LovePrevails Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I'm having a friend saying "you can leave" - I can't be bothered going over the same arguments again plus I might not be as elloquent or remember all the counters. can you point me to the right videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh F Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 it would be cool to run a libertarian internet bot, it just searches cliches and responds with a calm and empathic response. Think of all the time we could save! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 How about responding to him by saying that he should never complain about life ever, because he is free to leave his own life by killing himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovePrevails Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 I would but he never used the "if you don't vote you have no right to complain" line he used the "if you don't like the rules of the society you can leave" it's sort of like implicit contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Well, there was a time when women couldn't vote. Those were the rules. Would it have been reasonable to ask them to get up and make a mass exodus out of the country? What about the abolitionist during slavery? They certainly thought the "rules" we're immoral. The civil rights movement? The list goes on and on. Anyone who makes a statement like that doesn't really think too much. Why don't you propose the following question: How would any organized society exist without people who wanted to change the rules first? I mean, there has clearly been a lot of rule changing since the Stone Age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovePrevails Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 thanks, although he didn't say you're not allowed to want to change the rules, just that if you didn''t like the overall situation you could leave therefor it was voluntary, and he intended to do so himself in a few years because he doesn't like the way the country is going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Oh. I see. Social contract thing. Just tell him that there is no where else for him to go. The state is everywhere. The only way to get out of the terms of the "contract" is to die. If you do want to discuss this idea of a contract with him, then you can start by telling him that there is no contract. There was never a contract from the beginning. It's as mythological as the concept of god. There were just people who used force to get things done the way they wanted. For example, not everybody in the states in the late 18th century wanted to be independent from Britain. Only the wealthy elite. In fact, independence made life worse for everybody in the colonies except the gentry. The Indians got massacred. Slavery was increased farther south and west. And, the lower classes got the shit taxed of them. What a shit contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlip Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just tell him that it is not free. You can't just go live in the woods, if you're caught you will be arrested for trespassing, poaching, and a myriad of other wildlife violations. So no you're not free. And you can't just leave because of boarder guards in other countries. The argument is an emotional one adopted from and used by teachers, usually, who know full well you can't just quit school until a certain age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeRandom Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 it would be cool to run a libertarian internet bot, it just searches cliches and responds with a calm and empathic response. Think of all the time we could save! Love this idea. Include keywords like Somalia, roads, healthcare, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Existing Alternatives Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Have you seen this thread? It might be helpful. To be fair, I am yet to come across a strong response to this. So far, the strongest ones were something along the lines of “Go where? State is everywhere” and “You have the right and moral responsibility to change your environment for better” (the abolitionists’ argument). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh F Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Love this idea. Include keywords like Somalia, roads, healthcare, etc. exactly, and respond with Molyneux esqe sympathetic and rational answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magenta Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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