ribuck Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Unfortunately, this part of the "world wide web" is not available outside of the United States. What did you think of it? Dayna discussed this a while back in an interview with Stefan, and it sounded really interesting.
Chaz Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Unfortunately, this part of the "world wide web" is not available outside of the United States. What did you think of it? Dayna discussed this a while back in an interview with Stefan, and it sounded really interesting. if you use Chrome or Firefox you can download mediahint from https://mediahint.com/, it works i watched the show in the uk. The show was rather lacking and covered so little, but you do get a sence that Danyna cares a lot about her children and that her children a strong independant human beings.
Guest NateC Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Hmm, ok, Hulu is the only place I could find it. I really enjoyed the episode, and how I wish I grew up in the Martin family. Some comments to the episode put forth that neither family was 100% right and that the "right" way was somewhere in the middle. Edit: The middle of authoritarian and freedom loving.
Clay Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 I enjoyed watching that. I love Dana and her philosophy on parenting. In contrast with the authoritarian mother from the other family, she and her family came across very happy and inspired. I liked how Dana was always eager to point out how cruel some of the other families rules were. She's pretty brave, and doesn't hold back at all when it comes to speaking her mind, even when the father was in the room with her. You can see how the children really appreciated the way she spoke to them like equal human beings, and how she apologized to them whenever she had to enforce one of the stupid authoritarian rules.... It was almost like they didn't know how to react to it, because they had never experienced it before. That made me sad. The other mother really made me angry. In particular, that part where Dana's son said the word "dam", in a casual conversation... and she basically said "if my kids were to curse, they're liable to get a smack in the mouth". Ugh... One thing that threw me a little off guard was when none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the "cycle" label on the dishwasher... that was disappointing to me. Other than that though, it was great.
cab21 Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 i feel this show does not show the whole picture with what was presented a middle way seems more right. it's hard to tell what is normal life and what is a act on a edited tv show i dont think people need to choose between freedom and cleanlyness, those can both go along well together, nor do parents have to be mean to make cleaning a important part of running ones life and household. clean with love.
Rob_Ilir Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 i feel this show does not show the whole picture Yes, I have not seen it, but I also feel that a the show is more for entertainment rather than education, and the editing crew are magical in most reality shows. So, it would be nice to hear from Dayna and her family of how good did they capture the couple of days down to 40 minutes. But as they say, any expossure is good expossure, and a big bravo to the Martin family, for showing a great alternative.
cab21 Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 it would be interesting to interview the martins on the expirence. watched some other episodes from the season, there is usally a middle that i think is good some of the stuff is crazy a few episodes are with religous families swaping with a family with a alturnative family structure. in one a guy starts reading leviticus about how homosexuals are against god, this guy has a tatoo, which the same book also says are against god.
Guest NateC Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 One thing that threw me a little off guard was when none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the "cycle" label on the dishwasher... that was disappointing to me. Why?
Clay Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 One thing that threw me a little off guard was when none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the "cycle" label on the dishwasher... that was disappointing to me. Why? I guess, just as a piece of anecdotal evidence, It doesn't make a good case for the educational benefits of unschooling....The opposite, really. A couple of her kids seemed pretty old to not be able to read such simple words, to me. I was pretty shocked by it... Reading is such an essential skill for learning, and it takes a good amount of time to develop. I don't have kids, but When/if I do I think I will make efforts to encourage an early interest in reading, so they start developing that skill at a young age. Some of my best and earliest memories of my mom are when she helped me learn to read story books before bed. I was way ahead of everyone in my school in reading ability by the time I started public school, and I've been devloping the skill ever since. I've always been thankful for that. So I guess that personal bias is part of why I was disappointed. Another reason I think I was a bit annoyed by Dana's kids lack of reading ability, is because I knew how authoritarian parents who watch the show will use that to confirm their bias against unschooling and peaceful parenting, kind of like how the other mother in the show did. She outright called it child abuse, which of course, is completely absurd, especially coming from someone who uses threats and coercion to control her own children. But yes, the fact that Dana's kids couldn't seem to read well, at all, was a bit disappointing and shocking to me. Am I alone in this? I hate to focus on this negative aspect of the show though, because I really love virtually everything about Dana's parenting style.
J-William Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Watching the other family walk in was great... the kids were just blown away. Dayna's family looks very stylish :-D
PatrickC Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 One thing that threw me a little off guard was when none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the "cycle" label on the dishwasher... I still struggle with those labels even at 44 []
ribuck Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Unfortunately, this part of the "world wide web" is not available outside of the United States. if you use Chrome or Firefox you can download mediahint from https://mediahint.com/, it works i watched the show in the uk. Thank you for that! It worked! It's a very touching moment at 26:00 when they hang up Nasha's art and her dad realises how wonderful his daughter is. Dayna is a wonderful person.
Nathan T_ Freeman Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 If you haven't watched it yet, you really should. There's some world-class philosophical parenting from the Sparkling Martins. Regarding Ivy not reading the dishwasher, how do you know she couldn't read it? What you know is that she couldn't respond to being ordered by a dominating stranger twice her size to read it. That's not the same as not being able to actually read it, any more than not being able to poop on demand shows that you don't have bowel movements.
Guest darkskyabove Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Regarding Ivy not reading the dishwasher, how do you know she couldn't read it? What you know is that she couldn't respond to being ordered by a dominating stranger twice her size to read it. That's not the same as not being able to actually read it, any more than not being able to poop on demand shows that you don't have bowel movements. I guess my preconceptions about how people should act are a valid definition of their actions. Wait a second, no, they're not.
Nathan T_ Freeman Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 *chuckle*Also, it was Tiffany, not Ivy, that was the victim of this particular tyranny.
Clay Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Regarding Ivy not reading the dishwasher, how do you know she couldn't read it? What you know is that she couldn't respond to being ordered by a dominating stranger twice her size to read it. That's not the same as not being able to actually read it, any more than not being able to poop on demand shows that you don't have bowel movements. That's a good point, and for some reason I hadn't really considered that.
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 That's not the same as not being able to actually read it, any more than not being able to poop on demand shows that you don't have bowel movements. That's a terrible analogy. The gut has evolved to accumulate waste and eliminate it from time to time, usually according to a daily biorhythm and not "on demand". On the other hand, once you've learned to read, it's not a cyclic phenomenon.
Nathan T_ Freeman Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 That's not the same as not being able to actually read it, any more than not being able to poop on demand shows that you don't have bowel movements. That's a terrible analogy. The gut has evolved to accumulate waste and eliminate it from time to time, usually according to a daily biorhythm and not "on demand". On the other hand, once you've learned to read, it's not a cyclic phenomenon. Then propose a better one. The underlying point is that what the viewer witnessed was not a girl who's unable to read but a girl who didn't provide a response when ordered to do so by a stranger.
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The underlying point is that what the viewer witnessed was not a girl who's unable to read but a girl who didn't provide a response when ordered to do so by a stranger. It looks to me as if she does attempt to provide a response to the dragonlady. It's pretty clear that her reading skills are limited. This surprised me. In a family where curiosity and learning are embraced, children generally teach themseleves to read fluently around the age of seven. I've seen this dozens of times, because my children and many of their friends went to a Steiner school where reading is not taught before seven. The father didn't strike me as particularly articulate (although one can't really tell just by watching a made-for-entertainment show). I wonder if he is a little insecure, and afraid of his children eclipsing him in reading and writing skills. I'm not worried for the children though, because I saw plenty of books in Dayna's house. In many ways, my own mother was like Dayna. She always treated us as fellow human beings, with respect rather than with anger or violence. But we did go to school. I don't think it ever occurred my parents, or to us (their children) that an alternative was possible. I didn't hear about home schooling until I was in my 30s, and I didn't hear about unschooling until I was in my 50s.
Guest NateC Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I don't understand all this fuss over reading. Is it not possible to live a happy, virtuous life without reading skills?
PatrickC Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I was listening to the latest schoolsucks podcast last night with Dayna. No access to the link as at work right now. But she was clear that Tif can and does read and had read one whole book since the show was recorded.
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Is it not possible to live a happy, virtuous life without reading skills? Sure it's possible, but reading and writing are mighty powerful tools.
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The father ... I wonder if he is a little insecure... After reading the Martin Family's blog, it's clear to me that my speculation about Joe (the father) is groundless, so please ignore that part of my earlier post. The blog is wonderful. She addresses so many topics! Here's the School Sucks interview with Dayna Martin about the Wife Swap show. She's happy with the Wife Swap show, and says it was fairly accurate. Apparently there were twelve film crew following them around all the time!
prohexa Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The other mother really made me angry. In particular, that part where Dana's son said the word "dam", in a casual conversation... and she basically said "if my kids were to curse, they're liable to get a smack in the mouth". I agree to the fullest. In particular as she herself kept screaming all kinds of profanities to Dayna's husband when she was "threatened" of having the blow horn she meant to use on the kids being used against herself. What an incredible hypocrite, my jaw just dropped to the floor. One thing that threw me a little off guard was when none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the "cycle" label on the dishwasher... that was disappointing to me. I'm totally with you on this one too, that was very surprising. While I fully believe in the unschooling philosophy, one cannot stress enough the importance of reading and writing. Think of all the wonderful books and stories they never got to know as younger children! Kids do learn from playing, but a lot of potential and inspiration in their play is lost from just not being able to read. Just think of all the wonderful books you (hopefully) read and loved as a kid, and how they brought new ideas and colours to your fantasies! Also, Dayna's children seem to frequently use the Internet for learning, but they can hardly tap the enourmous potential of it if they can't read. There is absolutely no need to "force" a child to learn to read and write, but there are a million ways to friendly encourage it from early on by simply showing them what a useful and exciting tool it really is. Books and stories are food for young minds! (And adults too!) I think the interesting question is why Dayna's children took so long to learn to read - in particluar since Dayna herself is an author. As we know, children take after their parents; they do what their parents do. Does that mean Dayna and her husband rarely read books themselves? Or what are your theories on this?
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I think the interesting question is why Dayna's children took so long to learn to read ... children take after their parents; they do what their parents do. Does that mean Dayna and her husband rarely read books themselves? I was also wondering about this, as you can see from my posts earlier in this thread. Dayna talked about this when she appeared on Stef's Sunday Call-in Show on 11 March (starting around 1:01:55). Dayna feels that "reading readiness" ranges from between 5 to 15 years, depending on the child. (I had internalised a single figure of "7 years" for reading readiness, but when I think about some of the slower readers at my school I now think they just weren't ready for it until their early teens.) Dayna says the peak "natural reading age" for a child is 11 or 12, so she wouldn't be bothered if some of her children aren't reading the dishwasher cycles yet. However, Dayna also says that her husband "hates books" and speculates that this may be because he was given a hard time about his reading ability at school. So maybe some of that rubbed off onto the children. One of the strongest motivators for a child wanting to read is when the child sees that their parents enjoy reading.
Nathan T_ Freeman Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Also, Dayna's children seem to frequently use the Internet for learning, but they can hardly tap the enourmous potential of it if they can't read. So what is it you think they're doing when they're using their iPad & other devices?
Guest darkskyabove Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Am I really reading posts that claim this girl can't read? Based on what evidence? One clip in a TV show? Oh, my bad, forgot I live in Jump-To-Conclusion Land.
ribuck Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Am I really reading posts that claim this girl can't read? Based on what evidence? One clip in a TV show? Oh, my bad, forgot I live in Jump-To-Conclusion Land. If you re-read the posts, you'll see that I said "It's pretty clear that her reading skills are limited" which is not the same as "this girl can't read". And CapitalistDog said "none of Dana's kids appeared to be able to read the 'cycle' label on the dishwasher", which is not the same as "this girl can't read". So, as you suspected, you are jumping to conclusions.
nathanm Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The video crapped out on me part way in for whatever reason, but reading the blog and listening to the interview on the School Sucks podcast was great. Extremely positive, envy-inducing family life they've got there. If the way to a better world means living by example I'd say the Martins are doing a helluva job. Sure, maybe it's hard to fathom such a lack of structure, but if more people took a few pages from their playbook the world would undoubtedly be a better place.
JohnDJasper Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 (Thanks to Chaz for the mediahint tip!) I got up to the second advert and it packed up on me but it's probably just as well because I couldn't fastforward through the "drill sergeant" bits. What I saw was enough to piss me off probably because it was too much like my childhood only it was my father who made it a living hell. My mother was strict but sane but when Dad was around, she wasn't strong enough to reign him in. I recognised too well, the room inspections, the lack of privacy, the lack of respect for the children as people and being kept on a tight leash. We couldn't even play in the front yard much less join the neighbours on the street or at their houses without specific permission until well into the teen years. We learned that we had to play very quietly so as not to get noticed because getting noticed meant being assigned jobs to do so that we weren't wasting time playing. And with free use of the belt, switch or bare-hand, it was a house without love and for the most part, without fond memories. Fortunately, I learned how to make a happy home for my girls and I'm pleased that, in their late 20s and up, they tell me they have such good memories of their childhoods. My wife taught all three girls to read before they started school. The eldest was an avid reader from that time and still is today. The other two could read but had little interest in reading for pleasure for most of their childhood. They were very active in sports and chose television and games to occupy their time otherwise. Somewhere along the way, they both caught the reading bug and are happily catching up on what they missed out on. All three graduated from University with excellent results so apparently no harm done! :o) There, that's my story!
Wesley Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 It was an amazing show, I was looking at an example of the unschooling lifestyle and I was very impressed with the Martins. I think her kids handled the situation amazingly well. Dana is really amazing, and while the people in the show may (always) film it with the thought that the truth was somewhere in the middle, they definitely seemed to slant it heavily toward Dana's side. I really enjoyed it.
Summerstone Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I appreciated the entertainment value of this. I wouldn't put tv cameras and a crazy drill sergeant lady around my kids. My hope is that the Martins really discussed this before going through with it. The Martins have one of the most lovely home lives I've seen.
Connor Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I really enjoyed this. I felt really envious of the freedom and authenticity the Martin kids et al lives with everyday.
Mick Bynes Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I watched it and I never watched Wife Swap before. I watched it, because I like Dayna Martin. I have tons of respect for that lady. It's sad that the family in California has such a strict mother. Dayna Martin is the total opposite of a strict mother and she's probably the greatest mother in the United States today.
Recommended Posts