Sex, shame/humilitation and fetishes

[Jeremi]

So I'm writing this because after a painful breakup I had recently I have begun to evaluate the source of some of my sexual fantasies I had when thinking about my ex (we broke up before the opportunity presented itself for sex) and I've come to a sort of horrible realization that part of me was employing those fantasies in avoidance of dealing with the root cause of my own issues, which I am sure lies in a childhood filled with neglect and emotional manipulation.

 

For this reason I'm seeking advice from anyone with advanced knowledge on the topic of sexual pathology and its link to childhood. I'd prefer not to get into extreme details on a forum but rather discuss it with someone on private messenger or somewhere more discreet. Or, if anyone can provide me with good reading material I'd also appreciate that. 

 

I should add that I don't feel my sexual fantasies are indicative of any kind of extreme fetish obsession, but they still lean in that direction and only now am I really starting to come to terms with what this implies about my past. Any help that could be provided would be appreciated. I am considering trying an online therapist but I am hesitant given as how this is a topic which I feel requires someone with a very specific expertise.

[_LiveFree_]

I've gone through something similar recently myself. I have no idea of your specific situation, etc. But I would like to present an idea to you. While your fantasies manifested as sexual, does that really matter? If an alcoholic is drinking beer, does it matter what brand of beer he is drinking? The fact that you retreated into fantasy when presented with a real connection with another person is what should be explored, imho. I don't think the sex aspect is all that important. I know for me, I used to equate physical intimacy with love. Instead of seeing this in a healthy way, all I did was chase after physical intimacy thinking I'd find love. This created some serious dissonance since I have an aversion to using sex just for sex, instead of as an expression of love. (none of this should make sense because it is all completely illogical!)

 

Anyway, don't hate on yourself because you created fantasies of sex in your mind. Just find out why retreating into fantasy felt safer than engaging in real emotional vulnerability and intimacy with another. The fact that you are aware of what happened is a massive step in the right direction. It's a step most are completely unaware of. This is a major success in your life's journey!! Congratulations! Well done!

 

[applause]

[Lowe D]

It isn't unnatural to have a sexual fixation on humiliation, after a bad childhood.  It's a coping mechanism a lot of people develop, as shown by the huge amount of sadomasochistic pornography online, in the form of videos, photos, stories, and artwork.

So, whatever the exact nature of your fantasies, I think you can give yourself a break.

[Jeremi]

 

It isn't unnatural to have a sexual fixation on humiliation, after a bad childhood.  It's a coping mechanism a lot of people develop, as shown by the huge amount of sadomasochistic pornography online, in the form of videos, photos, stories, and artwork.

So, whatever the exact nature of your fantasies, I think you can give yourself a break.

 

 

Right, but it's something that scars me deeply as I hate to feel so disempowered and these fantasies of humiliation that keep coming back after this breakup are indicative of some deep trauma for me which I need to get at the root of if I'm ever going to have an enlightened relationship with someone else. I'd be happy to get into more detail in private but not on this thread as it is basically as personal as anything can be for someone.

[Lowe D]

I think I understand what you mean, about feeling disempowered.  I have fantasies around humiliation, which can turn my stomach, even while I'm having them.  That is why I know about it.

I think I understand the desire to get to the root of the fantasies, and it may be that part of you who is feeling disempowered.  It's hard to get to the root of things we don't remember.  Would it be all right to let that part know he doesn't need to work so hard, to figure things out?  Then maybe he could give you some space, and you would feel better.

He doesn't have to go away, because curiosity is a good thing.  But when intense curiosity comes up to the emptiness of unknown history, it can be a source of pain.  If or when you get some space from your disempowered part, you could ask why he needs to figure things out.

...

If you don't want to talk about this in public, that's all right.  You can PM me, and I'll try to get back to you.

 

[Lowe D]

By the way, I'll add that I am not an expert on sexual pathology and its links to childhood.  I'm just a guy.  If you need to talk to an expert, you might start with a psychologist whom you trust.  Then, if that person sees it as necessary, you could get a referral to a sexual psychologist.

[Elias Tate]

Does anyone know of any worthwhile reading material on this subject. It's such a hard thing to find internal clarity on, and it's not something that seems to have been studied at any great length. I've been able to find a few case studies with some half baked theories on the psychogenisis of this phenomonea, but it's still so mysterious. there doesn't even seem to be good data it's prevelance in the general population. The only conclusive thing i've really ever been able to find is that the overwhelming majority of people with sexual fetishes are male.

To be sure, dealing with this in you own life dosen't require extensive university research and statistical meta analysis, just like dealing with any aspect of your personality, it calls for curiosity and open-heartedness... but it would be nice if people could offer you more insight than, "accept your self. do whatever makes you happy" This attitude can be important and helpful, but does little to illuminate the situation. I think alot of us like to be able to explain things, especially things that provoke such powerful feelings. Hunger, fear of heights or deep water, competitivness, 'vanilla' sexuality etc are all fairly well explained by evolutionary theory, but the more kinky stuff does not have such an obivous explanation.

Sexuality seems to be somthing that is more or less fixed by the time one becomes aware of it, which creates an epistemlogical dilemma - if the cause predates the effect by 5-10 years how do we go about making connections retrospectivly? If anyone here has made progress in understanding where this kind of thing comes from in their own past, what advice would you give to someone trying to sort themself out? i'm looking for somthing more specific and deepthy than, "try to figure out where these feelings come from" - that's a given. in practical terms, what clues do you look for? what information is revelant? what are the general principles? 

 

Thanks.

 

[Lowe D]

Since males have a stronger sex drive, and also usually suffer more physical abuse than females, it makes sense that they would more often fetishize violence.  As for the cause predating the effect by five to ten years, that isn't always the case.  Sexual feelings sometimes show up in children, before puberty, especially when it's this kind of feeling. That's what happened for me.

I don't know others' histories, and won't ever, so I won't generalize.  I see in my own life, the sexualization of violence happened quickly and early, and was not an accident.  It was an adaptation to the creepy, physically invasive, demeaning, and sexualized violence of my family.  It was a healthy response to an unhealthy situation.

[cherapple]

I'd like to add my own experience, as a female. Very young children can indeed have sexual feelings. I was about six when my parents took me with them to see a violent porn film at the drive-in. They treated me like a dog who would have no thoughts or feelings about what I was watching. My body responded to the sounds and images, and I had no idea what was happening to me—how, why, or what it meant. Of course, I thought it meant something awful was wrong with me. My parents told me to "go lay down and go to sleep."  The terror was almost unbearable, and the only thing I could do was suppress the whole experience. I'm only beginning to come to terms with the mind, body, and soul F'ery that my parents' sexual choices throughout my childhood did to me. I'm so sorry for anyone who suffers the horrible and confusing consequences of having parents who inflicted upon them their dysfunctional and sociopathic sexual behaviors. It is such a difficult thing to get clear on—enshrouded in so much shame, humiliation, and secrecy. The answer is to take the shame and give it back to them. It is not ours and never was. 

[Aaron727]

 

 

For this reason I'm seeking advice from anyone with advanced knowledge on the topic of sexual pathology and its link to childhood

 

 

An interesing little article on the topic http://wildtruth.net/why-sex-is-inappropriate-for-most-people/

[Elias Tate]

 

I'd like to add my own experience, as a female. Very young children can indeed have sexual feelings. I was about six when my parents took me with them to see a violent porn film at the drive-in. They treated me like a dog who would have no thoughts or feelings about what I was watching. My body responded to the sounds and images, and I had no idea what was happening to me—how, why, or what it meant. Of course, I thought it meant something awful was wrong with me. My parents told me to "go lay down and go to sleep."  The terror was almost unbearable, and the only thing I could do was suppress the whole experience. I'm only beginning to come to terms with the mind, body, and soul F'ery that my parents' sexual choices throughout my childhood did to me. I'm so sorry for anyone who suffers the horrible and confusing consequences of having parents who inflicted upon them their dysfunctional and sociopathic sexual behaviors. It is such a difficult thing to get clear on—enshrouded in so much shame, humiliation, and secrecy. The answer is to take the shame and give it back to them. It is not ours and never was. 

 

 

 It's inspiring that you've been able to sort all of this stuff out to find lucidity and perspective for yourself, espically considering the situation you came out of. Thank you for this post.

Certainly in my own childhood, i have a few distinct memories of things that kind of foreshadow the issues we're talking about here, but it is not clear to me that these caused profound changes in my psychology. It seems more likely to me that I alread had these preferences and the time, because i remember eagerly engaging in such behavior in rare moments scattered thorought my younger years. It seems like i was repressing my 'interests' because they weren't socially acceptable, and i could go for months when i was younger without thinking about them or even remembering that they were part of me. But since they would inevitably come to the surface from time to time i struggled alot with comming to terms with them. For me it has been more about confusion than shame, as i've never been judgmental or moralistic in this kind of way. The most helpful thing for me was in my late teens researching the topic online and simply finding a name and description for this nebulous surge of feelings that I otherwise had no idea what to do with. I still haven't been able to find any specific trauma that explains this stuff for me, but it is nice to talk to others who have had similar expirences to my own.

I also want to take a moment to empathize with CheckovsGun's original post. As much as we want to avoid self attack for something we can't change, it is also true that these kind of behaviors can sometimes be dysfunctional, espically if they are the result of some historical dysfunction. The article that Aaron727 linked to makes this same point: that sexuality is often a used as a misguided attempt to solve some deeper issue. I suppose the best thing to do is to explore it with a therapist or other professional. I've talked about this stuff with my own therapist (whom i will be seeing again in the fall) and it was helpful, but it's becoming more clear to me that there is more work to do.

[Cornellius]

Freud has excellent theory about fetishes.

 

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/31127300/Freud-Fetishism-1927e