Adam kokesh about liberty movement at a crossroads

[Formelyknown]

[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkxiVflurKs]

Pussies or not?

[nathanm]

I understand he's mainly complaining about not getting covered and that's valid, but if Adam wants to throw himself into the maw of the State I'm not going to follow him there. I'm having a hard time reconciling the points made throughout the video with the idea that he 'wants it to end peacefully'.  Soooo…is it a good idea for everyone to try and get arrested?  It's a sort of a militaristic view.  Adam may have left the Marines, but I don't think the Marines have left Adam yet.  It's not particularly market-like either.  A free market doesn't spend too much time complaining about poor goods and service, it makes better ones.

Let's look at Turkey as an example.  If that doesn't qualify as "taking action" then I don't know what does.  Stadium-sized throngs of people out in the streets.  Great!  OK, so now what…no more Turkish government?  Every State agent has seen the light?  Cops are going to walk away from their jobs?  Taxation is abolished?  I think wanting a quick fix is a fantasy.  Statism grew over centuries and as painful as it is for us, it will probably take as long to go away.  The SWAT cop doesn't care if I sit behind my keyboard and complain, but I merely feed his pathology if I go out and get in his face.  I don't want to encourage the adrenaline rush meathead assholes will get by throwing me to the ground and beating me into a swollen, bloody mess.  I want to physically ignore the State as much as is possible.  The State is best equipped to wreck my body, since despite their best efforts, breaking my mind didn't work.  I don't know what else I can do besides talking about it.  I can't talk about it if I'm full of bullets and I can't talk about from jail.  If I go out and engage the sociopaths on their own turf I am just going to make myself more stressed and angry, it's just going to be self-destructive even if the thugs don't lay a hand on me.

How do you get back at the bullies who hassled you in school?  Pound in their face?  Slingshot a rock at goliath's head?  No, you show up at the future class reunion as your own person who lived every moment after graduation as if those bullies didn't even exist.

[tasmlab]

Like +1 on your post Nathanm

As far as changing the minds of other citizenry, I think anarchists need to look like the sanest people around.  I'm not sure all of AK's ideas accomplish that.

[Guest darkskyabove]

As much as I believe that regular Americans are far from ready for Adam's view, I must give him credit for trying. One thing I can be reasonably sure of, is that the Founders of this country, regardless of their particular political views, would have had similar reaction to the State we now live in: They would have marched on DC, with plenty of ammo and removed the tyrants! Can anyone imagine Samuel Adams meekly opening his mouth for a DNA swab? Or Thomas Jefferson allowing a Federal agent to read through his personal papers?

[Hugh Akston]

Consider the possibility that this man is an agent of the state.  Reason alone would argue against the cause of action he promotes.  Agorism is a laudable aim, but then again it does not get you any publicity by its very nature does it [6]

[PatrickC]

He's got a point about people like Rockwell and his contemporaries. They completely ignored his plight. Whilst I don't wish to follow the kind of escalation Adam encourages, it was no joy hearing that he had disappeared for days, unaccounted for. Their lack of sympathy for his situation was noted.

+2 Nathans post as well

[JohnDJasper]

Adam Kokesh is either dangerously stupid or he thinks the public is.  If for no other reason, I have no respect for him because of his pedalling of anti-Assad propaganda.  Scott Creighton has also taken an intense dislike of him as is evident from this December 2012 blog post:

 

Count the Pro-Regime Change Lies from Adam Kokesh

Posted on December 7, 2012 by willyloman

by Scott Creighton

UPDATE: the following is from Adam’s Facebook page. Apparently not everyone drinks the koolaid over there:

Andrew Panken
“So you agree with the numbers put out by the so-called rebels, Adam?
Also, it really seems like you’re saying that Assad should have been
removed a long time ago? Who would have removed him, how and under what
authority?

UPDATE: Now wait, all you Kokeshites…. why are you
all voting for the first one? I’m confused… I thought is was “Adam VS
the man” not Adam IS the man”? You see, that’s the joke… get it? no I
guess you don’t which explains why you’re Kokeshites….

UPDATE: yeah…. right….

UPDATE: Ah… come on… who voted “none”? Adam? Was that you?

—-

It’s almost pointless to highlight the fact that Adam Kokesh is
obviously a disinfo shill and has been since day one. He served for a
year with the 3rd Civil Affairs group in Iraq, propagandizing our
efforts there before and after Fallujah and then he decided for some
strange reason to take his handgun home with him which of course got him
discharged without the possibility of re-enlisting. He then immediately
joins anti-war protests, wearing his military uniform to garner him
attention in the movement and credibility, and becomes a neoliberal
libertarian joining the ranks of the likes of Alex Jones and Ron Paul.

Months ago Kokesh decided to come out against Ron Paul once it became
obvious that he had deliberately aided the nomination process of the
Mormon fall-guy Mitt Romney. He was clearly working to corner that
“disillusioned with Ron” market in order to keep them sipping the
“libertarian’ ideological poison.

Then he seemed to turn on AJ but he recently did a video with Mark
Dice in which they both pretended to have problems with that CIA/Mossad
agent as well but of course, during the entire video all they did was
pay fealty to the fraudster over and over again. It was a limited
hangout critique of a limited hangout agent.

Now he’s out with a video which apparently has garnered a whopping 61
views in which he lies through his teeth about Bashar al-Assad and the
so-called Syrian “civil war”. I tell ya, it sounds like his script was
written by Hillary Clinton. It’s pathetic.

So let’s play this game: count the pro-regime change lies Adam Kokesh tells during his disinfo propaganda video. (Visit the post to see the results of the survey! - JJ)

 

[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HFROmsG-4hE]

[JohnDJasper]

For a recap of the 19 Lies mentioned above:

willyloman, on December 8, 2012 at 3:25 pm said:

so I gotta list them all for you, huh? Well, why not…

1. “The regime was unable to pull off anything other than the ongoing, what have now become “normal” atrocities…”

It has been made clear by MANY sources that the ongoing atrocities
have been committed by Hillary’s “FSA” and even she admits that. So his
insinuation that the Syrian government is doing it, is absolutely false

2. “… that so far have claimed over 40,000 lives”

This one is based entirely on the London based Syrian Observatory for
Human Rights and the FSA “rebels” claims. it is baseless. SOHR is run
by a guy using a fake name and his agenda is to help London recolonize
Syria

3. “The fighting that was previously restricted to the outer areas of the country…”

The “professional jihadists” have been hit and running throughout the
entire nation for quite a while now. They actually had an assault on
Damascus 3 months ago which, if you remember, they lost miserably. They
have been shelling with mortar rounds various places throughout the
country. If you remember a year ago when the peace keeping mission was
attacked, they were attacked in and around Damascus and the whole
nation. Again, this statement of his could be based on ignorance, but
later he says..

4. “… but now it’s starting to get a little closer to home…”

The lie here is to present the “rebels” as winning or at least as
putting up some kind of real resistance, which they aren’t. They are
just terrorists fighting an “unconventional warfare operation.”

5. “… for the embattled dictator…”

Bashar al-Assad is not a dictator. He has brought several reforms
forward in the years past and won what amounts to a vote of confidence
from his people. The VAST majority of the people of his country support
him and the direction the country is going in. But like Gadhafi and
Castro and Chavez, when on dares to oppose our “national interests”
(corporations and banking system and the petro-dollar) then you become a
“dictator” kinda like Morsi is now.

Our country doesn’t hate on dictators because we just love all that
“freedom” we promise the world (and don’t seem to like here in the
states). Here’s a short list of dictators whom we liked, installed, and
supported as long as we could (SHORT LIST):

Mubarak, the Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Ben Ali (Tunisia), the Saudi
royal family, Suharto (Indonesia), Botha (South Africa), Diem (Vietnam),
Franco (Spain), Somosa Garcia (Nicaragua), Papa Doc (Haiti), Baby Doc
(Haiti), Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan), Saleh (Yemen)….

And that is just a small list. These are people who are hated by
their populations and rule their countries for the benefit of US
interests. You can Adolf Hitler to that list as well till he went too
far in his world conquest plans. The Bush family just loved him to
death.

6. “… it seems the tide is decisively turned…”

The tide has only turned in so much that they are now planning to use
a chemical weapons false flag to justify a NATO invasion without a UN
security council resolution.

7. “… and we can call this one for the (8.) rebels”

Two lies here… obviously you can’t call this one for the “rebels”
because they are losing on all fronts. And they are terrorists not
rebels.

9. “either way Assad is out…”

No, he isn’t

10. “… and has been covertly seeking asylum opportunities…in Cuba, (11.) Venezuela, and (12.) Ecuador “

No he isn’t. That is part and parcel of destabilization psyops,
trying to make the targeted population think that their government is
falling apart and their leader is abandoning them. Not true. Assad is
still there and has no plans to leave. Direct lie on his behalf. Several
lies there with each country (the list is of countries the corporate
industrial complex does not like)

13. “… where Syria’s deputy foreign minister has delivered letters to foreign ministers”

Syria’s deputy foreign minister just said that Syria would never use
chemical weapons against the Syrian people. So I don’t know where this
comes from…

“Assad’s deputy foreign minister Faisal Maqdad said Thursday that
they would never kill Syrians with chemical weapons, dismissing the
Western intelligence reports as “theater.”" NBC News

“I guess Muslims don’t like it when you kill a bunch of
self-righteous Muslims… (14.) so he’s not trying to stay too close to
home”

Kinda racist as well as a lie. Assad has no intention of leaving.

15. “What are the odds he will make a clean getaway after the SLAUGHTER”

The people committing the “slaughter” are the “professional
jihadists” hired by state department and NATO, and I have already shown
that there are more than enough examples of even the state department
admitting that.

16. “… if only they enforced this BEFORE they NEEDED to be violently overthrown…”

If only indeed. Then, we could run around and kill off everyone who
doesn’t bend to the will of our “national interests”. He doesn’t NEED to
be “violently overthrown”… and the “rebels” our “antiwar” hero is
praising are actually not violently overthrowing him, they are attacking
civilians and infrastructure and industry, just like their friends in
the SOCOM teach them to do (see “unconventional warfare manual” for
details)

17. “… in costly civil wars…”

Obviously this is NOT a civil war. He himself already admitted that
it was being funded and backed by outside forces driven toward regime
change. So even he knows that is a lie…

“Assad has vowed to live and die in Syria…”

So he knows all the shit he claimed about Assad planning to leave is also bullshit lies, right?

“.. which is much more likely for him if he decides to stay much longer”

The disgusting Hillaryesque smirk on his face while he makes that
statement should be enough for each and every one of his fans to
understand exactly what he is… disinfo agent working to support the
imperialist regime change agenda for the corporate interests and the
global banking industry.

(18. and 19.)The first two I counted are from his opening remarks
about us not knowing “how or who or why” the Syrian internet and
communication lines went down… in fact, we do know, the “FSA rebels”
attacked their communications networks just like they have been
targeting the state run TV stations across the country.

So, there you have it… 19 lies told by “antiwar” Adam Kokesh in
support of Hillary Clinton imperialist regime change agenda in Syria.

[DaisyAnarchist]

Ditto nathanm's post. 

I watched about 6-7 minutes and think I've got the gist of what's going on. I get the feeling from Adam that he's speaking from an emotional place about this situation. He does this from time to time. He's frustrated that he was ignored by prominent libertarian figures when he put himself out there and got arrested, and decided to take it out on the more inactive libertarians, even though they've done nothing in particular to hurt him or hold him back from his goals. A lot of us like to quietly support him in the background. Not that I'm defending sitting around all the time, but even that in itself is rebellious against government. Just by not partaking in this system, libertarians (particularly anarchists) are doing the movement a favor. All the people who buy a little silver, bitcoin, grow their own food, work under-the-table jobs, donate to libertarians and watch/support the material, raise children peacefully etc. are helping. 

Not everyone can be Adam Kokesh and go out on the streets protesting. He is attempting to push an "ought" onto people. 

A big part of libertarianism's appeal is that we don't want to tell people how to live their lives. I can understand that he's hurt by Rockwell and Napolitano, but he should vent honestly about it and be done with it. Not everyone's going to respond to his actions the way he wants them to.

Of course, these are mainly intuitive thoughts about Kokesh. I could be wrong. 

If the liberty movement ever reaches a crossroads, I think it would more likely be between minarchists and anarchists. I don't feel threatened by minarchists though, if anything I'm glad they're within the same range of logical reasoning. They just need to take it a little further, but that would be their prerogative. 

[MysterionMuffles]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a little doubtful of Adam's methods. Seems kinda reckless to me. The dancing at Jefferson Hall was great, show the whole world how cops abuse power to enforce an inconsequential "crime," and the weed march...ehh yes that's good too, but the general populace will find his arrest a little more justified just because it had much to do with something already illegal from the get go. 

I dunno, intentionally getting arrested all the time is counter intuitive. Yes, he is revealing how irrationally he will get attacked by cops, but he seems to be asking for it quite a lot.

[PatrickC]

Hmmn, for a critique of Adam, it would seem that this Scott Creighton has a lot to learn. Baseless assertion, logical fallacy, strawman, poisioning of the well and ad hominem that verges on character assination are not evidence of anything.

Adam does some crazy stuff sometimes and could probably do with a rational critique from time to time. However, I'd sooner listen to a man that follows the NAP as his principle, than a self professed 'everyman' who would gladly use magical bits of paper (law) to put me in a cage.

[JohnDJasper]

 

Hmmn, for a critique of Adam, it would seem that this Scott Creighton has a lot to learn. Baseless assertion, logical fallacy, strawman, poisioning of the well and ad hominem that verges on character assination are not evidence of anything.

Adam does some crazy stuff sometimes and could probably do with a rational critique from time to time. However, I'd sooner listen to a man that follows the NAP as his principle, than a self professed 'everyman' who would gladly use magical bits of paper (law) to put me in a cage.

 

That's an odd retort to make but I suppose your laundry list of criticisms is based on some facts that you don't care to share or you're just putting branding before substance.  Kokesh's plan to invade DC with guns would have put a lot of people in a cage although not Kokesh because he wouldn't have been there having decided that his followers didn't need a leader.

I would rather listen to a person who has called it right on every major event in the last 5 years that I've been reading his blog. Creighton doesn't preach which philosophy people should follow but spends a lot of time flagging up the flaws of prominent movements.  If you think you have a valid point to make, post it as a comment on his blog and give him an opportunity to rebut it. One of you might learn something.