Mother's 'helpful tips for living a better life'

[meeri]

Hi everyone

 

I would really like some feedback on this. 

 

This morning, after missing mums calls yesterday, I got an email from her that included 'helpful tips for a better life', an article that she had extracted from some magazine or website.

 

I sent back a response asking why she felt it was necessary to send me this (we never speak about my feelings, needs or preferences). She said she thought these 'tips' were good and useful.

 

So I sent back a response asking her to give me a bit more detail on why she believes these things. I also gave my view on all these points (in blue). She has not replied yet.

 

This article is not very well written, there are a lot of inconsistencies and some of the context may have gone missing in translation. Looking back now, I could have also thought my own answers through better. I felt quite anxious, fearful and angry reading and responding to this article.

 

I feel this is an opportunity to try to start a conversation with her and for me to get confirmation on her true intentions and feelings towards me and get rid of the doubt I've had so far.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

 

15 opportunities to feel yourself better.pdf

[Wesley]

Hey meeri,

 

I will read through the article and provide what my view of her hidden meaning is. You then should respond and tell me how wrong and unhelpful I was, or with some luck that something resonated.

 

1. To me, this translates as "I cannot stand to think that I am wrong, so I am going to project that feeling onto you." She also projects "destroying the relationship" onto your bringing up the problems, rather than the problems being caused originally.

 

2. Translation: "You trying to hold me accountable for past actions is controlling me."

 

3. Translation: "Do not blame me, blame yourself instead. Way easier that way."

 

4. Translation: "In blaming yourself, dont think you are bad. Instead, just accept it as the way things are. Then you won't want to change."

 

5. Translation: "Once you conform, you will feel free." This is just dissociation though, so in reality is is the opposite of making you free. The only freedome is freedome from illusion.

 

6. Translation: "I don't want to hear about the bad things that happened in your past."

 

7. Translation: "I don't want to hear about the bad things that happened in your past."

 

8. Translation "Be yourself." However, you have to realize that she likely doesn't view your true self as yourseslf. Parents project their wants and desires often onto children. Most likely, this is asking you to be the "self" that she wants you to be. Most likely the self of your past that you are working hard to improve on, get to know, and change- your past dissociated self.

 

9. Translation: "Change. I do not like where things are going, so you need to change."

 

10. Translation: "I don't want to hear about the bad things that happened in your past.", "Do not hold me accountable for past actions." etc.

 

11. Translation: "I am not someone to fear."

 

12. Translation: "You give excuses for not talking to me. I know that they are not true and do not address why you really do not want to talk with me." (This is a little bit of a guess, so I hope it is not totally wrong as I am not aware of your current relationship with your mum.)

 

13. Translation: "Forget what I did and bad things that happened. Let us pretend they didn't."

 

14. Translation: "Forget what I did and bad things that happened. Let us pretend they didn't. You are just stuck in the past and will not move on and forget these things."

 

15. Translation: "I know you and you would not do this, so someone els emust be giving you these ideas. Do not listen to them." This references the projected and dissociated version of you that she wants you to be, and does not view her own expectations as a problem. This projects her expectations onto others saying they are the ones with expectations, I am just family.

 

I did a little switching between talking as myself and as your mother, so I am sorry for that. Let me know what you think, or if this helped at all. It would make sense with thiss frame of mind that such an article would resonate with her. This is a common thing in the "positive thinking" crowd. The goal is to completely dissociate and think happy. I am sure that is the path that she has chosen. I think you also know that this is not the path to true happiness. Best of luck.

[PatrickC]

Hi Meeri,

 

Upon first glance you seemed to counter most of these points rather well. The overall feeling that I got from these bullet points, is that feelings are something to be controlled, ignored or disregarded. The focus seems to be on how the individual is to be blamed for experiencing negative emotions. There is almost no curiosity about an individual’s feelings.

 

For instance in question 9. 

Give up your resistance to change. Change is good. Changes help you to movefrom point A to point B. Changes develop your life and what goes around you.Follow changes with courage. ‘Follow change and the universe will open doorswhere before were only walls’ Joseph Campbell.

 

On the surface this advice seems reasonable enough. Everyone wants to change right? Especially those with ambition and goals for their future life. But the ever so important ingredient to this point that is missing. Why is this individual resistant to change? By saying 'give up on your resistance' encourages the reader to neglect an important aspect about themselves that probably requires more empathy and less admonishment. This lack of curiosity does seem to be a general theme throughout this questionnaire.

 

"Looking back now, I could have also thought my own answers through better. I felt quite anxious, fearful and angry reading and responding to this article."

 

Well it is your mother that you're writing these responses too of course and it was her that sent you the questionnaire in the first place. If like you say, you rarely discuss your feelings together, then this could be considered as unusual. Did you have any possible conclusions as to why you might have felt fear and anger responding to your mother.

[Duderio]

goodbye

[meeri]

Hi Wesley

 

this is great, thank you. I definitely got the whole 'get back into your box theme'

 

1. I agree, she's definitely telling me that 'You're wrong and you're the cause of our problems'. It's no coincidence that this is the first point she made

 

2. Indeed. And 'just let everything be and don't bring up anything that may cause problems'

 

3. Spot on, only I'm to blame

 

4. Yes, that's a very good way of looking at it. I also feel she's trying get rid of her own negative and self-critical thoughts because she can't handle them

 

5. I feel this is just trying to get me to focus on 'believe in the universe' and nonsense like that rather than what actually matters

 

6. Yes, and 'only you are to blame for what happened'

 

7. Same

 

8. Very good point. In the past when I didn't conform, she told me to be 'normal' which clearly doesn't indicate any interest in my true self

 

9. Very well put, I didn't get this at first

 

10. I agree

 

11. Another way of discrediting my feelings

 

12. This one was a bit muddled, I felt it was similar to 'you have only yourself to blame'. I don't think she really has any interest in facing why I don't want to talk to her.

 

13. Spot on

 

14. Absolutely

 

15. This one was confusing as it does mention 'parents' as source of demands- like shooting herself in the foot. This is very interesting, she knows I am interested in therapy and may feel threatened by it. I think she's also saying 'I'm only going to listen to myself anyway so you might as well stop trying'

 

This was very helpful Wesley, thank you:)

But the ever so important ingredient to this point that is missing. Why is this individual resistant to change? 

 

Thank you xelent.

 

i definitely felt like she's desperately trying to get me to conform.

 

The change one was tricky for me, I really didn't get this at first. So it's really another way of telling me I shouldn't be stuck in the past?

 

I actually managed to do a mini-IFS session on myself after this and feel I'm starting to understand it better. The fear goes back to when I was yelled at as a child, perhaps even spanked, when I was less than 2 years old. I feel like I had just started crawling but these may not be real memories. And the angry part is protecting that child.

That alone is troubling. She seems very controlling. Do you have regular weekly call appointments? 

 

I can maybe miss two or three of her calls but then she gets really nervous and either starts calling more or..does this

[Wesley]

I am glad it was helpful.

 

I also certainly stretched some of my translations more than others, but that could be attributed to selectivity, a small admittance of guilt from the true self seeping through, or (most liekly) an inability to find a 100% perfect article.

 

Regardless of the minutae, I think you got the general goal of sending the article. "Getting you back in the box" which at a maximum would be running back to her in compliance to the end of days and to fully dissociate into "happiness", and at a minimum would lead to you interacting with her when she was scared that you weren't.

 

I am sorry that you had to deal with this kind of manipulation. I have a bit of experience with it, and when I have to deal with it, it is not a very enjoyable experience.

[PatrickC]

"i definitely felt like she's desperately trying to get me to conform.

 

The change one was tricky for me, I really didn't get this at first. So it's really another way of telling me I shouldn't be stuck in the past?

 

I actually managed to do a mini-IFS session on myself after this and feel I'm starting to understand it better. The fear goes back to when I was yelled at as a child, perhaps even spanked, when I was less than 2 years old. I feel like I had just started crawling but these may not be real memories. And the angry part is protecting that child."

Well sadly the spanking does seem to indicate why there may have been an emotional distance between yourself and your mother and I'm sorry to hear about that too. If like you might be suggesting, this article was an unconscious action of your mothers. Rather than trying to stick you in the past, I am tempted to say that she wants you to forget about the past entirely. But hey, I'm no therapist of course, so take my words lightly.

 

Just to let you know how I felt about this article generally. It angered me, because it leaves the poor sufferer experiencing emotions that this article suggests they should 'just get over'. Whilst it's true that self improvement comes with a struggle, it doesn't come from self flagellation and sternly telling ones emotions they do not exist. It comes from taking them seriously and showing them sympathy where it's deserved. You seem to know that already I think, given your interest in IFS.

 

How much my thoughts have to do with your relationship with your mother, I don't know. I do think it's a pivotal moment for you both perhaps (hence some of the fear maybe). But best wishes with that conversation and I hope you get some useful insight.

[Kawlinz]

What would it have been like if you gave your mother this article when you were 5?

[meeri]

Rather than trying to stick you in the past, I am tempted to say that she wants you to forget about the past entirely.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Uncomfortable things have always been kind of just brushed under that carpet, ignored, not spoken of, so it makes sense that what she expects is for me to just forget and pretend nothing happened.

 

I do think it's a pivotal moment for you both perhaps (hence some of the fear maybe). But best wishes with that conversation and I hope you get some useful insight.

 

I think so too, I feel I am finally ready to push this further and no longer pretend everything is okay so I will try to RTR with her. Although I have a sense of where this might be going.

 

Thanks a lot for your input xelent:)

What would it have been like if you gave your mother this article when you were 5?

 

Very interesting question. Brought back some memories. I would have been punished in some way for sure..

[Jeremi]

I agree with the general sentiment, this is "get back in my box" narcissistic behavior. The worst offense was the "forget the past" bit which basically means, "absolve me of any responsibility for your current predicament". My mother is the same way, she even likes to quote the same people: "Do I prefer to be right or do I prefer to be a nice person?" - Wayne Dyer. The level of manipulation there goes really deep, and it shows the desperation your mother may be starting to feel as the old mythologies between you two surely collapse brick by brick.

 

So sorry for what you are facing now Meeri.

[MysterionMuffles]

Yeah that is very manipulative. The whole, you gotta live in the moment, the now, movement is tricky. Being present really has its merits, but when an interaction is strained and brings up harsh feelings, being present can only take you so far. Interactions in the prese are a result of continuous interactions over time, building upon eachother the very fabric of tone future interactions to come. You tug on that fabric to see if its made of solid material, and maybe it unravels and comes undone because each weave was not as carefully knit as you may have thought it had.

 

Simply put yes you cant live in the past, but the people who tell you not to in a moment of emotional vulnerability is insulting your capacity to act within the context of present interactions being a result of past interactions. Whats worse is that they unconsciously touch wounds of old to make you react in such a way. Or maybe its conscious but either way, they use that forget the past tactic to avoid responsibility.

 

Sorry if Im not telling you anything new and that Im beating around the bush with metaphors but...i guess its just tough for me to simply say that Im sorry that you have been subjugated to such subtle cruelty--and that I can totally empathize with you. When I bring up things to my mom and what she did to me as a kid she says that she doesnt remember, which I would try to forgive if only she wouldnt go so far as to say I just imagined these things. What an insult to my sense of memory and absolute disregard of my feelings right? This kind of storytelling is counter productive.

 

Your best bet and my own really is to RTR as to "tug on the fabric" of our relationships. Best of luck to you when you have that conversation.a

[meeri]

When I bring up things to my mom and what she did to me as a kid she says that she doesnt remember, which I would try to forgive if only she wouldnt go so far as to say I just imagined these things. What an insult to my sense of memory and absolute disregard of my feelings right?

 

I am so sorry your mother is lying to you this way. It is a complete insult and further tries to put the responsibility for the relationship on your shoulders only. Not dealing with the reality of what happened means the same wounds get opened over and over again.

 

I am really touched by the empathy and support in this community. I am sorry that so many of you have had to grow up with this kind of cruel manipulative mothers.

 

I am yet to receive a reply for my yesterday's email. I have a feeling she is trying to take the 'let's pretend this never happened' route. I will keep you updated on what happens next.

[meeri]

I wanted to give you an update on what happened.

 

Surprisingly, mum replied and was quite open to answering some questions, such as why she chose dad, and talking about her own painful childhood experiences. But as soon as I brought up anything to do with my own feelings and childhood I got the textbook 'I can't remember' and 'we did the best we could' and 'i never intended to hurt you', general disbelief and trivialising of the things I brought up. Of course, she threw in more manipulation, such as 'if it makes you feel better to blame me then go ahead and do it'.

 

So, as a result I felt it was important for me to defoo. I have now told both my parents that I don't want them to contact me. Mum said she supported my decision, no doubt because she thinks it's just a phase. Dad didn't even respond.

 

I know many of you have gone through this before and know what a difficult thing it is. I still have a lot of questions and things to work through but this has definitely opened my eyes to the neglect and abuse i experienced, something i couldn't see clearly before. I'd love to hear from people who have defooed, if that's something you'd like to share please let me know

[Wesley]

I am somewhat going through the process. I decided to defoo a while ago, but I am dependent on my parents. So, I am looking to

1. Save Money

2. Find a New Job

3. Get as much therapy as I can (while filling other 3 points)

4. Wait for my girlfriend to get a job (so I can defray costs and such)

 

When these things are accomplished, then I will defoo.

 

About a month ago now, my father was criticizing me for something stupid and irrelevant and I decided I would call him out on how dumb it was. How all he does is criticize me and how he has never said anything nice without 2 criticisms attached. He then ended up arguing for a while and discovering what anger I felt for him. The the words that set me off: "I never did anything wrong."

 

I couldn't let this stand and proceeded to get very angry about the abuse he inflicted on me of spanking, tons of threats, tons and tons of verbal and emotional abuse. No matter what instance I brought up, he had 1 of 3 responses.

 

1. "That's not true, and if you think that, I think you should get out of my house." This helped me realize that my current dependence is completely intentional. He tries to get me to be dependent on me so that I don't have a car, a house, etc so that he can use this ultimate threat of abandonment (childhood death) for non-compliance.

 

2. "Yes, I did do some verbal and emotional abuse, but the physical stuff wasn't true. However it was way worse for me, so you can't complain." Which is an incredibly fallacious argument. It was a way of off-loading blame onto his parents (namely his absent father).

 

3. "I will apologize, and if I do then you need to forget about this and never talk about it again." Of course, this was a complete attempt to avoid the problem and get me into conformity.

 

No matter what problem I came up with, he thought it was solved by him giving me money or supporting me. Or he used the threat of taking away the support to scare me into compliance. However, I could see right through it and call him out on it. I was not scared like I had been in the past.

 

In the end, I had a lot of empathy for me as a child. I realized that any money he promised me in the past or that I was going to get the car was all a lie. He will not give me anything unless he feels like it (despite previous verbal contracts to the contrary). I also know that my dependence was intentional and that I am completely on my own.

 

Thus, I am preparing even faster to accomplish the above steps to lose my dependency and to move out.

 

The next time I saw him he tried to bully me into compliance again. I told him that I did not want to talk about it and that I needed to think about things. He then proceeded to talk about things. His main argument was "I am worried about your soul. God says you need to forgive." You can see how much he cares about me and knows that I am an atheist (saying I am an atheist would be the easiest way to get him out of my life now that I think about it. I decided to use the religious argument against him and said that "forgiveness requires one to admit to and atone for their sins" which pissed him off. I then pointed out that I didn't want to talk about it and here we are talking about it. He then got even more mad and stormed away.

 

The next time he saw me I told him I didn't want to talk yet and he should ask me every day. He said "that wasn't nice" and then left.

 

Since then, I live in the house, but pretty much don't. We have said about 4 words in a month or so since then. My girlfriend had a great interview she is waiting to hear back on, and I am saving up the money i need.

 

I am not sure if any of this helped you or not and I would be happy to answer any questions about what happened. Hopefully something was useful haha.

[meeri]

I also know that my dependence was intentional and that I am completely on my own.

 

 

I'm so sorry Wesley, what a terrible situation to live in. I hope you will be able to accomplish your steps soon.

 

The dependancy thing is very interesting. So he made you intentionally dependent so that he can keep getting what he wants from you? Do you have any siblings? How does your girlfriend respond to all this?

[Wesley]

She had trouble with it in the past as it was a new idea to her, but now that she knows what has happened, she is pretty much in agreement that it is pretty bad and likes the idea of us moving together in some other city. She is also supportive of my going to therapy and doing some of the chats I have with people about psychological things.

 

I have 2 other brothers. In the past, one had move out with a crazy girlfriend. They broke up soon after, but he was on his own until he needed surgery and had to take off work for a bit. Now he's back and being roped in again. My other brother is college and ROTC (which is a whole other pile of crap in itself and the results of my father taking special interest in him, both being 3rd born sons) but he is never around, so also didn't count.

 

Basically, until recently, I was the only one left.

 

He wants me to do work around the house. He is lazy and I am young and strong. He also wants me to do "what is right" which is basically to conform to whatever he wants or what he thinks is best. In the past, this has lead to periods of depression when i realize I am on a path where I don't want the end goal at all.

 

His father abandoned him with 9 kids. 7 boys, 2 girls with a single mother who could barely get enough money for the kids to eat 2/3 of the standard meals. He then went into the military to go to college and worked a ton.

 

He views a father being around, telling kids what to do (as he got no instruction and was left without anything) and providing money is the epitome of fatherhood. I think that him providing money and criticism gives him self-worth as being a good father compared to what he had.

 

So many times in the fight I had a complaint of abuse, he then would bring up money and what he provides to me, and I would say it wasn't about money, and then he would be baffled.

[meeri]

 

He wants me to do work around the house. He is lazy and I am young and strong. He also wants me to do "what is right" which is basically to conform to whatever he wants or what he thinks is best. In the past, this has lead to periods of depression when i realize I am on a path where I don't want the end goal at all.

 

This is similar to my experience. I was required to do nonsense work around the house based on mums whims. I was told it was a necessary part of raising a child, otherwise I would have just grown up lazy and unable to do anything! A few years ago I lived with my parents for a couple of months while looking for a job. I was assigned a list of work to do and a timeline and when I questioned the need for it, I was blamed for treating the house 'like a hotel' and not being 'normal'. I wanted to ask which hotel requires clients to work for them but didn't dare to. I didn't stay for much longer after this.

 

Intellectually I know my parents weren't good people and I know there's no other way but to defoo, but emotionally it is very difficult and I don't quite understand why. Nothing's really changed in my life as a result. I actually feel I've gained a lot, my self worth and freedom. But I feel I'm grieving and I'm not sure what. The loss of the people who hurt me? 

[Wesley]

Intellectually I know my parents weren't good people and I know there's no other way but to defoo, but emotionally it is very difficult and I don't quite understand why. Nothing's really changed in my life as a result. I actually feel I've gained a lot, my self worth and freedom. But I feel I'm grieving and I'm not sure what. The loss of the people who hurt me? 

 

No. You do not grieve them, you grieve what you didn't have. If you had amazing parents, then you would not be forced into this decision. How much healthier and happier would you be?

 

My experience was that I spent a lot of time grieving what could have been. That I had to make this terrible decision. A good amount of anger also came during this time. It is a terrible situation and a terrible decision that needed to be made. I am sorry that you had to do make it.

[PatrickC]

Intellectually I know my parents weren't good people and I know there's no other way but to defoo, but emotionally it is very difficult and I don't quite understand why. Nothing's really changed in my life as a result. I actually feel I've gained a lot, my self worth and freedom. But I feel I'm grieving and I'm not sure what. The loss of the people who hurt me? 

 

 

Very sorry to hear your mother completely evaded any responsibility for her past actions and indeed that your father had nothing to say. There certainly can be a bitter sweet feeling in those revelations.

 

In my experience 'deFOO' is often a long process, even after the initial decision has been taken. It can be drawn out over many months and sometimes years. I personally only found it possible with a therapist. If you aren't with one now, I would particularly recommend it, because you are likely to find yourself feeling quite vulnerable at this time. Remember it's not really you that deFOOs them, it's them that have deFOO'ed you. Whilst it's true that you took that decision independently of them. Your challenge to them to have a deeper and more sustainable relationship with you has been rejected (at least for now). Being rejected by ones parents has a deeply emotional impact on children, even as adults. That rejection will upset parts of you enormously and may well need help coming to terms with the situation.

 

On a practical note I set aside an hour each morning when I would take a walk through my local park and would do a voice journal where I attempted to understand what was going on for me. I did this for almost 3 years and found it enormously insightful. But I must admit that at those crucial moments my therapist was a lifesaver for me, when sometimes things could become overwhelming for me.

 

Lastly, one thing to be aware of in all this, which I've discussed with quite a few people over the years including a number of trained professionals. Nobody that has taken the decision to deFOO their parents will ever quite forget them. There will always be a part of them etched in our minds. A large part of the healing process is learning how to have that relationship with them in your head. The best part about that relationship is that you get to apply reason and evidence to it. If you keep applying philosophy in your life, then you will find things becoming much easier in time. Sounds like this is a new chapter in your life, best wishes.

[meeri]

No. You do not grieve them, you grieve what you didn't have. 

Thank you Wesley, I think you're absolutely right..

 

On a practical note I set aside an hour each morning when I would take a walk through my local park and would do a voice journal where I attempted to understand what was going on for me. I did this for almost 3 years and found it enormously insightful. But I must admit that at those crucial moments my therapist was a lifesaver for me, when sometimes things could become overwhelming for me.

 

Lastly, one thing to be aware of in all this, which I've discussed with quite a few people over the years including a number of trained professionals. Nobody that has taken the decision to deFOO their parents will ever quite forget them. There will always be a part of them etched in our minds. A large part of the healing process is learning how to have that relationship with them in your head. The best part about that relationship is that you get to apply reason and evidence to it. If you keep applying philosophy in your life, then you will find things becoming much easier in time. Sounds like this is a new chapter in your life, best wishes.

Thank you for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it. I certainly feel this decision was just a beginning. I am far from having closure with my family. But I feel I am a huge step closer. I'm able to see my parents' behaviour a lot more clearly, something I was avoiding before. Like I still needed 'permission' from them to ask questions about my childhood. 

 

I agree with you about professional therapy. I have spoken to a couple of therapists and planning to start regular sessions in the next couple of weeks.

 

Sounds like you've come through this process successfully on the other side, xelent. I look forward to joining you there in a couple of years:)

[Rayakins]

I think it is very brave to be able to confront your parents at all about childhood abuse. Somehow the idea of confronting my mother about the way she treated my sister and I as children fills me with fear and guilt. We were spanked and hit with wooden spoons, sticks by both parents. My mother also had a completely uncontrollable temper and would scream, swear and abuse the rest of the family including my Dad. He passed away almost a year ago and my sister was diagnosed with lymphoma in February. In the wake of all of this I feel completely unable to talk to my mother about the abuse but filled with anger and sorrow about it.

 

Meeri I recognise the controlling tactics well - whenever I talk about being unhappy my mother steers it back to some discussion of my choices (relationship, career etc) and won't countenance any possibility she had anything to do with it. Somehow she makes me feel guilty at the same time and one of my subselves tells me I am inventing the abuse, even though my mother is quite brazen about spanking - she is open about believing in 'spare the rod, spoil the child' philosophy.

[FiddlertheLeper]

I think it is very brave to be able to confront your parents at all about childhood abuse. Somehow the idea of confronting my mother about the way she treated my sister and I as children fills me with fear and guilt. We were spanked and hit with wooden spoons, sticks by both parents. My mother also had a completely uncontrollable temper and would scream, swear and abuse the rest of the family including my Dad. He passed away almost a year ago and my sister was diagnosed with lymphoma in February. In the wake of all of this I feel completely unable to talk to my mother about the abuse but filled with anger and sorrow about it.

 

Meeri I recognise the controlling tactics well - whenever I talk about being unhappy my mother steers it back to some discussion of my choices (relationship, career etc) and won't countenance any possibility she had anything to do with it. Somehow she makes me feel guilty at the same time and one of my subselves tells me I am inventing the abuse, even though my mother is quite brazen about spanking - she is open about believing in 'spare the rod, spoil the child' philosophy.

I am very sorry that you and your sister had to go through this, and at the reaction your mother has to you bringing up your concerns with her.  It's a difficult position to be in, it sounds to me like your mother is displaying the typical response parents revert to when their parenting methods are threatened.  It's a difficult thing to be able to get past to their true feelings, my mother is very similar in this fashion, and while i have had a very shallow and small form of success in getting her to understand my position and the effects of her actions upon me (although in her mind it's still my fault for feeling this way, she just understands that certain actions she does add too or trigger these feelings in me and now does not act that way as much, not truly to protect my feelings but to protect herself from me being truthful about my feelings.) Now my advice or counsel on this subject should not be taken with anything more than a grain of salt, as i am still in practically in the same situation as you with the same problems.  I have only managed to have conversations with my mom about her current behavior and it's effects on me, and am too anxious to broaden or broach anything about the way i was treated when i was younger.  But in my experinces with my mother (relating to her current behavior) i found a couple of strategies to be useful, the first is to acknowledge that she does not conciously aim for these effects, they are unintended consequences of her lack of understanding about me as a person and the way my environment (her specifically) effects me.  The second is to not allow distractions, subject changes, passing the blame back to you, etc. i would always try and tell my mother when she would use these tactics, that if these were things that she felt it was important to discuss that was perfectly fine and i would be happy to discuss these things with her, but could she please extend the same courtesy to me about the issue we were originally talking about.  This normally required some focus and unwillingness to deviate from the topic until a real and true conversation can be had.  It's also important to let her know that this is not about blaming her (even if getting her to accept responsibility for her actions is a key part of the process) as much as it's about clearing away the rubble of a dysfunctional relationship and trying to lay some ground work for a functional one. (of course for this to have any impact she has to be willing to accept the current state of the relationship as dysfunctional, if she doesn't or won't this likely won't have much effect)  For me it came down to basically telling her, that this is how you make me feel when you do these things, this is how it affects me even when your not currently doing these things, and that if she wants me in her life she has to be willing to acknowledge these issues and at the very least show me she is making some effort to improve her actions towards me.  I don't know about you, but i desperately want to be able to love my mother as more than just a condition of my biological family, I want to be able to enjoy and look forward to spending time with her, I want to be able to talk to her without having to censor my true feelings and thoughts, and i want her to be able to enjoy these same things, but this requires work from both of us.  If she is unwilling or unable to work towards these goals, and actually take into account her effects upon me (intended or unintended) then there is little if any improvement possible.  The other aspect, which for me, has been much harder is trying to show her there are better ways for her to get the things she wants from me then the strategies she's used throughout her life.  This i have had an even smaller amount of success with than with getting her to understand the impact of her actions towards me upon my life.  For the most part she simply disregards any alternative methods as anything from ridiculous to preposterous or simply speaks about the traditional methods of doing things within a family, even when these traditional methods have produced horrendous results.  If i have any amount of success in this particular area i'll be more than happy to share my methods for achieving it, but since as of yet i have not, i don't have much to offer you here.

 I hope that some small part of my experiences can help to give you insight into ways you might deal with this situation, though in truth i expect that most of the methods i have attempted you have also attempted as these were all before i became involved in Philosophy or true Self-Knowledge seeking.  Either way i wish you success in getting past your mothers reactionary defense's and in building a healthy foundation for future healing for you, your sister, and if possible even your mother.  

 

also i would like to point out that as difficult and painful as the process might be, i am in agreement with those who advise that if no improvement or resolution between you and your mother is possible, there is no reason to continue to subject yourself to a person who refuses to take into consideration your true and honest feelings, simply because you share genetic traits. i believe the term is DeFOO, as has been said on this topic before, i do not encourage this choice unless you honestly feel you have exhausted all possibilities for repairing the relationship and given your mother every Reasonable chance to admit wrong and work towards improvement.

 

I hope some of the more knowledgeable members of this community can provide you with better advice than my poor pittance, as there are those out there who have managed to find success in this most difficult situation. Best of luck to you, and if you ever feel the need to talk feel free to message me here.

[MysterionMuffles]

Since you guys had that back and forth chat in this thread, I've been wanting to give my input, but I don't have anything to add but my most sincerest apologies for what you have gone through. And of course to express my pride in your choices to understand this trauma and overcome it.

Fiddler, I was resisting reading your post because the huge block without paragraph breaks, but I got over it and read it. And you have some really helpful advice that I will take to heart. I never saw it that way: getting my mother to even SEE the relationship at its present state as dysfunctional as a good starting point. Also, not making it about the blame game. She likes to transfer the blame on me when I try to call her out on her BS, so I just end up getting stuck in storytelling and the blame game because it's what I'm used to. Gotta break the damn cycle! Thanks a lot!

[FiddlertheLeper]

Since you guys had that back and forth chat in this thread, I've been wanting to give my input, but I don't have anything to add but my most sincerest apologies for what you have gone through. And of course to express my pride in your choices to understand this trauma and overcome it.

Fiddler, I was resisting reading your post because the huge block without paragraph breaks, but I got over it and read it. And you have some really helpful advice that I will take to heart. I never saw it that way: getting my mother to even SEE the relationship at its present state as dysfunctional as a good starting point. Also, not making it about the blame game. She likes to transfer the blame on me when I try to call her out on her BS, so I just end up getting stuck in storytelling and the blame game because it's what I'm used to. Gotta break the damn cycle! Thanks a lot!

Thanks, and yeah sorry about that, i need to work on my formatting, always been a problem of mine.  I hope the advice can help you make some progress, that's one of the worst feelings is the inability to even make progress.  Dealing with these kind's of issues with parent's is never easy, but our parents do love us immensely in their own ways, it's just (at least in the case of my mom) she's never really had healthy love from those in her life, so i can't expect her love for me to be entirely healthy without some work.  I hope whether this last bit applies to your mother or not, you can find a way to either get the relationship to a place your happy with (or at least not unhappy with) or can get the certainty you need to make the decision that's best for you. Good luck, and as always feel free to let us know how it's going.