FunFacts Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 If I'd shifted to a mostly vegetarian diet a year ago, then discovered a cancer; I'd think twice about the diet. I don't know anything; nor will I defend any idea in the article linked below. Just adding this curiosity to the forum. I hope Stef gets 110% better ASAP. http://www.bulletproofexec.com/steve-jobs-dr-dean-ornish-and-vegetarian-cancer/
SimonF Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 A vegetarian diet could still include a lot of cancer promoting animal products and excessive fat, alcohol is bad news too. It's not just correlation research either, there are now plenty of plausible explanations for how animal products promote cancer.Also wishing for Stefan to make a full and speedy recovery. [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3yp0oTd1YA] [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTIrmOdmil4] [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayuVb9-nFVo] [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxl21OBsbM] [View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxl21OBsbM]
ribuck Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 If I'd shifted to a mostly vegetarian diet a year ago, then discovered a cancer; I'd think twice about the diet. I'm sure Stef did many things a year ago, not just eating less meat. Statistically, a vegetarian diet is associated with above-average lifespan.
norpan Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Of course, it's almost always not possible to identify a specific cause in a single case. A vegetarian diet per se should not be a problem However, it is well established[citation needed] that most cancer cells use glucose as fuel, and that seems to be why low-carb diets or plain fasting can cause cancers to dissapear. It's a bit harder to go low-carb on vegetarian food, although not impossible of course. You have soy, nuts, dairy and eggs (depending on what kind of vegetarian regime you follow). Fasting and/or a low carb diet is an easy thing to try and will not do you any harm. And it might actually make you better!
tastemaker Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Of course, it's almost always not possible to identify a specific cause in a single case. A vegetarian diet per se should not be a problem However, it is well established[citation needed] that most cancer cells use glucose as fuel, and that seems to be why low-carb diets or plain fasting can cause cancers to dissapear. It's a bit harder to go low-carb on vegetarian food, although not impossible of course. You have soy, nuts, dairy and eggs (depending on what kind of vegetarian regime you follow). Fasting and/or a low carb diet is an easy thing to try and will not do you any harm. And it might actually make you better! Though it is true that cancer uses glucose as its primary fuel, so do all other cells in the body. It's not possible to starve cancer cells without starving the others. Cancer thrives in a low oxygen environment. Eating a diet low in carbs and high in fats reduces the oxygen content in the blood and tissues, creating an ideal environment for cancer to flourish (source: Dr. Douglas N. Graham). According to this, the trick is to keep the oxygen content in the blood high so as to make the body inhospitable to cancer. There can be many diet, environmental, and genetic factors that can lead to cancer, so prevention is better than cure. But once cancer is already there, it's a sticky game. Do you starve all your cells through fasting and hope you kill the cancer before you kill yourself (or damage other areas of the body)? Do you try to eat the highest carb, lowest fat diet you can in the hopes that you will not feed the cancer, but instead raise the oxygen levels enough to kill the cancer? It is important to analyze the diet and environment from all angles. If your cancer is caused by smoking, eating all the simple carbs in the world to raise the oxygen level in the body might not do anything if you refuse to quit smoking. I wish I could say there were a way to find a clear answer here, but I don't see how moving further away from a plant-based diet will help. As far as cancer or any of the top killers in society, it appears that plant based diets have significantly lower death rates (See Dr. Gregor's presentation ).
SimonF Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 However, it is well established[citation needed] that most cancer cells use glucose as fuel, and that seems to be why low-carb diets or plain fasting can cause cancers to dissapear. This idea seems to stem from a single study in mice* that's been blown out of all proportions by low-carb fanatics. *http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/news/archive/cancernews/2011-06-17-Too-soon-to-say-whether-low-carb-diet-can-prevent-cancer-or-slow-tumour-growth-
mythness Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 However, it is well established[citation needed] that most cancer cells use glucose as fuel [...] Not trying to start a debate or derail the thread, but from what I've read and listened to, cancer cells will break up proteins into amino acids, then convert the amino acids into glucose, and finally burn this glucose inefficiently with glycolysis, mostly bypassing mitochondrial respiration. Due to this inefficient burning of energy and rapid replication, cancer cells theoretically give off more heat (hence the up-and-coming use of non-invasive thermography to detect cancer.) This is all done in addition to burning off glucose directly. In both cases, the mitochondria is mostly bypassed, and the end-product is lactic acid instead of carbon dioxide. I could be mistaken, though. More importantly, and nothing else matters... Stef! You are the most inspirational person in my life, hands down. You may think you know how much you've helped and changed people's lives for the better, but let me tell you that you are wrong. Whatever benefit you may think you've given to society, multiply it by 100! Now you're got a more accurate answer. Before I even joined these message boards, I was changed by your writings and podcasts. I practically did not exist from your point of view. Trust me, there's a lot of people who you've helped that simply haven't voiced their gratitude to you directly. I.... CANNOT... THANK... YOU... ENOUGH! All the best, Stef! All the best!
matthewhocking Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Statistically, a vegetarian diet is associated with above-average lifespan. but its not controlled. vegetarians also dont smoke as much, dont drink as much, do more exercise, eat more whole foods compared to the rest of the population who eat generally highly processed foods with grains and starches & sugar being very high. all the best to stef, his throat is very important [] A vegetarian diet could still include a lot of cancer promoting animal products and excessive fat, alcohol is bad news too. It's not just correlation research either, there are now plenty of plausible explanations for how animal products promote cancer. every food has carcinogens in them. there is NOT 1 food we eat that doesnt have some chemicel in it that doesnt have carcinogen qualitys in large doses. its the dose.
norpan Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 This idea seems to stem from a single study in mice* that's been blown out of all proportions by low-carb fanatics. Well, I'm not trying to blow anything out of proportion of course. There are a few trials going to establish this more clearly. I'm just saying it's something to try for yourself if you want. Low carb/fasting seems to help the body heal itself in many other instances (diabetes and obesity), so why not here? I read about this recently and here is a review of studies so far. And low carb is perfectly feasible, even on a vegetarian diet.
SimonF Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 but its not controlled. vegetarians also dont smoke as much, dont drink as much, do more exercise, eat more whole foods compared to the rest of the population who eat generally highly processed foods with grains and starches & sugar being very high. It's true that vegetarians do usually have a healthier lifestyle than the general population. Studies of Seventh Day Adventists attempt to resolve this by comparing within a homogenous population other than members being either vegetarian or meat eating. The SDA population has effectively 0 incidence of smoking and very little consumption of alcohol too. In SDA populations the vegetarians still outlive the meat eaters by 3 or 4 years on average and have lower levels of morbidity. A vegetarian diet could still include a lot of cancer promoting animal products and excessive fat, alcohol is bad news too. It's not just correlation research either, there are now plenty of plausible explanations for how animal products promote cancer. every food has carcinogens in them Really, I'd like to see the data behind this claim. . there is NOT 1 food we eat that doesnt have some chemicel in it that doesnt have carcinogen qualitys in large doses. its the dose. We don't just eat the individual chemicals in food though, we tend to eat the whole food or all of the food processed in some way or other. And the facts remain that some foods contain more potent carcinogens than others, and that plant food consumption is negatively associated with cancer risk.
matthewhocking Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 It's true that vegetarians do usually have a healthier lifestyle than the general population. Studies of Seventh Day Adventists attempt to resolve this by comparing within a homogenous population other than members being either vegetarian or meat eating. The SDA population has effectively 0 incidence of smoking and very little consumption of alcohol too. In SDA populations the vegetarians still outlive the meat eaters by 3 or 4 years on average and have lower levels of morbidity. can you link to this study, and can you confirm that it wasnt performed by a SDA member? seeing as SDA's prophet was told by god that vegatarisiam is the propper diet, and near all studies conducted on the SDA community have been done by SDA members. the athiest in me wounders... Really, I'd like to see the data behind this claim. go test your drinking water, you will find trace amounts of lead & arcenic and probally hundreds of other harmful chemicals. but its nothing to fear, its the does that matters and that plant food consumption is negatively associated with cancer risk. just not in a controlled study.
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