Stark2081 Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Stefan, I'm sure you have already started to get questions about this, and I'm sure everytime there is some event, you get asked your thoughts on it. Well, this is no different. I figure you have heard about Adam Kokesh planning to march around Washington DC with loaded weapons. I was wondering what your take on it was. I myself see it as a good thing, but, I can also see where this could turn ugly. I am confident that if it does go south, it will not be started by the protestors. I am also struggling with the idea of going myself. If this does end up being a historic event, I would love to be able to say I was there. At the same time, if it goes south, I don't want to be another body on the ground. Please give me your perspective on the whole thing. I want to make sure that whatever I decide, I have properly weighed the options. Thank you so much, and glad to hear your treatments are going smoothly. I feel very strongly that you are one of if not THE most important public figure alive.
PatrickC Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I felt very uneasy about this march for Adam. Given the recent debate about guns in the US. It sems this march could further fuel the idea that libertarians are just gun slinging nutjobs. Not that that necessarily matters of course, having a potentially deadly confrontation with the state does I think. Whatever you choose to do, be careful.
nathanm Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Displays of weaponry by individuals is only symbolic, as it is impossible to win if the police and military choose to attack you. You'll be dead, maybe some of the cops will be dead, but the government isn't going to give up after the bloodbath. I don't know at what level of citizen armament would genuinely worry those in power\military leaders, but I have to assume it would need to be WAY more than what we have now. No amount of fighting is going to convert the minds of those who desire to dominate other humans. Besides, you're just baiting them. They would be prefectly happy to get in a firefight. That's their entire job, what they train for, what they can't wait to happen in the midst of an otherwise dull day of waiting around. The SWAT guy doesn't give a fuck about making the world a more civilized place, he just wonders when he'll get to use all his badass gear and badass training to kill someone and 'be a hero'. That's not the sort of person who is going to be receptive to any fancy notions of gun ownership and liberty.
Kawlinz Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I felt very uneasy about this march for Adam. Given the recent debate about guns in the US. It sems this march could further fuel the idea that libertarians are just gun slinging nutjobs. Not that that necessarily matters of course, having a potentially deadly confrontation with the state does I think. Whatever you choose to do, be careful. I'm more thinking that provocateurs could join the group and just start firing guns to scare people or worse.
PatrickC Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I felt very uneasy about this march for Adam. Given the recent debate about guns in the US. It sems this march could further fuel the idea that libertarians are just gun slinging nutjobs. Not that that necessarily matters of course, having a potentially deadly confrontation with the state does I think. Whatever you choose to do, be careful. I'm more thinking that provocateurs could join the group and just start firing guns to scare people or worse. Yes, that's entirely possible, but I think that would only be likely to happen if they felt this movement was getting any significant public support that was a serious threat to its power. I think the state probably knows how the general public will view this march. Still, as mentioned still very risky for seemingly not much reward.
Stark2081 Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 There has been support shown from all over the world, including Egypt and other unnamed arab countries. I'm sure that will be spun in the "right" direction. The coverage by the mainstream media has been inaccurate to say the least. This is suppose to be peaceful. Yes, they will have loaded weapons, but they are to be slung on their backs with hands well away from the triggers. Adam has said if they are met with physical resistance to peacefully submit to arrest. The point being to illustrate the blattent disregard for not only the constitution, but also the right of every person to be capable of defending themselves. I think there will be a resinating affect no matter what happens. I just hope it remains peaceful, even if there are arrests. I see this as more of a protest on control than guns. The guns are just there to get everyone's attention. That's just how I see it.
PatrickC Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Hey Tony, I was wondering whether you had had anymore thoughts as to why you feel ambivilent about going, if you wanted to share.
mikrob Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I respect Adams boldness but this is a bad idea because he has no control over it. It only takes one hot-headed libertarian to do something violent which will smear the whole movement.
Stark2081 Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 The decision whether or not to go has a few challenges. First off are the logistics: having the money to drive out there, and getting the time off work. If that is taken care of, the concurn I have after that is trying to calculate the odds of things going badly. I would rather live for a cause than be killed for it. Once dead you are either a martyr or you're forgotten. Neither one suits me.I know there are those that would call that cowardly, but, how much courage does a corpse need? I think living to see it through requires more bravery. I am concurned by some of the same points mentioned above: someone in the crowd being eager for a fight (either side), a plant in the crowd with the sole purpose of causing death (most likely a government agent), and someone outside of the crowd with something as stupid as a fire cracker causing everyone to jump to instinctive fight or flight response. It has been a long time since something this bold has been done, but I do feel that it is something that needs to be done. I guess the main feeling that is compelling me to want to go, is the potential historical significance of it. I imagine someone during the civil rights movement felt as I do. Don't get me wrong, I don't want attention or to be glorified or anything. I simply want to be able to say I saw it with my own eyes, and to know exactly what happened without it being spun by anyone not wanting to let a good crisis go to waste.
J-William Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I love it! I love Adam and I support what he's doing completely! If I were going I would be very much concerned that the government will start shooting or employ agents provocateurs to start the shooting so they can be justified in putting down an armed group of crazy gun-nut terrorists... However, I don't feel like that is very likely. The establisment has much better ways of either ignoring the movement, or marginalizing it by making fun of the crazy gun-nuts. So I think that it is going to be very safe to go, and the real battlefield will be online and in the mainstream media... and hopefully that's where you'll have some effect.
Stefan Molyneux Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 The guns are too stereotypical; they should march while drinking unpasteurized milk.
Andrew79 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 a march is about as collectivist as it can get right? The only problem with collectivism is when it's forced on people. Nothing wrong with people voluntarily coming together to show support for a cause.
J-William Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 a march is about as collectivist as it can get right? The only problem with collectivism is when it's forced on people. Nothing wrong with people voluntarily coming together to show support for a cause. Right. It's the "collective" action of the market which makes the free market work so many apparent miracles.
Wesley Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 The guns are too stereotypical; they should march while drinking unpasteurized milk. +1 But guns gets a whole crowd riled up that unpasteurized milk doesn't, sadly.
Lloyd Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 I followed this planned march on Facebook for about a week. Let me just state for those who may have not read Kokesh's stated intentions that he is actively planning to be arrested along with everyone who joins him. However, the more disturbing message is his intention that there will be blood if those doing the arresting are not respectful and non-violent. I think that sentiment kind of illustrates his rational disconnect with the inherent nature of the police state. Thankfully, he only plans on going forward with this march if he gets 10,000 people to join him (iirc), so I doubt this march will actually occur. For the record, reading most of the discourse on that Facebook event page will leave you recoiling in moral horror. However, I have netted one young, liberal lady into an Austrian/AnCap discussion group as a result, so my suffering was potentially worth it.
Stephen C Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Adam Kokesh never leaves his house without two cannons.
cab21 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 if a person in the march starts acting in a way the rest don't agree with, is the march supposed to naturaly disolve into a bunch of individuals again? a march at the core is numbers. how is 1000 marching better than 1100 marching against those 1000? usa governent constitution was ratified with a nice chunk of people who did not want to ratify it, a march of those against ratifycation would be vastly outnumberd by a march for ratification. if it's about individual liberty, then it does not matter what the numbers are.
masonman Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 an Austrian/AnCap discussion group Is this on facebook? Whats it called?
Lloyd Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Yes, it is on Facebook. Perhaps appropriately, it is called "The Pretence of Knowledge." I am not an admin, merely an active contributor, but I find great value in most of the discussions in that group.
tambert Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 The guns are too stereotypical; they should march while drinking unpasteurized milk. Yes! Although I believe it's only the selling of unpasteurized milk that's illegal in most states, not the drinking of it. So maybe they should set up a big giant milk stand, in the same vein as a lemonade stand, and sell it along the streets of D.C. I saw a video of people doing this with lemonade stands on the capital lawn and many were, in fact, arrested.
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