with Libertarianism. According to his statistics things are not looking good, infact I got incredibly depressed as I watched it, the only Libertarian position people seem to be agreeing with is legalizing pot. Honestry, im hoping a bank run and currency collapse happens someday, and hopefully a Democrat will be in power, that way the blame will be laid squarely at socialism and central bankings feet.
Mario Dian Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 After watching Stefan's video ( ) I had this good feeling, that things are changing naturally. When you look at the numbers you can clearly see, that statism is falling under its violent and aggressive policies. Don't worry about it too much, just don't vote, try to obey paying taxes as much as you can, live your life and the rest will come
Formelyknown Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 [View:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAsTXtowZVQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player]
Brandon Buck _BB_ Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Rich people can do things that poor people can't. It's wrong that this is the case, of course~ How do you reason this?
prohexa Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Hi Phil, I know exactly how you feel, i think most of us feel that way from time to time. Thankfully I'm incredibly lucky to have a wonderful voluntarist girlfriend, but apart from her I too feel very isolated in society. The whole "how do we get to anarchy" issue used to bother me a lot too in the past, but one day it suddenly struck me: Anarchism is not the goal we should strive for - it's only the natural consequence of the way we live our lives and raise our children! When I realized this it was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. I don't know if this is an insight you have to reach by yourself, but at least for me it made life a lot easier...
Victor Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 I feel you... I think about it this way: if I had been born 200, 400, 600, 1000, 2000 years ago I would have looked at the world and I would have wept, just as much or more than I do now. Probably less than now as Google earth and the internet was not around for one to gain a global perspective, but still. The world has been a shitty place for a very long time. And it hurts because it's so easy and fun for it not to be so crappy. But the solution then and the solution now is the same; make it nice and fun now where you are, cause it ends briefly, and leave enough evidence for others to replicate what you do.
Brandon Buck _BB_ Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 I feel you... I think about it this way: if I had been born 200, 400, 600, 1000, 2000 years ago I would have looked at the world and I would have wept, just as much or more than I do now. Probably less than now as Google earth and the internet was not around for one to gain a global perspective, but still. The world has been a shitty place for a very long time. And it hurts because it's so easy and fun for it not to be so crappy. But the solution then and the solution now is the same; make it nice and fun now where you are, cause it ends briefly, and leave enough evidence for others to replicate what you do. You make a good point, as does prohexa. And while the world has always been shittier as we go back in time that also means that the world is getting better as time goes by. No doubt freedom won't happen in my lifetime and it really took me a long time to reconcile that fact. One thing that really helped was when my son and his wife announced that they are planning to have a child. Once that knowledge hit me it was like there was an entirely new and more wonderful purpose for my living as a peaceful man in such a violent world. Because it's not so much me that I'm helping. It's my son and his wife, their child(ren) and their children after. It's an awesome feeling to know that you are a part of something that is going to fundamentally change humanity for the better. I won't live to see a free society but I will spend my last days surrounded by free people. That will make me happy. []
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