Flirting and the NAP

[Mishelle]

You're welcome, and thanks for the chat, I'm glad to learn more about you!  I really understand now and like your idea to start fresh.

 

 And as for the "sealing the deal" kind of move that takes the flirt to the next level, I think sincerity is the way to go, and you seem genuine and communicative so I think you will be inspired in the moment and it will feel more natural than maybe you can imagine right now.

 

In my case, I was not initially attracted to my now-hubby, and was not looking at all, and had just gotten out of a bad relationship of 2 years with a complete narcissist, so the timing was not good and I was in a rather dense place.  Still, he got through to me quickly.  We chatted a couple of times and then he said very directly but kindly, when I was evading him a bit:  "I'd like to get to know you better."  Of course, I knew this, he'd already asked me out and I'd said yes, but just hadn't found the time yet.  (We were in Thailand, I was on a work assignment).

 

I still wasn't that attracted to him, I felt he was too "conservative" for me, too square, I was kind of a wild child back then  He was a nice guy, attractive, but not for me.  Then he took me out a few times and by date #3 I was smitten against the odds.  

 

Here's how it happened, this simple: 1.  To get to the restaurant I had to sit behind him on the motorbike and my body responded and I was like, oohhh, wow, he's pretty hunky, I did not notice this before.  2.  He made a huge gesture on date #3--went to a very nice restaurant in advance, ordered special dinners with the chef, reserved the best table, really made a big effort for no other reason than to impress me. I was very impressed.  3.  He asked me to stay with him in Thailand after my assignment was over and I said no, so then he changed his entire plan (back then he spent 6 mo in SE Asia/6 mo working in Alaska for many years) and a couple months later showed up at my door where I was temporarily living in a trailer park in rural Arkansas--now that's a grand gesture!  I thought, this guy is for real, grow up girl and get with the program.  And so began our lovely romance that has become a deep and stable partnership of now 10 years.

 

So I share my little story because I think it demonstrates how love happens, it's so not complicated--not by a plan, not through fancy moves, and with authenticity, sincerity, humility, courage, a sense of adventure and just making a woman feel truly valued for no other reason than that she exists--these things are priceless and irreplaceable.  

 

And just for the record so this doesn't sound like some fairy tale, we work at it.  imho, the entire culture has intimacy issues, and in marriage those get painfully highlighted or buried with disastrous consequences.

 

Good luck and I hope you'll share more as you move forward in this exciting time!

[MysterionMuffles]

Damn that is so cute and inspiring. He really went through those great lengths to prove how much he wanted to be with you? Did you not at all feel put off by his dedication, or was that dedication complete satisfaction and complimentary to you? Like are you used to that kind of treatment, or was it so new that you couldn't help but fall in love with the man? I think you struck a chord with me when you said:

it's so not complicated--not by a plan, not through fancy moves, and with authenticity, sincerity, humility, courage, a sense of adventure and just making a woman feel truly valued for no other reason than that she exists--these things are priceless and irreplaceable.  

 

That moved me. This is what I feel right now: one of the strongest urges to find a woman for that very same reason. For her and for me to feel valued for simply existing, for being who we are. To be understood and to be understanding because I feel like I've had so much love inside me locked away that I cannot deal with the loneliness of not having someone to share it with. I don't know why I started to cry finishing that sentence, and out of all the things I've ranted about in the forum, that was the first thing to really hit me deeply.  

 

I am really thankful for your participation in this thread, Mishelle.

 

Are you familiar with Stef's idea of the Mecosystem/Internal Family Systems? That we as individuals consist of a mulitiplicity of subpersonalities? I am willing to share more about my ponderings of love and romance, but I don't want to overwhelm you with something you may not be familiar with.

[MysterionMuffles]

I ask this because I had a revelation about my love life while using that methodology for introspection.

[Mishelle]

Hi!  I would love to hear about your love life revelation!!

I'm glad the story sounded cute to you and not cheesey  Because actually after I wrote it I wondered about how it would be received in this circle of highly rational people.  I am still reading and listening through all Stef's work, so I don't know a lot, but am pretty familiar with the gist of it all, and just need it to sink in more so I truly absorb it and learn to talk about it with others. The Mecosystem stuff in particular seems so relevant and such a great path to healing in our world.

 

I thought later about that same line you quoted---"hmmm, does that kinda go against Stef's teachings on true love as a result of ethics?  But you also resonated with that desire to be loved just because you exist, right?  It's like, I didn't have to "DO" anything for his love, and this felt quite extraordinary to me.  On the other hand, he did have to do something in a way, he had to "woo" me a bit.  Does that seem a bit unfair?  As for the ethics part, that did eventually play into it all, very much so--I fell for him because he is a "good" person, deep level of integrity and commitment, a man of his word, remarkably consistent, so different from my father.

 

 Anyway, I guess I felt some ambivalence after I wrote that because initially, I truly believe, there's got to be some kind of physical chemistry with each other, something that feels like it's magnetically drawing you both in, otherwise I think the relative inertia and/or chaos of existence would get in the way of even exploring someone's virtue, ya know?

 

OK, your ponderings, do tell . . .!

[MysterionMuffles]

I would only find it unfair if you wouldn't reciprocate, or worse, down right reject him and he kept trying lol.

 

My IFS revelation was recognizing that I had a girlfriend part living inside of me. Yeah I know, que in the foreveralone jokes but I found it very helpful to access this fictional woman that lives in my psyche.

 

Before I ever had real life girlfriends, I used to fantasize about what kind of girl I would be with, and that manifested my girlfriend part. She embodied whatever current preferences I had for women in terms of looks and personality. In my journalling, I came to understand that this part developed in me as a tool to self soothe. Being neglected by my mother for most of my life, and sometimes downright rejected, I invented this girlfriend part I can access in my day dreams or nights of insomnia, to envsion my self being caressed lovingly in her arms. It's a weird conundrum, but she trippled as a maternal replacement, a romantic fantasy, and a sexual fantasy. Not sure if it's significant to separate them.

 

In my senior years of high school, that's when the flings stopped and I started dating for the purpose of having long term relationships. So out with the flings, and actually out with a girlfriend part because some of her traits were embodied in the 3 women I dated. Not all of her traits were contained into one, more like spread out amongst them. Due to my low level of confidence and self respect at the time, my standard for romantic partners was low and so the quality of my relationships were also quite low. I don't feel comfortable sharing the details on that because it feels so foreign to me now. So I'll just continue with the revelation.

 

After the 3rd woman and I broke up after a 2 year relationship (a year and a half was official, while the last few months were just fooling around in denial about what we truly want in life), that girlfriend part started to seep back into my psyche. I used to be haunted by it and feel worse about my self for having to resort to this fantasy.

 

But then I learned the importance of her existence in my psyche. Despite of all the manifestations she has taken over the years, she has always played the same role. She's someone I can drift off to and fantasize about to picture my self being a good boyfriend to. The only difference now is, my focus is on her virtues and how openly we can communicate, whereas before I ever got involved with women, she was just mind's eye candy for me to get off from. 

 

I surmised that I invented her as a way to create a template for what I would like in a woman. I even let her take hold of the pen for most of my journal entry, and she assured me that she will be there for as long as I need her, but her main job is to make her self obsolete. Little fantasy role plays of me being a great guy and whatnot, that, I think, is preparation for when I'm ready for the real thing. She even said that whoever I meet and date in the future may not even be exactly as I would want her, maybe even better, but never ever worse because the time I've spent on self knowledge has only raised my standard for love so much higher.

 

Anyways, I hope this makes sense and doesn't seem like a destructive part to have in my psyche. Like I may get too lost into the fantasy that I would settle for it more than any real romantic interactions. Sure as hell doesn't seem like it to me as I have grown comfortable around women the past 6 years, and have started seeing them more than just potential sexual partners. Respecting them for who they are without any intended goal of sex has given me so much more perspective on their true value.

[Mishelle]

Hi MCS, I'm sorry for my delay in responding!  It is really about nothing else than I never saw it, because sometimes I'm getting lost in these forums.

 

I wish I had some kind of expertise to offer after reading so much that I can relate to in your share.  Honestly, the lines between fantasy and reality often baffle me, and I've come to accept that and even appreciate it, and dedicate its expression in a few creative endeavors that really benefit from this part of me.  i really don't know if it's normal or not, or at what point it becomes a kind of pathology.  I can tell you I've designed my entire life around these aspects of me, for better or worse.  But, I say for better, because I'm profoundly satisfied at this stage in my life.  I don't think that's exactly the same thing as happy 

 

There's a saying in Czech that translates like: If you want to know all women, know one profoundly.  I think it's normal at a young age (meaning even into 20s and into 30s!) that the seeming solution to problems that arise from a need for evolution in a relationship or individually result in this instinct to look outward, which is probably good, initially.  It's when you start to see a pattern arise, or when you feel a general dis-ease and lack of knowing how to move forward that the inward dive that is required.  So from what you write here, I see nothing at all unhealthy, and this persona you've created seems rational and balanced!  

 

There must be a dream before there can be a reality.  It's just when you start replacing the dream with the reality that you know something must be off.  Do you feel like this fantasy disrupts your reality, or gives you the power to raise the bar in your life and relationships?