I need parenting advice....Help

[Mellony]

I have 2 boys that I have issues with that I need some advice dealing with.

First, I have a 8 yr old boy who is very over emotional.  His father and I are divorced and while we were together, my ex was very violent.  He occasionally spanked the boys and beat our dog in front of them and had a very viotile temper.  Whenever my ex would raise his voice, my 8 yr old would immediately start crying and go put his head in his lap.  He always told me he was scared, but he knew that my ex always wanted him to be a man, be tough.  If one of his oder brothers upset him, he cries.  If he gets his feelings hurt, he cries.  And it's not easy to get him out of these moods.  I try cuddling him and talk to him about what happened that made him be upset but it seems like it takes hours for him to come out of the mood.  What else can I do?  

A lot of times he cries because something isn't fair.  Like if one of his older brothers get invited to a party, he cries becasue he didn't get invited.  And then he goes over the top and starts feeling sorry for himself by saying, I never get invited to parties or I didn't get to do that, it's not fair, etc.  How do I deal with that.  His father was the same way?  I like to think I'm not that way, but I'm sure I have said things like that in the past.  I am human after all.  

My other boy is 7...He is almost the complete opposite of the other boy.  Hr rarely gets upset, but when he does, he acts just like his father.  Pushes things, he has thrown some things, slams doors and screams.  I know he gets this behavior from his dad.  His dad did this all the time.  I don't know how to stop this behavior.  When he finally gets over his temper tantrum, he says what a bad kid he is....I have never ever said anything like that to him.  Where did this come from???  What do I do?????

[emilia]

I have a couple thoughts about the 8 year old.

 

 

First, I have a 8 yr old boy who is very over emotional.  His father and I are divorced and while we were together, my ex was very violent.  He occasionally spanked the boys and beat our dog in front of them and had a very viotile temper.  Whenever my ex would raise his voice, my 8 yr old would immediately start crying and go put his head in his lap.  He always told me he was scared, but he knew that my ex always wanted him to be a man, be tough.  If one of his oder brothers upset him, he cries.  If he gets his feelings hurt, he cries.  And it's not easy to get him out of these moods.  I try cuddling him and talk to him about what happened that made him be upset but it seems like it takes hours for him to come out of the mood.  What else can I do?

 

I think part of the problem might be that you are thinking of him as over emotional instead of just having emotions, and that you view his sad moods as something that you need to get him out of. I think he cries, because he has had a sad life / sad experiences. It is good that he cries, it means he is in touch with his emotions. My advice to you is to just let him cry for as long as it takes, even if it takes hours, days, weeks, months... He probably feels that you view his crying as something he shouldn't do, just like his father did, but he still can't stop crying (I assume he tries to), which makes him feel like a failure, which makes him cry even more...

 

A lot of times he cries because something isn't fair.  Like if one of
his older brothers get invited to a party, he cries becasue he didn't
get invited.  And then he goes over the top and starts feeling sorry for
himself by saying, I never get invited to parties or I didn't get to do
that, it's not fair, etc.

 

This isn't a description of something that isn't fair, but of something that he thinks is not fair. Did you notice that?

[Jose Perez]

 

If he gets his feelings hurt, he cries.  And it's not easy to get him out of these moods.  I try cuddling him and talk to him about what happened that made him be upset but it seems like it takes hours for him to come out of the mood.  

 

If you are talking to him with the purpose of getting him out of the mood you are not being curious about his feeling upset. And he is likely to be crying to get the cuddle and the attention, just like the other boy.

 

 

A lot of times he cries because something isn't fair.  Like if one of his older brothers get invited to a party, he cries becasue he didn't get invited.  And then he goes over the top and starts feeling sorry for himself by saying, I never get invited to parties or I didn't get to do that, it's not fair, etc.  How do I deal with that.  His father was the same way?  I like to think I'm not that way, but I'm sure I have said things like that in the past.  I am human after all.  

(...)

What else can I do? 

 

You can assume responsibility. Saying "I am human" is not assuming responsibility.

 

My other boy is 7...He is almost the complete opposite of the other boy.  Hr rarely gets upset, but when he does, he acts just like his father.  Pushes things, he has thrown some things, slams doors and screams.  I know he gets this behavior from his dad.  His dad did this all the time.  I don't know how to stop this behavior.  When he finally gets over his temper tantrum, he says what a bad kid he is....I have never ever said anything like that to him.  Where did this come from???  

 

It probably comes from you. Do you not feel or think he is a bad kid for doing that anyway?

 

[Mellony]

 

 

If he gets his feelings hurt, he cries.  And it's not easy to get him out of these moods.  I try cuddling him and talk to him about what happened that made him be upset but it seems like it takes hours for him to come out of the mood.  

 

If you are talking to him with the purpose of getting him out of the mood you are not being curious about his feeling upset. And he is likely to be crying to get the cuddle and the attention, just like the other boy.

 

 

 

A lot of times he cries because something isn't fair.  Like if one of his older brothers get invited to a party, he cries becasue he didn't get invited.  And then he goes over the top and starts feeling sorry for himself by saying, I never get invited to parties or I didn't get to do that, it's not fair, etc.  How do I deal with that.  His father was the same way?  I like to think I'm not that way, but I'm sure I have said things like that in the past.  I am human after all.  

(...)

What else can I do? 

 

You can assume responsibility. Saying "I am human" is not assuming responsibility.

 

My other boy is 7...He is almost the complete opposite of the other boy.  Hr rarely gets upset, but when he does, he acts just like his father.  Pushes things, he has thrown some things, slams doors and screams.  I know he gets this behavior from his dad.  His dad did this all the time.  I don't know how to stop this behavior.  When he finally gets over his temper tantrum, he says what a bad kid he is....I have never ever said anything like that to him.  Where did this come from???  

 

It probably comes from you. Do you not feel or think he is a bad kid for doing that anyway? 

 

I do talk to him to find out what's wrong and to get him out of the mood.  When he cries about never getting invited to parties and I know he has, I remind him that he has been invited before but he just keeps saying he hasn't....I want to know a way that I can teach him to not think like that. I would love to figure out how to keep him from getting so negative.  That is something I don't understand, because I am rarely ever negative.  

I said, "I'm only human" to imply that I am not perfect, I'm sure I've done some things that would not be helpful to a child, just as I am sure you have made the same mistakes or will make with your children.  None of us are perfect and we will all make mistakes.  And I do take responsibility for my short comings which is partially the reason why I am asking for advice.  

And I do not feel like he is a bad kid at all!!!  I've been trying to pay closer attention to my actions and words to make sure he doesn't get that impression from me.  When he says he's a bad kid, I always explain to him why he's not bad...because I honestly in no way, shape, or form think hes a bad kid.  Everyone has bad days and make mistakes and he has every right to make mistakes and needs to make them to learn.     

I feel like you are being very judgemental....you don't know anything about me and it seems like you are assuming I am some monster mother.  I try everyday to overcome the things that have happened to me in the past and make sure I don't do the same things with my kids.   

[Jose Perez]

 

I do talk to him to find out what's wrong and to get him out of the mood.

 

As I said, the goal of getting him out of the mood is not compatible with finding out what's wrong. In order to find out what's wrong you have to be curious, which should be independent of what you want to get from him or what mood you would like to see him in. In fact, being curious with him will probably make him cry differently or put him in a mood that you cannot predict (and yourself).

 

 When he cries about never getting invited to parties and I know he has, I remind him that he has been invited before but he just keeps saying he hasn't....I want to know a way that I can teach him to not think like that. I would love to figure out how to keep him from getting so negative.  That is something I don't understand, because I am rarely ever negative.  

 

There is a reason he is negative and it has to do with how he has been brought up, not with him thinking in "wrong" ways. You cannot teach a person what to think or not to think, but you can find out why he thinks that way.

 

I said, "I'm only human" to imply that I am not perfect, I'm sure I've done some things that would not be helpful to a child, just as I am sure you have made the same mistakes or will make with your children.  None of us are perfect and we will all make mistakes.  And I do take responsibility for my short comings which is partially the reason why I am asking for advice.  

 

That's really great, but when you ask for advice here you are making it sound like the responsibility is his (theirs) not yours. I can only go by the statements you write here. You say they have a problem and that you are not like that, that you never show that, etc. This is what I mean by your not taking responsibility – for the cause of their being that way, which is in the past, not for making them change their moods now.

 

And I do not feel like he is a bad kid at all!!!  I've been trying to pay closer attention to my actions and words to make sure he doesn't get that impression from me.  When he says he's a bad kid, I always explain to him why he's not bad...because I honestly in no way, shape, or form think hes a bad kid.  Everyone has bad days and make mistakes and he has every right to make mistakes and needs to make them to learn.

 

Children do not naturally show that kind of aggressiveness. He has every reason to think he is a bad kid, as would any person he behaved like that towards. I think that's a good sign: he knows there is something wrong with himself and is seeking your attention to find out, but if every time that happens you focus on denying the (bad) reality of his behaviour he is never going to take you seriously. I think you exculpate him in the same way you exculpate yourself.

 

I feel like you are being very judgemental....you don't know anything about me and it seems like you are assuming I am some monster mother.  I try everyday to overcome the things that have happened to me in the past and make sure I don't do the same things with my kids.  

 

I really appreciate your trying. I'm just giving you my opinion, which is not the same as being judgemental, let alone calling you a monster. Conversations on a message board are limited.

[DaisyAnarchist]

It sounds like your boys are still experiencing the trauma that was done to them when you were in that abusive relationship. Your goal should not be to "get them in x state of mind" or to "how to stop x behavior." I think your goal should be discovery, and as someone else stated, you should approach your sons with curioristy. I think you are (understandably) looking for results, but I don't think that doing so will help at all. Don't look at the mood swings as needing correction. They should be opporunities for figuring out what your sons are feeling in that moment, and trying to connect that to the trauma they've been through. You did state that you talk to at least one of them, but what kind of talking do you do? Do you feel impatient by how long it takes for them to figure themselves out? Have you tried connecting the moods to what happened in the past? 

I ask the last question because I believe the expressive son is upset with something else about his life that doesn't seem fair. I don't think it has as much to do with being invited to parties. I believe there is something deeper that is unfair to him that he cannot verbally understand or externalize. 

The other son is harder for me to figure out. It sounds like he went more in shut-down mode because of the violent nature of the father, and only expresses himself in a flurry of emotions when he can no longer contain all the negativity. Ask him what he feels in that situation, why he thinks he feels that way, and what he really wants. You may not get immediate results, but I think doing this with persistence will be helpful. Also, perhaps asking yourself questions regarding how you feel about your past relationship would contribute to the learning experience. I think anything that helps you will help your sons. 

Hope something works out for you and your children.  

[Mellony]

 Thanks for all your help and advice....I'm new at this and trying hard to get things right.  I feel confused about all of it.   [:S]

[DaisyAnarchist]

That's understandable. I can only say so much on parenting as I don't have kids, but if you would like to vent or talk or anything, I'm available for that. 

[Al]

 I am a parent. DaisyAnarchist is dead right, and I like the way she expresses herself.

[Jason K]

You could try apologizing to your children for what your ex did to them. That would be a good start I think.

[Josh F]

I don't get it, you say "I know he gets this behavior from his dad" and in the same paragraph "Where did this come from???"

If I can be really frank, what it sounds like is that you severely abused your children, and have put up this wall of "my ex did it" when the truth is that you had an equal part.  And it is great that you're here, moving on, trying to learn new things.  The first thing is a fair evaluation of the trauma you've induced, trying to raise children in a violent home means a lot of things about you.  Blaming your ex and the children will not serve you to prevent abusing them in the future.

 

I know you feel judged already, but that is in direct response of you NOT holding yourself accountable anywhere in this thread.  Like you, many of us here have been similarly abused, and spent a lot of time and pain and energy working on ourselves.  It is easy for us to pick up on the defensiveness in your language.  You've said things are everyone else's fault except your own, and you've asked for help to change those behaviors which you don't like.

Do you feel guilty?  And how do you contend with your guilt?  Do you tell the kids "you're like your father" or "this is your father's fault"?  Do you scream at them?  Do you cry? Help us fill in the picture a little better please.

 

And some family therapy might be really useful.  School trauma councilors will meet with students when their friends die, and police with assign psychologists to rape victims.  What about someone your kids can talk to?

[ROLLNSONG]

Mellony, for some excellent resources and tools start with the books "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, And How to Listen so Kids Will Talk" & "Liberated Parents, Liberated Children" both by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. These books will give you the exact answers you're looking for. But don't forget, once you learn the skills, use them.

Of course, Stef also has a plethora of excellent podcasts on how to treat your children. If you really want to make things right these are your starting points.

[bootoo]

http://www.mindfuleducation.org/mindfulnessforchildren.pdf

[LovePrevails]