I feel like you demonize single mothers

[Mellony]

I have been listening to a lot of your podcasts lately and you seem to talk bad about single motherhood.

I am a single mom. I am divorced because my ex was abusive and I thought it was best to get my kids out of that situation.  

I'm not an evil woman who thinks women have no need for men.  

I think men need a social movement because society portrays men as idiots. It's absolutely disgusting.  I worry that my sons will grow up thinking they are worthless, broken girls.  I also didn't want them to be mentally scarred any more like I was my whole childhood and that's why I left my husband.  

Just some thoughts regarding your podcasts....

[Pepin]

The argument in regards to single parenthood tends to focus on the choices prior to the child's conception, the empirically validated effects of a single parent raising a child, and the economic incentives involved.

It is certainly awful that your ex was abusive to you and that you had to separate yourself and your kids from him, but this does not imply that single parenthood is good for a child, rather it implies that single non-abusive parent is better than two parents where one is abusive.

I am a little confused as to why you think anybody, especially Stefan, would consider you evil for being a single mother.

[sg12]

If you truly care about your kids then accept that you chose to have children with an abusive man and take full and complete responsibility for being a single mother.

[Mellony]

 

If you truly care about your kids then accept that you chose to have children with an abusive man and take full and complete responsibility for being a single mother.

 

Your comment has made me feel pretty defensive....so I'm not going to say anything and just contemplate.      

 

[STer]

 

If you truly care about your kids then accept that you chose to have children with an abusive man and take full and complete responsibility for being a single mother.

 

I think it's important to remember that abusive people are often extremely manipulative, charismatic and/or deceptive. So it's not always so easy to tell that someone is abusive early on and many don't show their abusive qualities openly until after they have someone in a vulnerable position. On the other hand, sometimes there are red flags. But even then, a lot of people grew up in unhealthy environments where those red flags were normal so they don't stand out at all as what they are - signs of danger.

I think we'd need to know a lot more details to know how to accurately assign responsibility in cases like this.

[JKPgamer]

 

 

If you truly care about your kids then accept that you chose to have children with an abusive man and take full and complete responsibility for being a single mother.

 

Your comment has made me feel pretty defensive....so I'm not going to say anything and just contemplate.      

 

 

 

I can only speak from a purely subjective viewpoint on this...My mother and father split when I was only 2 years old.  And I was passed back in forth between the two for three years while they fought it out in court.  Now personally I've never had a problem with my parents being seperated.  And I've asked my mother, because I can't remember, how old I was when she told me that my father struck her and that's why she left.  She can't remember either but I can say, in my own experience, because I knew this detail from early on in life I've always felt it was the correct decision for her to make.

Another contributing factor for me being ok with this situation may have been that both my parents got remarried to different people almost immediately.  So I can't give specific advice, just telling you from the perspective of a person with a abused mother who left.  The only advice I can give is make sure you tell your children the truth when they ask why you aren't with the father anymore.  Don't try to make him guilty and don't make them feel guilty for wanting to see their father.  Give them the facts because that's what my mother did and she NEVER tried to use it or me against my father.

That being said I've listened to a lot of what Stef has said about single parents.  And I'm pretty sure he says parents shouldn't split up unless there is abuse.  I may be misquoting but that's what I've gotten out of the podcasts.  If it was minor disagreements then I agree you owe it to your kids to work those out and include both parents in their lives, but I'm pretty sure the psychology of it is this:  A child who grows up in a household where one parent constantly abuses the other is more dangerous to the child's future outlook on male/female interactions, than having one parent absent.

I hope this helps.

[Guest darkskyabove]

 

Your comment has made me feel pretty defensive....

 

WHY? Stand up Grrrl! Don't let some comment on the Internet deflate your sense of self.

As background, I think it is important to understand that Stefan, as all great orators, tends towards speaking in generalities. This is only appropriate, as trying to speak about specifics tends to miss the point. (No offense intended to the specifics.)

It is up to each of us to recognize that our personal existence is not what is being debated.

It's not all about me!!!

I would suggest re-listening to Stefan's podcasts without the personal, emotional stance. I've never heard him berate a woman for being stuck in the position of single motherhood. His position is based on principle: our entire world is screwed up because of the myriad of ways that children are raised dysfunctionally.

I would wager a fat load of bitcoin that, if asked, Stefan would be empathic to your plight, in a personal sense. Given the choice of raising a child with an abusive parent versus not, it is pretty easy for a rational person to decide: NOT!

Be very careful about how you process information. Just because this forum tends to be "somewhat" more rational than most of the Internet, does not mean that we are immune to trolls and others who wish to be negative, just for the sake of negativity.

Do not idealize anyone's words. Take them for what they're worth. If you wish to ascribe perfection to any public figure, simply ask yourself: would you wish others to ascribe perfection to you?

Without boring all with the details, I will say that I empathize strongly with your situation. And I am male.

If anyone is confronted with an abusive person, in whatever circumstances, CUT 'EM LOOSE! And move on.

Wishing you and yours all the best...

[Pepin]

I think it's important to remember that abusive people are often extremely manipulative, charismatic and/or deceptive. So it's not always so easy to tell that someone is abusive early on and many don't show their abusive qualities openly until after they have someone in a vulnerable position. On the other hand, sometimes there are red flags. But even then, a lot of people grew up in unhealthy environments where those red flags were normal so they don't stand out at all as what they are - signs of danger.

 

I think we'd need to know a lot more details to know how to accurately assign responsibility in cases like this.

I certainly agree that that there are many complex mechanisms at work, but I cannot say that such mechanisms invalidate or relevant to the responsibility for a free choice. For instance, people tend to join the military for a number of complex reasons such as: propaganda; money; primal desires; "honor", but this does not mean a person ought not to take full responsibility for their act of joining and actions in the military. To not take responsibility would be to dissociate from the part of themselves that caused the action to begin with, which is to offload fault onto a concept or others, and to not recognize one's one capacity and willingness to act in such a way. Taking full responsibility is not to beat yourself over something that cannot be changed, but rather to admit to a part of you that was likely created through infliction, and to be aware of this in regards to your life in the present.

[STer]

 

I think it's important to remember that abusive people are often extremely manipulative, charismatic and/or deceptive. So it's not always so easy to tell that someone is abusive early on and many don't show their abusive qualities openly until after they have someone in a vulnerable position. On the other hand, sometimes there are red flags. But even then, a lot of people grew up in unhealthy environments where those red flags were normal so they don't stand out at all as what they are - signs of danger.

 

I think we'd need to know a lot more details to know how to accurately assign responsibility in cases like this.

I certainly agree that that there are many complex mechanisms at work, but I cannot say that such mechanisms invalidate or relevant to the responsibility for a free choice. For instance, people tend to join the military for a number of complex reasons such as: propaganda; money; primal desires; "honor", but this does not mean a person ought not to take full responsibility for their act of joining and actions in the military. To not take responsibility would be to dissociate from the part of themselves that caused the action to begin with, which is to offload fault onto a concept or others, and to not recognize one's one capacity and willingness to act in such a way. Taking full responsibility is not to beat yourself over something that cannot be changed, but rather to admit to a part of you that was likely created through infliction, and to be aware of this in regards to your life in the present.

 

My comment wasn't about it being complex. It was about the fact that abusive people are often manipulative and deceptive. It's not the complexity I'm commenting on. It's that the choice is often made without all of the information available and even with disinformation being put forth. In a case like that, it's hard to hold someone responsible.

[Wesley]

I may be wrong, but the comments are made based on studies that prove it is worse for the child. Obviously, there is a bell curve and some single women are far better parents than some couples will ever be. However, it seems scientifically proven that the mean of the single mother bell curve is lower than th mean for the couple bell curve.

It is at least difficult for one parent to try to do what two parents normally would do, which makes sense why the mean would likely be worse for the child.

Anecdotes of great single parents, however, do not make science.

[Pepin]

My comment wasn't about it being complex. It was about the fact that abusive people are often manipulative and deceptive. It's not the complexity I'm commenting on. It's that the choice is often made without all of the information available and even with disinformation being put forth. In a case like that, it's hard to hold someone responsible.

The term complex mechanisms might have been a poor choice of word, as I intended it to be a generalization of psychological issues that are not straight forward, which would include susceptibility to manipulation.

What are the implications of holding someone responsible for a choice they make that is the result of scar tissue or a lack of knowledge?

[STer]

 

My comment wasn't about it being complex. It was about the fact that abusive people are often manipulative and deceptive. It's not the complexity I'm commenting on. It's that the choice is often made without all of the information available and even with disinformation being put forth. In a case like that, it's hard to hold someone responsible.

The term complex mechanisms might have been a poor choice of word, as I intended it to be a generalization of psychological issues that are not straight forward, which would include susceptibility to manipulation.

What are the implications of holding someone responsible for a choice they make that is the result of scar tissue or a lack of knowledge?

 

I'd say there is a spectrum of responsibility on the victim's part. On one end, you have people who have been repeatedly warned by friends, family and others that they are being fooled and choose to ignore it. On the other, you have people who are quite wise and nonetheless can still fall prey to a really good con artist.

I'm not saying the victim never holds any part of the responsibility at all for their plight. But I'm just saying it's not really fair to assess that without knowing more details about a particular case.

[PatrickC]

Sorry to hear about your experience with your ex partner. Glad you managed to walk away from the abuse. Good for you and your children. Best wishes!

 

[Mellony]

My relationship with him started out amazing!  He was perfect....that should have been the tip off!

After we have our 2nd child together, life became a living hell.  He beat our dog and I'm not talking about a smack, I'm talking about kicking and throwing her across the floor, laying on her and punching her in the stomach, and carrying her by the tail.  When she peed on the floor, he threw her in the pee and wiped it up with her.  This was done in front of the kids.  When they were older he would throw stuff on the floor and make them pick it up.  He threw stuff and broke stuff.  He wouldn't talk to me for days...He always pointed out what I didnt do right and never said anything nice to me.  The complete opposite of what he was in the beginning.  

He left me at a Foo Fighters concert because I didn't pay enough attention to him.  We were 200 miles away from home.  He came back to get me and drove almost 100mph all the way home in the pouring rain....not saying a word to me.  The next day, he yelled at me because he was sure I loved them more than him, I embarrassed him and I have been to more Foo Fighters concerts than to his city council meetings.  He was on City Council, BTW.  

I seriously think he has a mental issue.  He wanted to dig a hole in the backyard so we can survive the loss of gravity the earth is going to have when Planet X hits us.  He thought I was having an affair with my 16 yr old son's (from a previous relationship) friend.

He threatened to beat up my parents...It just got to be too much.  

He was a completely different person around his friends and constituents and pretty much everyone else but me the kids and my parents.  It made me feel like shit...I was worthless.

When he raised his voice, my 7 yr old instantly started crying and sat down and hid his face in his lap.   

I had to leave...I had to

Thanks for letting me vent....I know this is poorly written and probably doesnt flow well.  I was just getting it all out!

[Nathan T_ Freeman]

 

My relationship with him started out amazing!  He was perfect....that should have been the tip off!

After we have our 2nd child together, life became a living hell...

Thanks for letting me vent....I know this is poorly written and probably doesnt flow well.  I was just getting it all out!

 

Nothing at all wrong with what you wrote. Thank you for sharing. And yes, I agree that sounds horrifying and based on what you've described, leaving was the best choice.

I'm curious, did your husband have any siblings?

[Mellony]

Yes, he had 3 older siblings.  There was at least 12 years difference between him and the brother before him.  

I know he had a pretty lonely childhood and he told me that he never really felt wanted.  I don't think he had a great relationship with his siblings but now since he started going to church with them, they are closer.  I'm happy about that.  I always wanted him to reach out and spend more time with them.  He needs that.  The only downfall is that he takes our boys to church with him.  

[Nathan T_ Freeman]

You've mentioned at 16yr old son from a previous relationship, and a 7yr old... what are the ages of all your kids, if you don't mind?He was 12 years younger than his next brother -- that's a pretty big gap. Do you know about his relationship with his parents? 

[Alan C.]

After we have our 2nd child together, life became a living hell.

You did the right thing by getting away from him. He sounds like a loose cannon.

It's unfortunate that he is involving your kids in church. Church is a place for him to hide.

[Mellony]

I'm hesitant to talk about my kids and previous relationships because I have a horrible track record picking partners and I am a bit embarrassed by it.  

I have been married 2 times.  I have 6 kids from my first marriage (20, 18, 16, 13, 12, 10) and I have 2 kids from my 2nd marriage (8, 7). 

I married my 2nd husband in 2004 and our divorce was final in March of this year.  I have no intentions of getting into any sort of relationship with anyone else until my kids are older and I work on myself and figure out why I pick such abusive idiots.  I don't want to have my kids be around someone who could potentially be abusive to them like my last husband was.

With that being said, my ex didn't have a very good relationship with his parents.  When we were together both his parents had already passed away.  I do know there were some circumstances in his past that happened to him that I would consider abusive.  I was told of an incident where they were in Texas and he just left his family and attempted to hitch hike back to Missouri.  He was 5 and they didn't even notice he was missing for like 2 hours.  It was heartbreaking to me.

I get why he had problems, but he wouldn't admit they were problems.  Things will never change for him until he can get some help. 

[MrCapitalism]

would you possibly be willing to call into the sunday show, referencing this thread? I'd be very interested to hear a conversation about this.

[PatrickC]

Really happy to hear you are looking back to try and understand the situation from an historic perspective. I think that is indeed very brave and honest of you. Just to point out that when Stef criticises single parenthood, he is genrally talking about those people that choose it. It's quite clear that you didn't choose it and the fact things went badly for you shouldn't categorise you in the same vein. It sounds to me like you are trying to make sense of your past and best wishes with that.

[Nathan T_ Freeman]

 

I'm hesitant to talk about my kids and previous relationships because I have a horrible track record picking partners and I am a bit embarrassed by it.  

 

I can't offer you anything but my word that I intend no attack. I'm trying to understand the context of your family and how it might relate to your 2nd husband's childhood.

 

I have been married 2 times.  I have 6 kids from my first marriage (20, 18, 16, 13, 12, 10) and I have 2 kids from my 2nd marriage (8, 7). 

 

I'm speechless! You have been busy!

When I do the math, this means that your last child was born 7 years ago (so 2006), at which time you would have had: 13, 11, 9, 6, 5, 3, 1 and a newborn. Were they all living with you and your 2nd husband at the time? That would have been after you'd been married about 2 years, then?

...and I work on myself and figure out why I pick such abusive idiots.

That sounds like a wise move. If I can second a suggestion elsewhere in this thread: you really should call-in to the Sunday show and have a chat with Stefan about this. Or drop him an email at [email protected] and ask for a private conversation. I think if you reference this thread, he will be very interested in talking with you. He has a penchant for quickly getting to the core of these kinds of issues.

I don't want to have my kids be around someone who could potentially be abusive to them like my last husband was.

YAY!

With that being said, my ex didn't have a very good relationship with his parents.  When we were together both his parents had already passed away.  I do know there were some circumstances in his past that happened to him that I would consider abusive.  I was told of an incident where they were in Texas and he just left his family and attempted to hitch hike back to Missouri.  He was 5 and they didn't even notice he was missing for like 2 hours.  It was heartbreaking to me.

A 5 year old tries to hitchhike across 3 states in order to leave his parents (and 18-year old brother, perhaps?) I'd say that "not a very good relationship" and things that you would "consider abusive" assuredly understate his actual experience. It is very difficult to imagine that a 5-year old would set out on such an mission for any reason other than mortal terror.

Can you imagine your youngest child deciding to run away from home and hitchhike 500 miles to get away from your ex-husband? You described life with him as "living hell" and said you "seriously think he has mental issues." Now consider what happened when your own kids experienced this...

 

When he raised his voice, my 7 yr old instantly started crying and sat down and hid his face in his lap.   

I had to leave...I had to

 

And indeed you did have to. Instead of demonizing that, I would praise it as angelic. And precisely the decision that his own mother must not have made.

But picture that 5-year old boy, who's mother did NOT leave. And so, at 5, he must have said the same thing to himself that you said at (I'm guessing) around 40. Can you imagine what he must have been experiencing at home to drive him to that decision?

Beating up the weakest member of the family, screaming and breaking stuff, being ignored for days at a time... these sound like exactly the kinds of things that might drive a 5-year old boy to try to run away.

If I might be allowed a bit of speculation, another thing that might have been trying for a 5-year old boy with 3 older brothers who are at least 13 years older than him is if he thought that his parents didn't love him as much they loved his brothers. If he observed his mother doting on the trio of other brothers, yet ignoring him, he might have felt a horrifying emotional neglect.

How many original members of the Foo Fighters were there (or Dave Grohl's prior band, Nirvana?) Their debut album was released in 1995. You started seeing differences in behavior in 2006. Any chance that concert incident was in 2008?

 

I get why he had problems, but he wouldn't admit they were problems.  Things will never change for him until he can get some help. 

 

I agree. I would further posit that he isn't going to find that help in a church. And unless his older brothers have been through extensive therapy and are prepared to be open with him about their own abusive experiences, I doubt he's going to find it through relationships with them, either.

Please understand, I'm not trying to excuse any of his actions. I'm just trying to put them into the context of you saying "he was perfect, and then he completely changed and life became a living hell." Because, and this is really really important, if you don't have some basis of understanding and empathy for what happened to him, you probably aren't going to be able to discover what in yourself causes you to "pick such abusive idiots." If they aren't abusive idiots at the start, but they become so later in the relationship, then there is probably something that you relate to that will point to where you need to work on self-knowledge.

Again, I want to commend you and praise you to the heavens for your brave decision to get your kids away from an abusive father. Nothing, NOTHING, is more important than preventing violence to children. And so whatever demonization or defensiveness you might have felt about opening up about this topic here, THANK YOU for doing so, and THANK YOU for protecting your kids from the cycle of violence. You are the light of hope for the future of this species and this planet.

[Mellony]

I completely understand that you are not trying to defend his actions, and believe me, I have thought about him trying to run away and it breaks my heart.  I know he was lonely and he has always said that he was pretty much on his own when he was growing up.  It really must have been tough.  I have a problem in that I empathize with people too much.  Hearing stories of kids being mistreated upset me so much.  Do you remember when Susan Smith drowned her kids in the back seat of her car?  After I heard that, I didn't sleep for days.  It upset me so much, I just kept thinking about those 2 boys in their carseats crying and being scared and wondering why their mom isnt trying to help them.  It weighs on my heart even still. Hearing about the families being destroyed and the innocent lives lost overseas because of our ridiculous wars.  ALl the children who lost their lives or their parents.  Can you imagine the horror? All because they were born in the wrong country.  Its terrible.  I wish I could just help them.  Stop it all. How can people be ok with that?  How can people turn a blind eye?  My father was abused as a child and thinking about the things he went through literally brings tears to my eyes.  I can't imagine going through that.  That's why I am try so hard to be gentle with my kids. I don't ever want them to feel crappy like I did when I was growing up.  EVER, they don't deserve it.  They are amazing kids.  

You are right with the ages of the children when things started getting bad.  I blamed myself, I still blame myself.  I obviously did something to make him change so drastically...I did gain weight after having my last baby.  He did tell me I was unattractive.  Maybe that was it?   

Do you really think he would talk to me about this?  I would think that he really wouldn't be too interested in it. 

The concert incident happened in 2011.  The Foo Fighters is my favorite band.  I think it made him jealous because at the concert I really had a good time.  I was in my cousins wedding in Chicago in 2007.  He didn't talk to me the entire trip, and left me at my cousins wedding because he didn't like me sitting with another man.  He told me this on our trip home when he started talking to me again.  

Thanks for all the nice words.  I really don't think I deserve them though.  I'm just a regular mom trying to do what's best for her kids.  I'm just doing what I am supposed to be doing.  

[Nathan T_ Freeman]

So let me begin by saying that I didn't click through to your profile information prior to this post, so it's easier now to approach the conversation knowing that you have explicitly listed interests in anarchy, atheism and evolution. Also I am exactly 3 weeks older than you, so I can now make authoritative statements with impunity! (KIDDING! But happy to know I guessed pretty accurately on age.)

Also, to set the context clearly, I only have two children myself: a 4.5 year old daughter and a son who turned 2 on this very day. So as I said before: big salute to you for raising 8 at a time. I'm sure you have stories that would be invaluable to the other parents at FDR

I completely understand that you are not trying to defend his actions, and believe me, I have thought about him trying to run away and it breaks my heart.  I know he was lonely and he has always said that he was pretty much on his own when he was growing up.  It really must have been tough.

To be honest, I wonder whether you filter your feelings through your own experiences. You were very forgiving in your descriptions of his childhood.

I have a problem in that I empathize with people too much.  Hearing stories of kids being mistreated upset me so much.  Do you remember when Susan Smith drowned her kids in the back seat of her car?  After I heard that, I didn't sleep for days.  It upset me so much, I just kept thinking about those 2 boys in their carseats crying and being scared and wondering why their mom isnt trying to help them.  It weighs on my heart even still.

Ah yes. I agree. We all have our personal triggers, but I know well the feeling of reading a story about violence against children and being overwhelmed by helplessness and shame. You cannot think. You cannot fight. You can only cover your eyes, scream at the top of your lungs, and wail at the helpless inhumanity of it all.

Yes, I know that agony all too well. I am so sorry you feel it as well. (Well, no, not really. I'm sorry you have to experience that feeling, but I'm delighted that you possess the cognitive awareness of what it really means.)

Hearing about the families being destroyed and the innocent lives lost overseas because of our ridiculous wars.  ALl the children who lost their lives or their parents.  Can you imagine the horror?

No. And part of me is happy that I can't, because I don't know that I could endure it. And I'm sure that SOMEONE must endure it to convey to future generations the utter horror that it must be.

All because they were born in the wrong country.  Its terrible.  I wish I could just help them.  Stop it all. How can people be ok with that?  How can people turn a blind eye?

You will find nothing but agreement with your concerns on this board.

My father was abused as a child and thinking about the things he went through literally brings tears to my eyes.  I can't imagine going through that.

Ah, but I will challenge you a bit. I bet you DO imagine going through it. And if you personally didn't go through it (and that's a question you can't answer off the cuff,) it doesn't mean you CAN'T imagine it. Again, this is just a pure amateur guesswork, but I suspect you do imagine it quite vividly, and then work very hard to forget what you imagined.

Again, just a guess.

That's why I am try so hard to be gentle with my kids. I don't ever want them to feel crappy like I did when I was growing up.  EVER, they don't deserve it.  They are amazing kids.  

HUGE APPLAUSE!!! I hope you'll engage this community on a variety of parenting strategies.

I blamed myself, I still blame myself.  I obviously did something to make him change so drastically...I did gain weight after having my last baby.  He did tell me I was unattractive.  Maybe that was it?  

What you said there was extremely important. You should read it about 10 times. And in answer to your question: no.

Do you really think he would talk to me about this?  I would think that he really wouldn't be too interested in it.

No, I don't think he would. Everything I have said here is for YOU, not him. I think it's possible he might find his way through what he has endured, but not through anything I have said. He need professional support and insight. I'm just some anonymous person on the internet.

The concert incident happened in 2011.  The Foo Fighters is my favorite band.  I think it made him jealous because at the concert I really had a good time.

The time frame was just speculation, but I hope you can see why there might be an emotional association between the love he was supposed to receive from his mother relative to his older siblings and the love he was supposed to receive from the mother of his children relative to her favorite band. I'd assert that there must be a reason that you highlighted this concert experience when it has such clear parallels to his early childhood.

I was in my cousins wedding in Chicago in 2007.  He didn't talk to me the entire trip, and left me at my cousins wedding because he didn't like me sitting with another man.  He told me this on our trip home when he started talking to me again.

Just to point out that there are alternative stories here, I'll throw out an idea: what if, being born 12 years after his youngest brother, he wasn't intended? What if he not only wasn't intended, but wasn't actually the biological child of his father?

Would that explain the pattern of abuse and neglect? Might that have affected his behavior towards his step-children? Or his biological children? Or informed his idea that the matriarch of the family might sire a child out of wedlock?

I'm not saying any of these things happened. I'm saying that if they resonate with you, then perhaps they warrant a deeper exploration.

Thanks for all the nice words.  I really don't think I deserve them though.

Well, I'm certain that you do. So take them. :-)

I'm just a regular mom trying to do what's best for her kids.  I'm just doing what I am supposed to be doing.  

If only the world understood what "supposed to" really meant, all our wounds could be healed and all our fears would vanish like a whisper in the wind. Let's keep working together towards that most noble goal.

[Pepin]

I'd say there is a spectrum of responsibility on the victim's part. On one end, you have people who have been repeatedly warned by friends, family and others that they are being fooled and choose to ignore it. On the other, you have people who are quite wise and nonetheless can still fall prey to a really good con artist.

I'm not saying the victim never holds any part of the responsibility at all for their plight. But I'm just saying it's not really fair to assess that without knowing more details about a particular case.

I would agree with that, though I start to get confused when thinking about this in relation to situations in my life. I've come across a few people who claim that there was no way they could have known, and I will point out things that happened and things they had said in the past, and then they are kind of forced to agree because they do remember, or they act like I am making stuff up. I'm not sure if these people legitimately forgot, unconsciously repressed it, or if they simply don't want to take any fault for enabling abuse. This is just to say that I am always skeptical when a victim claims that they couldn't have known because the "I couldn't have known" claim seems to be preferable. The above doesn't invalidate anything you said, though it certainly confuses me. I might be overthinking this.

[Magenta]

 

I have been listening to a lot of your podcasts lately and you seem to talk bad about single motherhood.

I am a single mom. I am divorced because my ex was abusive and I thought it was best to get my kids out of that situation.  

I'm not an evil woman who thinks women have no need for men.  

 

Slight deviation from the topic about single motherhood: I recently listened to Stef's podcast #616 "Coincidence and Love Part 2" and I think it really clarifies his points about previous abusive relationships - specifically, starting at 00:24:25. It was very enlightening for me, it might be worthwhile for you. 

[Mellony]

 

 

I have been listening to a lot of your podcasts lately and you seem to talk bad about single motherhood.

I am a single mom. I am divorced because my ex was abusive and I thought it was best to get my kids out of that situation.  

I'm not an evil woman who thinks women have no need for men.  

 

Slight deviation from the topic about single motherhood: I recently listened to Stef's podcast #616 "Coincidence and Love Part 2" and I think it really clarifies his points about previous abusive relationships - specifically, starting at 00:24:25. It was very enlightening for me, it might be worthwhile for you. 

 

 

thanks!!  I'll listen to it!!

[STer]

 

I'd say there is a spectrum of responsibility on the victim's part. On one end, you have people who have been repeatedly warned by friends, family and others that they are being fooled and choose to ignore it. On the other, you have people who are quite wise and nonetheless can still fall prey to a really good con artist.

I'm not saying the victim never holds any part of the responsibility at all for their plight. But I'm just saying it's not really fair to assess that without knowing more details about a particular case.

I would agree with that, though I start to get confused when thinking about this in relation to situations in my life. I've come across a few people who claim that there was no way they could have known, and I will point out things that happened and things they had said in the past, and then they are kind of forced to agree because they do remember, or they act like I am making stuff up. I'm not sure if these people legitimately forgot, unconsciously repressed it, or if they simply don't want to take any fault for enabling abuse. This is just to say that I am always skeptical when a victim claims that they couldn't have known because the "I couldn't have known" claim seems to be preferable. The above doesn't invalidate anything you said, though it certainly confuses me. I might be overthinking this.

 

I agree that this kind of thing makes trying to accurately assess responsibility even more complicated than it already is. Since we really do have defense mechanisms like suppression and denial, which can happen unconsciously or subconsciously, and also because we can have a lot of confusion when dealing with mixed messages, it's very difficult to know how much someone really was equipped to act on red flags even when they are there and even when we know that at some point they were pointed out or they did notice them. And like I said, since these situations often involve people who were raised in unhealthy environments, it becomes even more likely that some of these defense mechanisms are in play. And then even if they do notice the red flags, you have the fact that there may be other factors where they just honestly feel it's safer or more beneficial to stay even despite the red flags (ie: financial issues and so on). Very complicated.

[MysterionMuffles]

Oh my goodness! The things you describes especially with the abuse towards the dog... Made me weep internally.

I just finished reading the entire thread and I am speechless. Like everyone else I commend you on your bravery and integrity. That pinnacle choice to protect your children from such destructive displays of power. I really hope none of them, especially the younger ones haven't picked up any of that behaviour themselves. Have you talked to them about it and had to explain how wrong it is to be aggressive or do they just instinctually know due to their own direct experiences in witnessing these atrocious acts. I mean...wiping a dog against its own urine and sitting on it to beat it up just AGH! There is no curse word that would suffice.

I really think you should have a private chat with Stef about this, and definitely not on the Sunday show where you know people are listening live. I think it's best to do private so that your free to more vulnerability and that you have the choice to put it out there as a podcast or not. I would imagine it would get pretty intense so a one on one would be best.

[Stephen C]

I think it might be useful to toss whatever people say about single motherhood into the trash and just focus on getting your children what they need and want as much as you can. It sounds like you are already working towards that. Asking them for feedback, suggestions, preferences, and advice is going to be useful, I think.