Stef should talk about things like transgender, Homosexuality, Bisexuality, Etc!

[Miss Valeska]

I love Stef! He has the best insights and philosophical and physcological explainations! I think it would be EXTREMELY valuable to a LOT of people if he talked about other things he has really never talked about. Like, Transgender, Different sexualities like homosexuality, And other things too. Although, I really want him to read and ask about these things first. I don't want him to have any wrong ideas which could really hurt people.

[STer]

 

I love Stef! He has the best insights and philosophical and physcological explainations! I think it would be EXTREMELY valuable to a LOT of people if he talked about other things he has really never talked about. Like, Transgender, Different sexualities like homosexuality, And other things too. Although, I really want him to read and ask about these things first. I don't want him to have any wrong ideas which could really hurt people.

 

My guess is that he wouldn't have much to say about the social issues around these things. The non-aggression principle, which he supports, simply would lead to the conclusion that people can do what they like as long as they are not initiating force or coercion on anyone else.

If you want him to speak on the psychological roots of these issues, that could be interesting, although I imagine he would defer to the researchers who work on these issues as to their causes and dynamics.

But of course he can speak for himself Just my guess of what he might have to say in case he doesn't get around to it.

[Miss Valeska]

Physcological roots of these issues? That sounds, Vaugely insulting.

[STer]

 

Physcological roots of these issues? That sounds, Vaugely insulting.

 

There is nothing insulting about it. Every single thing human beings do has psychological roots. Otherwise our minds would not be capable of them. I guess it's a measure of how stigmatized psychology itself has become if the very notion that something has psychological roots is seen as insulting. To be clear, biopsychology is a field of psychology too. So even if you believe these issues are biological, that biology is still mediated through the psyche.

Besides which, other than the social issues involved, which would likely just boil down to the non-aggression principle for Stefan, what else could you want to be discussed about these topics than their psychology and dynamics?

[STer]

Let me add one more clarification because I think I realized why you reacted as you did. The field of psychology doesn't only study psychopathology, aka abnormal psychology. It also studies normal healthy psychology. Saying that something has psychological roots does not mean it is pathological. It simply means that it involves the mind in some way. We can study the psychology of love or artistic achievement just as much as the psychology of depression or psychosis. And we can certainly study the psychology of various sexual orientations and gender identities without at all claiming there is anything pathological about them at all.

I hope that clears things up.

[Miss Valeska]

That is a lot of explaination, It is insulting because you called someone being attracted to someone of the same sex an "issue". That is all.

[STer]

 

That is a lot of explaination, It is insulting because you called someone being attracted to someone of the same sex an "issue". That is all.

 

I'd appreciate if you stop making false accusations or implications. It is unmerited and rude. I explained my stance thoroughly in the last couple posts due to your own misinterpretation of what I said. If you are out there just looking for people to twist their words so you can be offended, I would prefer you look elsewhere.

[STer]

Hey look at this page

http://www.lgbtmap.org/effective-messaging/talking-about-lgbt-issues-series

An organization dedicated to promoting LGBT....wait what's that word....oh yeah, issues. The word "issues" is used all the time within the LGBT community itself, even by their fiercest advocates. Why? Because it's an accurate word. These topics involve many issues. If they didn't, you'd not be asking Stefan to talk about those...issues.

So again, stop going out of your way looking for ways to pick at words to make yourself offended. Or if you are offended, then please go complain to all the LGBT groups that work on LGBT "issues".

[Miss Valeska]

....? Okay, Uhhh, I'll just leave then?....

[Miss Valeska]

I wish there was a way to delete posts, I really didn't need some guy saying a bunch of random stuff on a suggestion I was making for stef...

[STer]

 

I wish there was a way to delete posts, I really didn't need some guy saying a bunch of random stuff on a suggestion I was making for stef...

 

This is a forum, not your personal email with Stef. I'm also pretty irritated. I thought I was being kind because I knew it was unlikely Stefan would get around to your concerns since he is so busy with so many things lately. So I decided to take the time to at least give you some feedback. I thought you'd appreciate that someone was listening and open to talking. Boy was that a mistake.

I also had to laugh at the idea that what I said was "random stuff" when it was laser targeted to the topics you raised. I'm getting the feeling, as I said, that you're just looking for reasons to be offended. I don't know why but you're aiming them at the wrong person. I have a feeling if not for the miscommunication that sometimes takes place in writing as opposed to other forms of communication you'd realize that pretty quickly.

Anyway, I guess we can just end this thread here if you wish.

[RestoringGuy]

I too think it's fair to at least discuss psychological roots and the necessity to make it an issue.  In online discussion with restoring men, I have heard some say they feel circumcision made them gay, or at least predisposed them to avoidance and extreme emotional difficulty with women.  Really how can it be psychologically easy to be a straight man while knowing most American women prefer to mutilate baby boys?   When child abuse is involved, there is tendency to hide it from the discussion.  Stef has podcasted before, and roughly seemed to say based on a small sampling of discussions, that child abuse is a possible factor in sexual orientation.  My thinking is that we only feel safe when other people have ideas similar to our own.

[STer]

 

I too think it's fair to at least discuss psychological roots and the necessity to make it an issue.  In online discussion with restoring men, I have heard some say they feel circumcision made them gay, or at least predisposed them to avoidance and extreme emotional difficulty with women.  Really how can it be psychologically easy to be a straight man while knowing most American women prefer to mutilate baby boys?   When child abuse is involved, there is tendency to hide it from the discussion.  Stef has podcasted before, and roughly seemed to say based on a small sampling of discussions, that child abuse is a possible factor in sexual orientation.  My thinking is that we only feel safe when other people have ideas similar to our own.

 

This is not even close to what I meant. I didn't mean a single thing other than that we could talk about the topics OP mentioned exactly as she suggested. That's it. All of this reading in beyond that is taking this thread absurdly off the rails. This is a great example of what happens when people project their own biases onto something completely neutral. I was not in any way saying or implying anything particular about the nature of these topics. I was only saying that yes they could be talked about (meaning the general topics OP raised). And I already made clear that when I mentioned the psychological roots, I did NOT mean that there is anything wrong or pathological about any of these situations. I simply meant that EVERY human state has psychology associated with it and I thought that might be what OP was hoping for Stefan to talk about. Psychology does NOT equal psychopathology.

[RestoringGuy]

I also did not say they were "equal', but they are necessarily linked.  I do not see how to discuss psychology without discussing such boundaries.  Do you believe psychology and psychopathology can simply be distinguished by some objective test we will always be able to follow?  Is there some clear and scientific way, absent of all human bias and arbitrary judgement, to know exactly what behaviors are called pathological?

[STer]

 

I also did not say they were "equal', but they are necessarily linked.  I do not see how to discuss psychology without discussing such boundaries.  Do you believe psychology and psychopathology can simply be distinguished by some objective test we will always be able to follow?  Is there some clear and scientific way, absent of all human bias and arbitrary judgement, to know exactly what behaviors are called pathological?

 

I have literally never seen a thread get this derailed and off track. I'm not even participating in this thread anymore.

[Pepin]

I've noticed a few interesting things about LBGT, that I feel would be helpful if addressed. For instance, there is the belief in the argument that focuses on being LBGT not being a choice. I understand fully that it iss almost a fact that LBGT is vastly not a choice, but the argument is detrimental when using in trying to convince someone is bigoted, as it implies that if it was a choice that there would be a something wrong with choosing to be LBGT.

If someone says that blacks are [negative term], you ought not to respond with "they do not choose the color they are born with", as this would partially vindicate someone in their prejudice. Furthermore, it completely sidesteps the irrational and detrimental thinking that contributes to their prejudice.

I get the sense that many people come to terms with their sexuality through the thought that it isn't in the realm of their choosing, and that if it was somehow proven that LBGT was a choice, that they would have a negative reaction.

First, the idea of coming to terms with your sexuality does not make sense if it is a description of something you do not choose, and only needs to occur because of the culture, and to a degree some LBGT advocates. You should only have to explain to someone that they do not have control over the skin color only if they believe they have control over their skin color.

Second, I do not believe the aspect of choice ought to at all be focus on how one feels about their sexuality, because this concept is never useful in regards to any other unchosen preference.

There is also this idea of having pride in your sexuality, which really doesn't make sense, especially if a major premise is that it is not a choice.

I believe that it is important to not frame LBGT issues around the current societal norms, yet rather to frame them in the way that they are likely to be presented in the future.

[GrungeGuy]

I would like to hear a series on anarchism and minority issues, including sexual minorities and other marginalized groups. Being in a very "progressive" graduate school, I am seeing just how much left politics and academics have poured into convincing everyone that the state is on their side and is the only effective way to getting better treatment. Academics and left politics are selling marxism in a "multi-cultural" mask and telling a horror story about how much worse bigotry and exploitation would be without the state.

I think it would be really great to get some simple, concise arguments on how the state is destructive for people specific to groups like sexual and racial minorities, as well as how leftists in politics and academia use concepts such as multi-culturalism, power, privilege, exploitation, and oppression to distract away from statism, divide and conquer people, exploit psychological projection, empower the state, etc...

[MysterionMuffles]

Good choice, I really can't see why anyone qould get defensive from what you said.

[RestoringGuy]

I think it would be really great to get some simple, concise arguments on how the state is destructive for people specific to groups like sexual and racial minorities, as well as how leftists in politics and academia use concepts such as multi-culturalism, power, privilege, exploitation, and oppression to distract away from statism, divide and conquer people, exploit psychological projection, empower the state, etc...

It would also seem necessary to discuss why the left much more easily tolerates state and general cultural opposition of prostitution, polygamy, and many other voluntary adult arrangements.