About to Become College Engineering Dropout

[Panoptic]

Hey guys. I guess I’m looking for some advice. I can’t figure out if I’m doing something wrong or if I’m headed down an inevitable path that may be for the better. Either way, if I do end up dropping out I’m not 100% sure what I’ll do. I’m not looking for sympathy either. I’m seriously trying to figure out how to fix my issues. I’ll start off with my super shortened story (lol, it ended up being long).

 

I’m in my 4^th year of college as an electrical engineering student. If I continue it’ll take me another 1.5 years to graduate (after finishing this 4^th year). I have no friends, not even a single person to talk to about life. I am 100% dependent on my parents. I’ve never received a scholarship; my parents have already taken out $60,000 in loans which I’ll end up having to pay (if I choose to finish it’ll be around $80,000). Of course, as an electrical engineer, even that much debt shouldn’t be the end of the world, but my problem is a bit bigger than that.

 

The reason I’m so far behind is because in my 5^th semester of college I got totally burnt out. I got sick of the endless routine, get up, go to school, sit in class, study my ass off, then do horrible on the tests anyway, for 2 years straight. No engagement, no fun, no friends, and no real experience. My GPA after my second year was an acceptable 3.1, then for that semester I got a 0.8 GPA after failing 2 classes for the first time in my life, and getting a D and a C.  Since then, I’ve tried and failed at attempting to raise my GPA back up. It wasn’t high enough to continue into my upper level courses, so the college is currently stopping me from advancing until I get my GPA up. I currently have to retake one class and take two other math classes that I would not have had to take if I was able to continue. Unfortunately, the class I have to retake is the one I failed because I forgot all of the basics from the prerequisite class and now I’m retaking it another year later where I remember even less. This is probably my last chance before they dismiss me from the college.

 

My problem is that I can’t find the motivation any more. Even though my future is in the balance I just don’t care about school. It seems like after I burnt out, my motivation left for good. I feel apathetic towards it. I mean, I’m not apathetic about my future, but about school. Sometimes I imagine how cool it would be to just live my life 100% independent, even if it’s in a crappy apartment with a job that maybe doesn’t pay too well but is at least stable. I want to be free from this. I want to figure out everything for myself.

 

I am 100% aware of the state of our education system in the U.S. After looking up some articles on the matter, about 60% of students that start off in S.T.E.M. majors either change majors or drop out of school, simply because they are “bored”. I know how that feels.

 

Of course, there’s always more to the story. I try to talk to my parents about my worries, but they are always in denial that I am in trouble. They tell me everything is fine and that it will always work out in the end. I tell them my backup plans and they tell me to stop worrying about that. It’s strange now that I think about it. I’ve always been brought up with them telling me that they have everything taken care of, everything is fine, and I get some sort of guilt when they don’t approve of something I want to do. When they do approve, I get ecstatic, like I finally have a chance to do what I choose. But that is rare.

 

I have a backup plan to become an electrician, but I am afraid to talk to them about it. They’ll start saying that they thought I wanted to be an electrical engineer and how I’m throwing it all away. I do want to become an engineer, but my situation is bleak. They don’t seem to understand. I would love to become an electrician though. It is far more hands on and it seems pretty damn fun. But even I am afraid to implement the backup plan. I’ve never had much responsibility in my life so I’m afraid of how difficult it will be, especially when I have so much debt to worry about and knowing that my pay won’t be anywhere near what it could have been if I became an engineer. I will also consider myself a failure. I’ve never completed anything in my life (high school doesn’t count for anything). I even realized this back when I was graduating high school. I remember sitting in my chair that night at the ceremony listing to the speaker and thinking how I wasted the past 4 years of my life doing nothing. I didn’t even want to be there, completing high school means nothing. I wanted to change it when I got to college, get good grades, become successful in clubs, have a bunch of close friends, and I was so determined to do so, but the past was here to stay.

 

What do you all think? Am I doing something wrong? Should I be worried? Sorry if the topic seems confused, because I am confused. I’m just stressed out and am having trouble figuring out what’s going on internally. I’m not sure what to think. It seems like my parents aren't helping me at all, but I don't want to just blame everything on them. I had the chance to figure out what I wanted to do before high school ended, but I never took the time to do so.

[masonman]

I'm an EE student (3rd year now), I made a thread a long time ago about my issues (here: http://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/33822-what-the-hell-am-i-doing-ramble-ramble-ramble/)A lot of your story reminds me a LOT about myself. However now I am thinking along a bit different lines than I was back then."I have no friends, not even a single person to talk to about life"I have one friend (who dropped out) here, but I never talk to him about these things for the most part. I remember I never felt lonely until I came to college, even though I was just as isolated at home. Do you feel like you are missing something significant (in terms of helping yourself) by not having friends in college? (I'm still working on my own answer for that question. I think there really is something to value in solitude)"I am 100% dependent on my parents"Me too, I feel super guilty every day about it. I don't buy new clothes or really anything (I buy maybe four or five non food items a year). Last year this guilt made me feel extreme pressure when studying, like I felt like the money price of every math problem I was doing was weighing me down until I just became a static mess that didn't do anything because I was so sick of how it felt."I try to talk to my parents about my worries, but they are always in denial that I am in trouble"In your past have they shown more empathy with different problems you were having?"about 60% of students that start off in S.T.E.M. majors either change majors or drop out of school"I started reading LOTS of articles like this a long time ago, also posts from engineers talking about how they are giving up, or they worked for 20 years and just got laid off, etc. it pretty much sparked my depression, with other problems acting as the "fuel." Then I came to understand that what matters is what I do, not how other people are faring. Backup plans are a very good idea, though."I will also consider myself a failure"Will you? Or will you consider yourself a failure to other people? As in, will you only feel like a failure because everybody else sort of makes you feel that way? I have always had a problem in that I see my value as a person defined by certain people, and I realized that is why I felt like shit every time I did homework or was working on an exam, and why I did so badly. I was utterly TERRIFIED of messing up and looking like a failure to them. (It definitely clicked with me watching Stefs video on procastination and reading this http://www.raptitude.com/2011/05/procrastination-is-not-laziness/"I wanted to change it when I got to college, get good grades, become successful in clubs, have a bunch of close friends, and I was so determined to do so"One of the first things I came to learn in college is that, suprisingly, the people in college are the people who graduated from high school. There is just a higher IQ/financial cut-off point. I also found it is not too hard to just go to one of the hundreds of gatherings they have all the time. Though pretty soon I got bored of it and stopped going."Am I doing something wrong?"This is one of those "compared to what?" kind of questions. Just like success and failure, you define for yourself what wrong and right is."Should I be worried?"What do you want out of life? Because if you are attached to a concept in your mind that you want to live up to, and you truly believe you wont be able to live up to it, then why are you worried about it? At some point you choose to give up the controls in order to seek different ones."I’m just stressed out and am having trouble figuring out what’s going on internally"From what I've observed, there seems to be three big things that help you through the maze of your own mind: daily journaling, therapy, and mindfulness meditation. I wont claim to be an expert in this area, this is just what I have heard, I half-heartedly do two of them.

[Magenta]

Have you considered seeing a therapist?

[Panoptic]

Thank you for the extensive answer, I really appreciate it. I'm beginning to make some connections that I could not figure out before. Here is what I think, I still have a lot to think about though. My response is long. I don't expect you to read all of it, but just writing it out helped me a lot which is what's important.

 

 

I have one friend (who dropped out) here, but I never talk to him about these things for the most part. I remember I never felt lonely until I came to college, even though I was just as isolated at home. Do you feel like you are missing something significant (in terms of helping yourself) by not having friends in college? (I'm still working on my own answer for that question. I think there really is something to value in solitude)

I think its important to be alone sometimes but I couldn't imagine going my whole life with nobody to talk to and be friends with. I had "friends" in high school, more like buddies. I think a friend is more than that. But I still don't know what a friend should be. It seems like I go through most of the semester alone, tending to stay away from people and being fine with it, but every now and then these depressing and lonely feelings arise and I feel as if I've missed out on so much. I question whether or not I can ever find a woman to love and marry if I don't even know what its like to have real friends. But that's a topic I was going to write for another thread soon probably. I think I get what you're saying though. Living my life in solitude allows me to think far more clearly and I have more time to think about my own issues and life. No distractions.

 

In your past have they shown more empathy with different problems you were having?

My parents have always tended to tell me not to worry about things. I can't remember a single time where I had a real, engaged conversation with them about any issue. Our family relationship has always been extremely shallow. My parents moved away from my extended family before I was born so I have no relationship with any of my extended family at all (although I see some of them sometimes). There is no communication in the family other than letting each other know what we are doing. Its cooperative; we simply do what needs to get done and nothing more. No real personal communication at all. I feel quite empty inside, a lot of the time I have no emotion to anything happening around me. That has begun to change though, very slowly.

 

Will you? Or will you consider yourself a failure to other people? As in, will you only feel like a failure because everybody else sort of makes you feel that way? I have always had a problem in that I see my value as a person defined by certain people, and I realized that is why I felt like shit every time I did homework or was working on an exam, and why I did so badly. I was utterly TERRIFIED of messing up and looking like a failure to them. (It definitely clicked with me watching Stefs video on procastination and reading this http://www.raptitude.com/2011/05/procrastination-is-not-laziness/

 

I think the mention of procrastination is actually quite true. This is how I see my problem after more thought. I really do want to become an engineer but my parents also happen to want me to do so. I decided that I wanted to go to college, which they also wanted me to do. Then I decided to become an engineer and they were very happy about that (thus they wanted me to do it). So since I have procrastination problems, whenever I screw something up my parents get upset with me and I begin to see it as a flaw in myself. This causes me to procrastinate even more. This cycle begins to rip apart my original ambition to become an engineer since it now seems like other people want me to do it. I then begin to question if I even wanted it in the first place. I start to believe that I didn’t, even though I did. I then begin to consider other things to do, almost as an act of passive resistance to my parents. I tell myself that I would much rather do something else like joining the military, changing majors, and now becoming an electrician. Although these things truly seemed fun to me at the time, my original ambition was being an engineer.

 

At the same time, I begin to wonder why I even wanted to become an engineer in the first place. What were my motives behind it deep down? Something for me to think about...

 

My issue consists of two parts, an internal part and a practical part. The internal part is about gaining self-knowledge, but the practical part involves what I should actually do with my situation. Gaining self-knowledge is obviously important, but it won’t change the fact that I am in a desperate situation with my grades. My procrastination problems have led up to this, and now it seems like it’s too late to fix my current situation. In other words, even if I do finally understand my reasons for wanting to become an engineer, and decide that I really do want to do it, it won’t matter anyway if I drop out. So what should I do? If I say becoming an astronaut is my dream, but I have no legs, then what is the point? I feel like dreams and ambitions are overrated. If you live your life by your values on a day-to-day basis and are happy doing so, does it really matter what I am doing? In fact, I think that is the only way to live your life. Living up to dreams and ambitions seems like nonsense for some reason. Nothing turns out the way you expect anyway. So why am I even worried about my career? Maybe it IS all just other peoples’ expectations that I’m worried about.

 

This is one of those "compared to what?" kind of questions. Just like success and failure, you define for yourself what wrong and right is.

You're right, I need to become independent.

 

What do you want out of life? Because if you are attached to a concept in your mind that you want to live up to, and you truly believe you wont be able to live up to it, then why are you worried about it? At some point you choose to give up the controls in order to seek different ones.

Sorry, I'm confused about what you are saying here. Could you explain more?

 

Have you considered seeing a therapist?

I have thought about it before, but I feel more accomplished figuring these things out on my own. Its more fun that way too!

[Waster]

Your story reminds me very much of my own story. Motivation is very important. I became depressed and decided to drop out and find a job. This went terribly slow, but i managed to find a job, i hated it in the end, the boss hated me and fired me. I learned a lot from it and found a new kind of motivation to finish my education. I never enjoyed my study so much. After my bachelor i worked in a big business for a year and hated that and now i am working at a very small company where i am really free to solve the problems i like. 

 

I dont say you should take the same path, but you need motivation to put effort in your study. Without those two, you cannot finish your study. The best kind of motivation is internal motivation, if you are genuinely interested in the subjects that are taught. With enough external motivation, because you really want to be independent, financially and physically, then you might be able to collect enough willpower to finish it. But then the goal needs to be really admirable and you need to constantly remind yourself. 

 

Reading your story, there doesnt seem to be a deep connection with your parents or other people around you. Therefore it is even more important to find and do the things you love and give value to you. Because the people around you dont bring value to your life. I am a software engineer and i get value by solving problems and being curious and understand the problems of people and shape that to a technical problem and solve that as well. I couldnt find that in my previous job. There were so many rules and contradictory tasks and i had no connection with my colleagues who had not any enthusiasm in their own work. You could talk about everything except the freaking project and organisation where you are working in. I felt a slave. I learned that i could not satisfy my desires in the big corporations. I literally had a conversation where I talked with my manager and that i had to conclude that i didnt have any choices and that my stress and unhappiness was all my problem. And he didnt show any sympathy for it or offered any kind of improvement so i left. 

 

Why i wanted to share this story is that if you finish your study, you might also come in the realm of big businesses. For me it was terrible and i really didnt see that one coming. The last thing you want is finishing your study and you arrive in the same situation you are at now. What you can do off course is investigating the kind of jobs that are interesting to you and see what the possibilities are. What kind of companies are out there. What do you need to do there? How will the stuff you learn now be useful? It might give you motivation to study or it might give you closure that you dont want to move this direction at all, so why bother studying? You need hope, you need a future. You need to develop your own goals and really desire them. That is the first step in my opinion.

I think its important to be alone sometimes but I couldn't imagine going my whole life with nobody to talk to and be friends with. I had "friends" in high school, more like buddies. I think a friend is more than that. But I still don't know what a friend should be. It seems like I go through most of the semester alone, tending to stay away from people and being fine with it, but every now and then these depressing and lonely feelings arise and I feel as if I've missed out on so much. 

 

This feels really similar to me. What i wanted to share though is that curiosity for me is what connects me to people. People like to talk about things they know about and they like. Especially if it is about topics that also interests you. I think you are a curious person to. It is always the one to one conversations that gives me the most joy and that are the deepest and gives the most connection on intellectual and emotional level. And by being curious you also quickly find out the really shallow people. Isnt just half the world so shallow that you cannot have a deep conversation with them? And then we have all these kind of stories and jokes and pranks and achievements to fake a kind of connection. Maybe that is why i am so alone. I dont like that world. 

[Existing Alternatives]

In Economics there is this concept of sunk costs. It basically refers to the fact that the amount of money you already sunk into the project is really irrelevant to the decisions you make now. If EE does not work for you, whether or not you’d get stuck with $60k debt should not have any bearing on your future course.

 

At the same time, having spent countless years in school, I can attest that it could become boring and unrewarding after a while. In my outside view, engineering in general is one of those “neutral” disciplines that rely mainly on facts and science without many moral biases. Also, it pays quite well at the end. I would advocate “sticking with it”. But before you make a decision, you should really examine where this apathy is coming from – you could be just burning out, or you really don’t feel for electricity. Burn-outs are actually quite common in any field and should be examined just as such, and not necessarily as a sign for need for change.

 

Could you take another semester off and do some introspection? See a therapist, travel the world, work as an electrician?

[Magnus]

There are several elements in your post that indicate depression.  The lack of career motivation and social isolation are huge red flags. 

 

I've been there.  I've flunked out of school.  I went back after a year off, in a field I chose for myself, and I did extremely well.  It is possible to turn things around. 

 

I would strongly suggest that you make your physical fitness a top prioroty.  Don't make the mistake I did of assuming that you need to change your mindset first, before you can muster the will to start exercising.  It doesn't work that way.  Motivation is a product of your physical body as of your thinking and life circumstances.  Your brain is made of meat.  It is not an abstraction. It is physical, and therefore has physical needs to run properly.  Your brain's functioning is directly affected by the proteins floating through your bloodstream, which are in turn affected by the metabolic demands of your trillions of cells. You can't improve that metabolic system merely by changing your thoughts. 

 

If you try to improve your life by STARTING with a focus on better nutrition and exercise, then an improved mindset will follow.  Your mood will improve, your thinking will be clearer, your confidence and optimism will improve, etc. 

In other words, I would urge you to consider the possiblity that some of your negative thoughts and feelings might be the product of your physical state -- your hormones and metabolism and micronutrients.

 

This is especially true for men, since our mental health depends directly on our bodies' use and production of testosterone. But it's inhibited by excessive weight, inactivity and sugar intake.

 

If you are largely sedentary, then even a small amount to regular exercise would probably make a huge difference for you. Walking briskly for 30 minutes every day, for example.  Aim to break a sweat 6 days a week.

 

Also, take a hard, honest look at your diet -- what is the worst part of it? Sugar? Large meals or grazing all day? Processed foods?  A lack of micronutrients?  Don't try to change it all overnight. Just pick one thing you can improve, and start there. 

What about sleep? Any bad habits there? 

What about substance abuse and toxins -- alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, or other drugs?

Focus on improving one thing in each of these 4 areas (nutrition, exercise, sleep and toxins), and improve those 4 small things, I guarantee that your mental and emotional state will start to improve, too. 

 

After a few days or weeks of consistent improvement, the problems you're having with school and parents may seem easier to solve. 

[Panoptic]

I had some more time to think. Its amazing how much self knowledge you can gain so quickly if you are just honest with yourself.

 

There's so many questions you guys brought up for me to think about, why I feel so apathetic, if I even want to be in this field, how should I define success for myself. I thought about why I wanted to do engineering in the first place, because it had a lot of science and math, and I wanted to be intelligent. Eventually I had to choose a field within engr, and so I talked to my dad. He was heavily biased towards EE because he works in the power generation industry. He even took me to his work and set up meetings with some of the managers there where they all "talked" to me about doing EE (more like convinced me). They all said the same thing, EE pays well, you'll always have a job, and the field will need more people in the coming years. My decision then was based on this. I wanted to be successful, intelligent, and to make my parents proud. I now know that how my parents feel is irrelevant.

 

So then I thought about why I wanted success and intelligence. I think I really just wanted to impress other people. I'm not 100% sure why I wanted that, but I think its related to my procrastination. I read that article on procrastination that masonman provided. It generally comes from others placing expectations on you and you feeling bad about yourself if you can't meet these. My parents never expected me or forced me to do anything until college. It wasn't until high school ended where I realized that I had done nothing successful in high school and felt guilty. I think that original sense of guilt came from societal expectations that I did not meet. I then put high expectations on myself to do better in college. These expectations where so high that I wasn't able to change my life that quickly and failed to meet them, which in turn caused me to heavily attack myself at the end of the year. It got worse every year since.

 

All I know is, the reasons I wanted to do EE did not include "its something that would be fun", because I still don't know what EEs really do. I'm sure this is what causes my apathy for school deep down, because I don't really understand what they do.

 

I actually "tried" to take a break from school when I first burned out but my parents found it unacceptable. I explained that I felt horrible that they pay for me to go to school and I just ended up failing, and that I would like to take a break. Their response was strange; they kept asking me why I would want to drop out, even though I said nothing about dropping out. I told them I would surely come back later, and they reminded me of how my cousin dropped out of college because he was getting bad grades. They said I would never come back if I give up now. So I kept going. This was their first warning of my performance, they continued to get more warnings as I attempted recovery and failed, but they seem so ignorant about my situation.

 

I think it is a very good idea to take a break though. I have looked this up before and so many people take breaks when they fail, come back and succeed in school. I would love to take a break, 3 years of doing something you're not sure of is pretty tough. I think that would be my best option. I just have to figure out how to deal with my parents reaction because they won't accept it. I may just turn around and drop all the classes I'm in if they don't accept. Anyway, no decision yet but the semester has already started so I must overcome my indecision.

 

For the workout suggestion, I thought that was extremely interesting. I have been working out on and off for the past 4 years. The last time I was really consistent with it though for more than a few months was 3 years ago. I just got back into the gym 2 weeks ago, so I will keep that in mind for motivation.

[Mac]

My goodness, my situation pretty much mirrors yours in nearly all regards. I am 22 years of age; 100% dependent on my father; have no skills to merit getting a job in any place other than some minimum wage one (I guess sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day for the past 15+ years of one's life won't help one develop many skills); spend much of my time in solitude (I claim that it is by choice, but I'm not sure if I am being honest with myself); and am currently attending undergraduate school, loathing every minute of it and doing poorly as a result.

 

The apathy towards school has reached the point to where I don't show up to any of my classes any longer and instead do my own form of learning in the library.

 

I am not sure how I want to live out my life. I mean, I know I want to live simply, so I can afford myself the latitude to learn and grow as a person--study the 7 liberal arts, develop a solid foundation of understanding in the field of philosophy, and so on. But as far as knowing how this can be done--getting out of the rat race (I'm not even sure if this is realistic)--that is wholly another issue--an issue which, should I find the answer to it, would liberate me unlike any other.

 

To say that I am confused is an understatement. Mortified may be a better word.

 

Anyway, pardon the discursive rant; I didn't mean to hijack your thread--just wanted to let you know that there are others out there in the same boat.

[Gaurav251]

My goodness, my situation pretty much mirrors yours in nearly all regards. I am 22 years of age; 100% dependent on my father; have no skills to merit getting a job in any place other than some minimum wage one (I guess sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day for the past 15+ years of one's life won't help one develop many skills); spend much of my time in solitude (I claim that it is by choice, but I'm not sure if I am being honest with myself); and am currently attending undergraduate school, loathing every minute of it and doing poorly as a result.

 

The apathy towards school has reached the point to where I don't show up to any of my classes any longer and instead do my own form of learning in the library.

 

I am not sure how I want to live out my life. I mean, I know I want to live simply, so I can afford myself the latitude to learn and grow as a person--study the 7 liberal arts, develop a solid foundation of understanding in the field of philosophy, and so on. But as far as knowing how this can be done--getting out of the rat race (I'm not even sure if this is realistic)--that is wholly another issue--an issue which, should I find the answer to it, would liberate me unlike any other.

 

To say that I am confused is an understatement. Mortified may be a better word.

 

Anyway, pardon the discursive rant; I didn't mean to hijack your thread--just wanted to let you know that there are others out there in the same boat.

 

 

This situation sounds similar to mine, I live in complete isolation and haven't had any human capital for a long while and I have just turned 19,

 

still gotta finish high school and I completely hate it even if I am taking college courses (before it was university and I thought taking college courses would be easier),

 

yet even when I am doing all of this and feeling the despair of going through it, I still don't know what I want to do in life.

[Panoptic]

Thanks for the new replies. I haven't been on here in the past few days so I'll give my situation update before I respond. I talked to my parents about my situation. Although my parents are relatively manipulative, my mother actually gave me a good suggestion. She told me to go to my advisor and see if I can switch to another major that I would enjoy more and not have to start all over again. Of course, finishing college after you're already 3 years in is probably the only good option (if you can find the motivation to do it). So I ended up switching to systems engineering. I figure I'd try something new while I'm here (systems engineering is considered to be "easy" compared to the other engr majors, so it was one of the engr majors I was able to switch into with my current GPA). It seems pretty interesting so far.

 

Let me reply to the last two comments. In the past few days I have drastically switched my mentality. Graduation is my most practical option because finishing will allow me to get a job that will pay well and keep me afloat. In terms of what I want to do though, that question is still up for grabs. It seems that most people agree that finding out what you want to do in life (as a career) is a continuous process where you keep trying new things (they say you don't know until you try it right?). Also, in this economy, a college degree is the new high school degree. I think attitude and motivation play a large part in all of this. Its difficult to force yourself through college even when you really want the end result. I'm trying to keep imagining myself graduating with a degree and getting a nicely paying job even though I have no idea what will happen. It helps with motivation. Attitude is important as well. I think you need to enjoy your life day-by-day and stop worrying so much about the future. I'm trying to stop that too. When you worry about the future you don't get anything done and end up regretting the past, then you feel like time has gone by so quickly. If you enjoy every day of your life time seems to go by much slower and is more enjoyable.

 

All of this is still controversial to me though. The question is, should we subject ourselves to this system in order to get results like everyone else or should we set ourselves apart? If I want to be an engineer but the only way to do that is to put myself through this miserable system called college, what should I do? I think many people face this question.

 

I have thought about self-education before, and I was actually thinking about making a topic on it later.

 

If anybody wants to keep talking to me you can PM me and we can chat.