The Morality of Opposite Sex Heterosexual Friendships, and Social Paranoia vs. Rational Self-Protection

[In the belly of the beast]

Hello All!

To give everyone a bit of backgorund, I found FDR about six months ago, initially drawn in by the political and economic topics, but over the last three or four months I've expanded to the sections on interpersonal psychology and relationships.  At this point I've gone through about 200 podcasts and 2 books ("On Truth" and "UPB" [the latter currently in progress]), jumping around somewhat  and mostly keeping to the monologues or expert interviews conducted by Stef.  As you can see by my post count, I've mostly been a lurker this past half year.  It's probably time to rectify this.

I have two major questions to throw out for some honest feedback:

(1)  Is it ethical to be friends with members of the opposite sex, when one or both of you are in a relationship? 

I've
been bothered by this over the past few months, given that I have a
female friend in a relationship who wants to reconnect after a hectic
period in both of our lives.  We seem to get along very well, and she
seems like she might actually be a genuine, empathetic person (or at
least could easily develop into one).  I don't really know her boyfriend
very well (met him on two occasions for several hours each), but he
appears to be kind man who treats her well.  I worry about causing
suspicions or somehow putting their relationship under unneccessary
strain by reconnecting with this friend.  It would also seem...somehow
dishonest and sleazy on my part.  As a more pragmatic consideration, I
want to avoid becoming some awkward third wheel (I am currently single
and fairly socially isolated), given that my female friend and I are in
the same professional field in a fairly low population region.  I found her very attractive when she was single (both in terms of personality and physically), but I've never acted on that and have come to peace with the fact that I never will.

 

Am
I feeling conflict and guilt over nothing, unncessarily tossing aside a
potentially great friendship?  Is this some kind of avoidance
mechanism?

 

(2) The second question centers around the dividing line between social paranoia and rational self-protection, but it will require a bit of personal background, especially since I have neglected to introduce myself to the FDR community.  Some identifying information will be fudged a bit, but I will be as honest as I think safely possible.  Six months ago I was an atheistic "conservative", basically your garden-variety conservative in economic and foreign policy areas (the usual nonsense in these areas, minus the religious nuttery).  My conversion from quasi-conservatism to voluntarism was rapid after coming across "The Story of Your Enslavement", basically blowing through minarchism in a few weeks at most before enthuisiastically embracing anarcho-capitalism and signing up here as a paid subsriber.  I suppose Gary Johnson deserves a bit of credit for serving as a short-lived ideological waystation at the tail end of the 2012 presidential election period.

As some of you undoubtedly know firsthand, these major changes in our worldview and values often don't come at convenient times in our lives.  For me, this came about in my late twenties-early thirties, in the middle of medical school, possibly the 2nd most statist institution in existence outside of the military and police.  I was already quite miserable in medical school prior to this converstion, since I came into this institution with a strong interest in psychiatry, and very little pre-existing interest in the mechanics of the human body.  It was an attitude of "This is the required pathway to pursue my interest.  I'll probably end up enjoying many other areas of medicine in the meantime if I keep an open mind and work hard".  A naive attitude, in retrospect, but founded on prior academic experiences beforehand.  Unfortunately, by the end of my first year I couldn't care less about 90% of what we studied, and I came to hate the utterly sterile small blue-collar city and tiny undergrad commuter campus in which my med school resides.  My work ethic, strong throughout my life, all but collapsed, and I fell into a long-lasting depression.  This led to feelings of intense guilt and shame, and the added stress of constantly having to pretend you care and aren't depressed when attending a small medical school with extensive mandatory group learning, along with regularly reassuring your family on the telephone that "the work's going along" (honesty resulted in unrelenting "advice" on time management and hard work).  To rub salt in the wounds, the medical school was about the only accessible option within this culturally sterile town/"city" for socializing with peers of similar education and life stage (the internet [Meetup.com, Facebook, other sites], wall postings on the campus, local newspapers, the regional "alternative weekly" all yielded next to nothing for adult interest groups outside of religion and team sports).  Fortunately, this classroom based component is now over.

I still worry about my social interactions next year in the hospital.  I will have some limited choice in where to live, so I will be able to get out of my current town for a large part of the year (very pumped about this!).  I sincerely hope that memorizing treatment algorithms and mundane details about the human body will be made easier in the knowledge that it is to provide better care/service to somebody's grandmother the next day, rather than simply to vomit forth memorized information on high stakes exams in a bulemic fashion.  And beyond that, the fourth year allows students to study their areas of interest, anywhere in the country.  Ah...such a nice picture.  And then, at the end of it, a direct pay psychotherapy-heavy private practice in psychiatry.  At least, that's the current dream.

Ok, sorry if the details were a bit excessive.  Hopefully it isn't ridiculously self-absorbed ramblings.  I just needed to get some of this off my chest.  Here is my question:  Am I being irrational in not trusting any of my fellow medical students with anything more than the most trivial details of my life?  Or are my anxiety and respressed anger correct:  Am I in danger around most of these people?  And is it a sign of a lack of my own empathy if I find myself constantly bored with any of their conversations I listen to?  At least some of them are intelligent enough to have a conversation that extends beyond sports, Holloywood blockbusters, or cooking, but that is all I ever hear while automatically zoning in and out.  As someone who was friendless and dateless before undergrad (outside of childhood "play dates"), it becomes hard not to blame yourself (reinforced by just about anyone you so much as hint this too).  At the same time, it is also a potential trap to assume you are somehow "above it all" (small talk, etc.) and "deeper".  Maybe most of them are just protecting themselves.  Yet so many do it with smiles on their faces...

[Kast]

It is possible that people that are in relationships that are based on solid principles can have members of the opposite sex as friends. It is just a trust issue that many people never come to terms with that make the majority of people be wary of their significant other having friends of the opposite sex. I think you should ask why is she trying to reconnect with you after a hectic time in her life? It may be uncomfortable but you could sit down and ask her why she suddenly is interested. I don't think people feel guilt for nothing so you should ask yourself what in your past may be causing this sort of response now.

Now as for your second question, I've been contemplating this question to. I've decided the route in life to go is the medical one. I will be going back to college for the time being so will not see the inside of medical offices or hospitals for atleast another year, as I'm going into the nursing field which fast tracks you into offices and hospitals. I wouldn't say you were being irrational by protecting yourself against the other med students because there are a lot of hidden emotional minefields out there but I would atleast try to see who within your class peers you could share tid bits of information with who respond in a positive way. There are a lot of "deeper" people in the world, someone just has to show them the ability and oppurtunity to express their "deeper" self.

[In the belly of the beast]

Thanks for your timely reply.

The guilt probably flows at least partly from an experience I had last year in tutoring an adult ESL student (as a volunteer).  She made frequent and persistent passes at me, despite my multiple explicit refusals and her being married.  Being socially isolated and depressed last year, I did not always reject those advances as immediately and as strongly as I should have (to be clear, nothing happened physically), and in hindsight I should have broken contact with this woman sooner than I actually did.  A mild sense of guilt, disgust with myself, and some anxiety crops up when this enters my mind, alongside a distant feeling of sympathy for her husband.

As for my friend's motivations, she was doing clinical rotations in various regional hospitals as a medical student, and so would appear to have a perfectly legitimate reason for losing contact, given the often brutal hours worked, the travel, and an assumed desire to devote what little free time that she had to her relationship.  I ran into her recently in a hospital while accompanying a physician on the ward, which sparked her request for renewed contact.

 

I agree with you about there being more "deeper" people in the world than we may think.  I sense that many of my classmates are capable of this, if they were willing to do the work required to become honest and self-aware critical thinkers.  The big question is how many would be open to doing this?  How many would simply lash out like a cornered animal, and in so doing harm the person reaching out to them?

If you ever have any questions about medical school that you think a med student could answer, please feel free to send me a private message.  Is there a particular branch of medicine which grabs your interest at present?

[Kast]

I would say you first have to show that you are into "deeper" conversations and topics. Talk about an issue with someone you think that has the possiblity of being a idea and feeling driven showing some vulnerability. A minor issue of course. Then see how the response goes. You'll know quickly whether they're a safe person or not. This is what I do to "test" to see how far people think about things.

As for what field, probably an ER nurse first which will lead to becoming a Nurse Practitioner. Always liked the idea of travelling the world going to poorer countries and administering aid.

[sagiquarius]

Going from the information you've given so far (and from my personal experiences) I would say that you have not completely come to peace with your attraction to this person.  If she was attractive to you when she was single, is it not reasonable to say that she is still attractive to you regardless of her relationship status?  Is it possible that you are some what uncomfortable around her because you have this attraction for this unvailable woman that also is a good friend of yours?  I think you're concern in becoming part of an emotional affair is quite valid.  I suppose, what I"m asking is that if you were really at peace with your status with her, would you be feeling like engaging her (as a friend) is morally questionable?

Has this woman ever expressed attraction for you?  Perhaps directly spoken or in body language, etc.

I'm curious how this is working out for you.  Personal relationships are like "my thing" because they are so damned important.

 

Cheers

[In the belly of the beast]

You raise two goods points on this subject. 

In terms of being at peace with my attraction to this woman:  cognitively, I am.  Sub-consciously, likely not entirely.  Is there any way to decondition yourself from attraction to a person?  Any advice from personal experience (if you're comfortable giving it)?

I hadn't explicitly thought about the danger of an emotional affair, but that's an excellent thought to ponder.  It did happen to me once several years ago while away on a course. Nothing came of it other than my ending of a relationship that in retrospect was not on solid foundations (so, a good decision in hindsight).  There is also the desire to avoid potentially becoming an awkward third wheel.

She has never expressed attraction to me explicitly, and body language interpretation is a weak suit of mine.  I am unaware of any expressed attraction on her part.

So far this entire problem has been ignored, but that's obviously not the best way to deal with it.  I'm struggling with trying to think of how I could broach the topic in writing.  "I like your company, X, but I feel both morally and socially uncomfortable hanging out with you and your boyfriend as a potentially awkward third wheel.  Also, would I be disrupting your relationship by causing or aggravating trust issues between the two of you?"  I can't see most people reacting very well to that kind of honesty.

[Pepin]

Why is there so much focus on this one girl?