Trying to figure out how to proceed from here.

[jester7707]

Hi all, 

 

Thank you for stopping in to read.

 

 

   I've recently read a conversation between my partner and her childhood friend (Don). They were discussing among other things their friend that passed away 6 months ago.  She asked Don if their deceased friend knew she loved him. I was already aware of that because she had told me about it before but, the conversation continues with Don saying that he doesn't think he knew she loved him and that Don and him both look at her like a little sister. She replied with something along the lines of " oh really? What about that one time we fooled around? You only see me as a sister?" 

 

I already knew that they had a past before our relationship.

 

Don then told her yes and that it was a mistake to do so. Her reply was " If you only look at me as a friend then we can't  do that anymore." 

 

Another comment she made later on that concernedv me was " I miss the good old days were you and said friend only talked to one girl. Me."

 

When I initially read this I was sad and aggravated. I'm not sure if I'm overreacting b ecause I do haave jealousy issues I'm working on. I would really love to hear other's take on this. 

 

Thank you for  taking the time to read. 

[Lens]

Hello Jester,

 

I am sorry you feel that way, my god I used to feel that way whenever my ex discussed stuff with old relationships and it is painful!!!

 

What it triggered in me was feelings of rejection and shame. I think it is all about the feeling of self worth. You may feel threatened by this discussion, maybe it triggers in you fear of abandonment or something like that.

 

In my opinion try to see what is the feeling hiding behind jealousy. It may be Fear, Rejection, Shame etc.. and if you are idealizing these people meaning you see them worthwhile while you may see yourself not that much etc... If it is the case, it is usually an illusion of worth.

 

If you feel safe enough try to discuss it with your GF.

 

I wish you the best.

 

Lens

[Pepin]

I feel as though I am missing something. This girl is dating you? She is talking about how she loved the deceased friend? She is talking about past sex and the currently possibility of having sex with your friend Don? You are there for this conversation? Were you included in the "only one girl" part?

[jester7707]

Thank you both for the reply.

 

Lens, I do have a fear of rejection. How does one alleviate that fear though?

 

Pepin, I've been going out with her about 5 months now. She talks about how she loves her deceased friend quite often.

 

Yea that's what I got from what she said to Don,  Atleast it seems that way to me but I do have jealousy issues that at times make me see things through one lens. I'm unsure how to take what she said because of that. 

 

I was there for it but she was texting him by me. She didn't tell me what was said I looked at her phone later on and read it.

 

I was not included in the  "only one girl" part nor mentioned in any of the conversation.

[Pepin]

So it seems like you read the messages without her consent. Provided this is true, regardless of the contents of the text, I have doubts that the relationship is going to work out. Reading personal messages of your partner is a major sign that you do not trust her as well as being a major violation of privacy.

 

If you were to tell her what you did in a circumstance where you found nothing, how do you think she'd react?

[Lens]

Jester, I think there is something to learn about all this which is the unhappiness you are living that seems obvious to me.I had the same experience which I was checking out on my ex's messages because like Pepin said it is lack of trust. But I'd go beyond that and say it is also to control what is out of your control. Sometimes we just cannot let go in a way. From my experience it seems to me you want to make yourself happy out of illusion of control. By checking messages you need to know or at least confirm that she will not leave you but each time there is this urge of checking again and again. And even she gave you all the passwords of all her accounts you will still feel helpless and doubtful. It is like a drug that you need more of it each time. Each time you inhale it, it brings relief until the next craving. I believe and certain that this relationship you are in right now is taking from you what is the most precious in your life which is YOU your true self. You cannot live someone else's life you can only live yours.  And it is hard really hard when we are addicted to a person and that same person knows that well. I have been through that episode myself and it is hell on earth. You need to acknowledge to yourself the truth what ever hard it is and you start from there. I only did what I did when I said to myself "I have a problem and I need to fix this as soon as possible" it is an addiction and not love at least it was that for me. I will paste a youtube video here that may help you it is about codependency. Part 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEstVPYOARA  Part 2

 

You may wanna listen to this podcast of Stefan that may help you a lot. I helped me a lot 

 

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1137_Shame_Addiction_Convo.mp3

 

 

You need courage and I think you got it.

 

Good luck 

 

Lens

[Wesley]

My idea of you how alleviate the fear of rejection is to truly love and know yourself to the greatest extent you can.

 

When you are a great and amazing person with goals and desires who you love spending time with, then you do not need to approval of others.

 

However, reaching this form of self-actualization is not an easy process and takes a lot of work in self knowledge, likely some therapy, etc.

 

I would say that trust is one of the basics of a relationship and that checking messages shows that you do not trust her (not as a fault of you, I would trust your instincts and question why you do not trust her). I would look intently at the relationship and it may be best to not continue with it without trust. I have no idea if it is possible to truly earn back trust in a relationship as it requires trust to be able to do this.

 

I am so sorry you have to deal with this situation.

[jester7707]

  Pepin, you are correct, I did go through her texts. I think it was very wrong of me to do and I have since then talked to her about it and apologized for my behavior and so did she. She didn't express to me what she felt about me going through her texts.

 

 

  Lens, I'm surprised that it is that obvious but, it is very true though. My happiness is in short supply.

What you said about the illusion of control that I seek is very spot on. I was in a relationship in the past were I felt betrayed by my partner. After that I was reading allot of her privet messages via Facebook and email but, no matter how much I read I still felt completely helpless to the situation.

 

Although I believe that I'm not as bad, I still feel the urge to do it every once in a while. I was wondering of what I should do when another urge comes on? Like for example the next time she talks to Don. I know to not give in but, should I talk to her in the moment about it or what would be a positive step?

 

 Thank you for the videos and podcast. It's much appreciated.

 

 

Wesley, Thank you for the kind words. I believe you make good points too and I think that therapy would be very beneficial for me. I am currently looking for work though and cannot afford to go. I have heard from stef that journaling and reading psychology books are helpful to prepare for therapy. Are there other forms of self-help that would be beneficial to me along the way?

 

I have the same thoughts cross my mind for a while now. I realize the seriousness of the situation on the trust issue but, she does seem really sincere and receptive to my concerns and she would be willing to go to couples counseling to try to work it out.

[Lens]

Jester,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I think the situation is serious actually very serious in order to keep your sanity.

I am gonna tell you my experience and think about it maybe it can help you.

 

I learnt that checking out on close people to me was to check if they can do well without me or not. Like if my ex is miserable (which actually he is) then I'd feel ok and there is no need to control him (illusion of control) but when he is happy then there is a problem meaning I am useless in his life which means he can be happy without me (again control) which makes me feel unworthy. I don't know if this makes sense to you or if it is your situation.

 

I have a deep feeling that you and I have this issue in common to a certain extent but then you tell me if it is the case.

 

This mechanism (it is actually a mechanism or a symptom but looks like it is real and it is not) is hard wired to the need of a very small child the need to be seen and touched. In general  around 8 months to 14 months preverbal age (it is my case) where the baby is being left alone in the crib or the playpen and the mother is very busy and she doesn't want to take care of the baby and actually she consider him a nuisance rather than a normal needy child, the child then he is battling with fear of abandonment (fear of death) because his brain still not formed and doesn't know things like kitchen or mom is doing laundry or any of that stuff he has only his "primal" needs. In that case that is trauma and also a development of the codependency and fear of rejection the child will please his mom, he will start to smile (false self) while his true feelings are despair, terror and anger (true self). This happens a lot when the mother is borderline and narcissistic meaning that everything is about her. It is very difficult for a child to thrive in that environment. The toddler suppresses his true feelings and needs again his true self which protects him from being hurt by overwhelming feelings of the trauma of fear of death and also from really dying. But these feelings arise from the deep when they get triggered even 50 years after the original trauma.

 

I quote Stefan from his book On Truth the Tyranny of Illusion Page 51

 

If the man in the meadow were put into his cage when he was a toddler, he would have discovered the limits of his confinement – painfully – when he was very young. It is entirely conceivable that he would end up just avoiding his invisible prison bars, to retain his illusion of freedom, and repress the pain of imprisonment. If you cannot escape your prison, then you might as well imagine that you’re free. 

 

 

Now in your case there is a decision to make if you want to continue to stay with this person because in my point of view she a symptom to a deeper problem and maybe all your past relationships are based on fear of abandonment and rejection (shame based feelings).

Do what you can to save your life and your future and get out of this prison. Because the compulsion to sneak on your girlfriend is to avoid the feelings of your childhood pain which I understand they are overwhelming that possibly why you self medicate them each time the pain arises so you do not have to feel it and you do what you have to do to push them down. There absolutely no shame in doing that but it is not something that makes you happy and free.

 

I quote Stefan Molyneux RTR page 84

 

Were you rejected as a child? Beware your desire for rejection.

Were you verbally abused as a child? Watch out for verbally abusive people: they will inject you with addictive endorphins.

Were you sexually abused as a child? Watch out for predators: they will tempt you with the self-medication of surviving them.

 

 

 

I think therapy is urgent for you and ask your therapist about his childhood if he also suffered from abandonment and how did he fix his issues and does he understand childhood trauma. Because if your therapist didn't face his own childhood he will not let you do it because you trigger his own repressed feelings and he can become mean to you and can even guilt you.

 

I empathize with you to a very high level and If my message triggers fear in you it is normal and you do not need to be afraid of that feeling. When you are afraid say to yourself "I feel fear" instead of I am afraid so you can stay present to your feelings without judging them and you can distance yourself to look at them in a better way.

 

I hope what I said is useful for you and like Stefan says it is my point of view and also my experience. Sorry for the length of my message.

 

Useful article that helped me a lot : http://www.findingstone.com/professionals/monographs/rageshameandthedeathoflove.htm

 

Lens

 

[jester7707]

Lens, Thank you sharing your insight and all of the kind words. It is very helpful and very scary to read at the same time but, I believe you are right. I do derive pleasure from seeing that my exes are worse off without me. I feel shameful for feeling that way.I had a chat with stef recently and I believe there is some correlation with what you said about my fear of abandonment and rejection. If you want to check it out the link is here: 

 

Edit: The link is no longer active I believe they may be publishing it as a podcast soon. Not sure but, I'll post it here if they do. Sorry about that.

[Lens]

Hi Jester,

 

I downloaded the podcast from the link you posted and listened to it and it was helpful to me too. I liked it a lot. I find it very courageous from you to talk about your issues in public.

 

The fear when those feelings arise is frightening in itself. The pain may be sometimes overwhelming but it fades away once you begin to learn to not to be afraid of your fear.

 

Your therapist can provide with a safe environment and help you to get in touch with those feelings and little by little.

 

I hope everything will go well for you and good luck in making your own choices and living your own life it is not easy but it brings peace at the end. 

 

In a way the war inside of us will end. We will no longer fight ourselves for survival.

 

Lens